Mythic Comments on Warhammer Credit Crisis

Logan Frederick

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Mythic Comments on Warhammer Credit Crisis



After accusations that contributors to Warhammer Online wouldn't be credited in the final product, Mythic Entertainment is calling out the anonymous source accusing Mythic of misconduct.

A Shacknews story stated that Mythic Entertainment, the studio behind Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, would only be listing employees [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/85785-Warhammer-Workers-Not-Credited] that stayed with the company until the end of the project.

In response, an anonymous source said that Mythic would be "dogging out many, many developers" by not crediting them in the final product.

Mark Jacobs, Vice President of Mythic and the man who previously confirmed to Shacknews the qualifications for in-game credit, wants the disgruntled source to either talk to Mythic or identify themselves publicly.

Jacobs said, "If you really think that we're doing something wrong, at least have the balls to stand up and go 'Hi, my name is so-and-so.'"

"[Leaving the person out of the credits] could be a mistake. I'm not saying it's not happening," he explained. "I just don't know who the heck this person is. So come out, stop hiding behind the anonymity of the internet and the legal shield of 'I'm going to sue EA [Mythic's parent company].'"

Jacobs believes there's a possibility the accuser left Mythic on unhappy terms. He stated, "In some of the cases that people left, some of them hadn't done a great job for us. Or some left just in a lurch. Do I feel badly for that? No, I don't feel badly at all. I'm not going to shed a single tear for any of those guys."

He went on to explain why Mythic's policy is to only include those employees still on staff at the time of launch.

"Online games are ever-changing and [have] ever-changing credits. Show me one MMOG that has been up for seven years that has kept the credits for every single person who's worked on the game as long as they've had a large team," he argued. "We have hundreds of people working on Warhammer and what's going to happen a year from now is maybe some of that team goes on to another game, and we bring in other people to replace them. And then what happens the year after that or the year after that... if we set that precedent right now, that anyone who worked on the game at any point in time is going to be in the credits, the credits will be 20 pages long within a couple of years. And nobody does that."

Simplicity, he states, is important is finishing the credit debate, which could be neverending.

"You know what, if people want to complain about credits, then how come we're not tracking the months? How come we don't have the five-star credit section for people who worked on it for three years? Then the four-star credit section and then the two-star credit," he commented. "There are so many issues with it, and we want to keep it really simple: If you're on the team when we launch, you're in the full credits section with some exceptions into the 'Special Thanks' for certain people who have left under difficult circumstances."

If the standards being set by the International Game Developers Association are enforced and finalized, Mythic would gladly follow them.

"There is no requirement [to have credits]. A lot of companies don't give any credits, but we do. If all the game companies agree on something - even internally there's no absolute plan within EA because it's up to the studios - on that day, I'll be thrilled," he concluded. "Until then, everyone who is currently at Mythic who's worked on Warhammer is going to be in the credits. And that's good enough for me."

Source: MTV Multiplayer [http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008/08/21/mythic-warhammer-credit-complaints/]

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deathyepl

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Geez, what a jerk. They screw people over, end up with egg on their face, and their response is "Oh, yeah? Well F*** YOU TOO!"
 

WNxSajuukCor

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Strange... just for fun I went over to the World of Warcraft credits page and did a copy/paste job and came up with 28 standard pages to print out. Twenty pages if you leave out the "Additional Thanks" from the crew.

Why is he worried about the length of credits again? Can't squeeze out another couple of kilobytes to show credit where it's due?
 

HSIAMetalKing

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Hah, you tell 'em, Mythic.

If I was in charge of a huge project like WAR, I would have done the same thing.

So, you leave the company like a big whiny twat and still expect for them to throw your name up on the credits? Boo fucking hoo. Get over yourself-- no one reads the credits anyway.

Not even the people that say they do.
 

Lt. Sera

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I have yet to see a game that doesn't have credits, so i don't know where he got the "A lot of companies don't give any credits" from?
 

Dyselon

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Leaving off or special-thanks-ing people who leave before the end of a project is pretty standard practice in the game industry, and I think the guy is totally right that keeping a comprehensive list of credits for an MMO is impractical at best.

No one is going to read the credits for a game unless they're in them or know someone who is, and this guy can still put WAR on his resume or whatever. This complaint is silly, and I'm glad Mythic called the dude out.
 

GothmogII

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HSIAMetalKing post=7.69338.656396 said:
Hah, you tell 'em, Mythic.

If I was in charge of a huge project like WAR, I would have done the same thing.

So, you leave the company like a big whiny twat and still expect for them to throw your name up on the credits? Boo fucking hoo. Get over yourself-- no one reads the credits anyway.

Not even the people that say they do.
Well...if they credit the VO's or the Composers I do. Or put jokes in like Fallout's 'secret' credits. Still...the guy whining about it -does- sound like a whiner....wait...
 

[email protected]

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Aug 20, 2008
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I would give credit to everybody..then just change it as they leave:D


A special thanks sections for all closed beta testers would be cool.
 

Royas

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HSIAMetalKing post=7.69338.656396 said:
Hah, you tell 'em, Mythic.

If I was in charge of a huge project like WAR, I would have done the same thing.

So, you leave the company like a big whiny twat and still expect for them to throw your name up on the credits? Boo fucking hoo. Get over yourself-- no one reads the credits anyway.

Not even the people that say they do.
I don't read the credits, but it would still be nice if they recognized the people who worked to make their game actually get out the door. Right now, we don't have any proof that this guy is any kind of "big whiny twat". For all we know, he left the project in good order, without bad feelings, having done a good job. And now, he's just angry that his efforts aren't going to be recognized. Those credits are more than just a vanity sign, they are part of your record of work and employment, especially given that most former employers won't do anything except confirm that you worked for them when called by other companies. So it can be kind of important, I would think.

And if you would have done the same thing, you'd be getting the same criticism this guy is. And given the proposed standards for giving credit, apparently most of the industry doesn't agree with either you, or Jacobs. Frankly, he's sounding like a bit of a dick in his response. His reasoning doesn't make any sense, nobody expects him to credit anyone except those involved in the actual design of the game. Obviously, you aren't going to credit people making patches and updates and such, I don't anyone credits those. So, his explanations and excuses don't wash.
 

Aeranlaes

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Jul 27, 2008
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Jacobs seems like a twat to me. While I understand to some extent, honestly - how difficult is it to credit the people who helped you make your game?
 

ElArabDeMagnifico

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Dec 20, 2007
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Even a pencil [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6vjrzUplWU] would have a years worth of credits for it.

Beta tested in a a game? Your name wasn't in the credits.

This isn't even a problem, they get their money and they have the game to add to their resume, I mean - is there anyone who reads the credits out there? Really?
 

Sigenrecht

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Mar 17, 2008
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This has no value until we see Paul backing him up on this.

Because nobody loves Jacob. Everyone loves Paul.
 

Shabubu

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Jun 5, 2007
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ElArabDeMagnifico post=7.69338.660099 said:
Even a pencil [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6vjrzUplWU] would have a years worth of credits for it.

Beta tested in a a game? Your name wasn't in the credits.

This isn't even a problem, they get their money and they have the game to add to their resume, I mean - is there anyone who reads the credits out there? Really?
When the person that is missing from the credits, wants another job - yes, being in credits can be important.

The game industry is, obviously, very tech oriented - you can just hit Mobygames [http://www.mobygames.com] and know if someone is honest on their resume. A lot of game studios no longer exist, so they don't have any sort of HR department to contact, meaning a recruiter or hiring manager has to use other methods. So, credits are almost the only way to check on someone, in this case.

Plus there is that awesome feeling of forcing your friends to watch the credits to a game they just beat, while pointing at the screen and yelling, "That's me!"

People are proud of putting their blood, sweat, and tears into a game (even shitty games) - the game having their name in it validates their work...cause, trust me, there is no other form of validation for your hard work in this industry (well, seeing the game on a shelf, is cool). The crappy paycheck, doesn't quite give you that same 'oomph'.
 

PhoenixFlame

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I have had some exposure to Mark Jacobs in the past, and if he comes off as being a dick, that's par for the course. Mark's a very passionate person in this business and he frequently posts on fansite community boards. He's to be applauded for taking time out to personally post updates to the community, something which you don't see in MMO development. However, he's extremely hypersensitive to criticism and accuses some people who don't agree with him as being trolls. I'm not surprised at his response, as it's the kind of "scorched earth" idea that assumes evil intent but is somehow validated by fans' praise. We don't know all the circumstances and this could very well be someone who legitimately left the company and simply wants or needs the credit to pursue other interests. We won't know until whoever it is steps forward.

I have a great deal of respect for Mark and for Mythic, and admittedly, I don't read all the credits, but "MMOs typically don't do x" is frankly an excuse that doesn't fly with me. Some examples include "most MMOs release incomplete", "most MMOs have bad server crashes on launch day", "most MMOs have things they can't include at release" and of course, the example on the newspost.

When someone uses that excuse with me, my first, immediate thought is that MMOs need to fix the paradigm. I'm not a developer, but I do know about technical projects, and many MMOs have simply been guilty of the same things in recent years - rushed launches, buggy products, and overpromising and underdelivering. It doesn't justify continuing the same trend, and it begs the question "so what's wrong with being innovative and doing something different from the normal and expected MMO development process?".
 

Megan Tourangbam

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Thank you for this blog post. I think it's important for people to remember this when they are commenting. I love all blog comments, and am happy to get them. But, I always respond to the ones that take the time to do it right.

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