AMD Loves DirectX After All

Andy Chalk

One Flag, One Fleet, One Cat
Nov 12, 2002
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AMD Loves DirectX After All


Richard Huddy of AMD says his comments about DirectX "getting in the way" of PC gaming performance were taken out of context, and that the company stands firmly behind Microsoft's API.

Huddy made headlines last week, at least among the hardware nerd set, when he claimed that gaming graphics on the PC are being held back by Microsoft's aged DirectX API [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/108594-AMD-Says-Long-in-the-Tooth-DirectX-is-Holding-Back-PC-Gaming]. "We often have at least ten times as much horsepower as an Xbox 360 or a PS3 in a high-end graphics card, yet it's very clear that the games don't look ten times as good," Huddy said. "To a significant extent, that's because, one way or another, for good reasons and bad - mostly good, DirectX is getting in the way."

It wasn't exactly full-out agitation for an end to DirectX but it did come across a bit like a feeler, a sort of look-around to see if anyone else was interested in signing up for the newsletter. But Huddy said in a new interview that AMD isn't looking to change the world and that ditching DirectX would really only be of benefit to "high-end gaming developers."

"It's not something most developers want," he told CRN [http://www.crn.com/news/components-peripherals/229400101/amd-re-affirms-commitment-to-micrsofts-directx-api.htm]. "If you held a vote among developers, they would go for Direct X or Open GL, because it's a great platform."

"Direct X provides a highly stable platform," he continued. "It's hard to crash a machine with Direct X, as there's lots of protection to make sure the game isn't taking down the machine, which is certainly rare especially compared to ten or fifteen years ago."

He did reiterate his opinion that modern PCs "absolutely dwarf" the Xbox 360 in terms of sheer hardware power but said that APIs and middleware have to keep up. "A game on a PC will always have a relatively thick software layer, a console does not," he explained. "We're putting a lot more horsepower at the high end. But the software layer that lies between the PC running DirectX and the game itself needs to get involved in a lot of transformation."

"Making the API go away doesn't actually mean there is no longer any API," he said. "They would take a different form."

"We're simply letting Microsoft know the feedback we get from game developers," added Neal Robinson, AMD's senior director of independent software vendor relations. "We've heard from the high-end and the low-end. The very high-end want something more in terms of performance. That's information we give to Microsoft. They've done a tremendous job continuing to innovate with Direct X. Game developers, AMD and Nvidia offer constructive feedback because we want to see them continue to innovate."


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CrystalShadow

don't upset the insane catgirl
Apr 11, 2009
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... Well, it doesn't really matter either way.

Someday I'd still like to put my little experiment to the test, which is to build a custom OS for my laptop that treats it the same way a game console is treated.

(Since it's a laptop, it has nearly static hardware components.)

Mainly, I wanted to put the notion that game consoles do more with less to the test by comparing that laptop's performance using DirectX/windows, to what it's performance would be like if it was running a game the way consoles do.

I wonder how much faster I could get it running?
 

thenumberthirteen

Unlucky for some
Dec 19, 2007
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Maybe one day we'll find a platform to really make the most of the PC hardware.

Console developers work hard to really push the system to the limits, but PC devs are hampered by all the other programs running on a PC and the varying hardware. THe PS3 is buitl on the Ge Force 7 architecture, but most new PC games don't support anything before 8.
 

Baresark

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Dec 19, 2010
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There has been a huge rash of people saying extremely stupid things, then back pedaling like mad men. Meh, think before you speak.
 

gigastar

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Sep 13, 2010
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Havent we been stuck on Directx 9.0c for some 6 years now?

I respect when something works as intended but isnt it time for a real update?
 

Zer_

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Feb 7, 2008
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gigastar said:
Havent we been stuck on Directx 9.0c for some 6 years now?

I respect when something works as intended but isnt it time for a real update?
DirectX 11 would like to have a word with you, sir.
 

gigastar

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Sep 13, 2010
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Zer_ said:
gigastar said:
Havent we been stuck on Directx 9.0c for some 6 years now?

I respect when something works as intended but isnt it time for a real update?
DirectX 11 would like to have a word with you, sir.
My mistake. I just looked back on some hard copy PC games from last years pile. All of them post-dating 2004 were Directx 9.0c minimum. Computer software isnt my forte.

I guess what i meant was why wont developers go beyond 9.0c? Surely most people have better versions now?
 

Zer_

Rocket Scientist
Feb 7, 2008
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gigastar said:
Zer_ said:
gigastar said:
Havent we been stuck on Directx 9.0c for some 6 years now?

I respect when something works as intended but isnt it time for a real update?
DirectX 11 would like to have a word with you, sir.
My mistake. I just looked back on some hard copy PC games from last years pile. All of them post-dating 2004 were Directx 9.0c minimum. Computer software isnt my forte.

I guess what i meant was why wont developers go beyond 9.0c? Surely most people have better versions now?
Consoles don't support the features found in DX11. That's the biggest factor.

Of course there is a very nice list of games that DOES support DX11. Battlefield: Bad Company 2, Battlefield 3, Metro 2033, DIRT 2, F1 2010, etc...
 

Arachon

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Jun 23, 2008
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But why DirectX? Why not OpenGL? DirectX binds developers to Microsoft, and Microsoft does not play nice. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/108791-Machinarium-Studio-Not-Interested-in-Microsoft] I can completely understand why developers are reluctant to make games for platforms other than Microsoft Windows, but why they stick to DirectX when there's an open, cross-platform (aside from the Xbox 360), equivalent API, that would make any eventual porting a lot easier, is beyond me.
 

CrystalShadow

don't upset the insane catgirl
Apr 11, 2009
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Arachon said:
But why DirectX? Why not OpenGL? DirectX binds developers to Microsoft, and Microsoft does not play nice. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/108791-Machinarium-Studio-Not-Interested-in-Microsoft] I can completely understand why developers are reluctant to make games for platforms other than Microsoft Windows, but why they stick to DirectX when there's an open, cross-platform (aside from the Xbox 360), equivalent API, that would make any eventual porting a lot easier, is beyond me.
Because OpenGL is lagging behind DirectX in features...
Because on windows, (which, let's face it, most people playing games on a PC use), the drivers for OpenGL often aren't written very well compared to their DirectX counterparts...

But... Mostly because Microsoft has been 'encouraging' windows programmers to use DirectX.
(Well, OpenGL is graphics only, so you'd end up using DirectX or something on top for other reasons.)
 

RonHiler

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Sep 16, 2004
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gigastar said:
I guess what i meant was why wont developers go beyond 9.0c? Surely most people have better versions now?
Because WinXP only supports up through DX9, and a lot of gamers still use XP. As soon as you write your game for DX10 or 11, you just lost a huge portion of your audience (the solution to that, of course, is to design your game under DX11 (for prettiest results) with software fallbacks for older versions (so it still runs under DX9), but that's pretty complicated to do).

And to answer your question, Arachon, OGL is just as bad, if not worse, as DX in terms of the problem Huddy is talking about. OGL drivers on Windows machines are typically bug-ridden horror-fests for developers (try to write a game for OGL on Windows machines and you will soon find your code has all sorts of "workarounds" for specific bugs related to specific card's drivers). That's because card manufacturers are naturally going to concentrate on the DX drivers, with OGL being an afterthought in many cases.
 

vxicepickxv

Slayer of Bothan Spies
Sep 28, 2008
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How quickly AMD forgets that they own their business to Microsoft. If it wasn't for Microsoft's brand of forcing standardization in the Personal Computer industry, most people who have one now, wouldn't be able to afford one. It's not just more common hardware driving hardware prices down. It's a set standard that had to be met, just so you could hit the market majority. It's kind of a weird little thing I know about PC history.
 

Anton P. Nym

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Sep 18, 2007
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RonHiler said:
gigastar said:
I guess what i meant was why wont developers go beyond 9.0c? Surely most people have better versions now?
Because WinXP only supports up through DX9, and a lot of gamers still use XP.
You beat me to the point I was going to make. It's not the consoles that're the problem at least in this case; it's the gamers hanging on to XP.

-- Steve
 

AndyRock

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Dec 22, 2009
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Anton P. Nym said:
RonHiler said:
gigastar said:
I guess what i meant was why wont developers go beyond 9.0c? Surely most people have better versions now?
Because WinXP only supports up through DX9, and a lot of gamers still use XP.
You beat me to the point I was going to make. It's not the consoles that're the problem at least in this case; it's the gamers hanging on to XP.

-- Steve
People still use a windows XP machine for gaming? Everyone I know that has a gaming pc, upgraded to windows 7 a long time ago.
 

Giftmacher

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Jul 22, 2008
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Not sure I see the controversy myself, AMD are right to mention Dx/OpenGL come with a performance price; that's just how it is. Huddy did follow up explaining that this was for "mostly good" reasons, so it's hardly a call to arms.

Really, aren't companies allowed to talk frankly about platform limitations? Seems a fuss over nothing to me...

-Gift
 

MrTub

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Mar 12, 2009
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AndyRock said:
Anton P. Nym said:
RonHiler said:
gigastar said:
I guess what i meant was why wont developers go beyond 9.0c? Surely most people have better versions now?
Because WinXP only supports up through DX9, and a lot of gamers still use XP.
You beat me to the point I was going to make. It's not the consoles that're the problem at least in this case; it's the gamers hanging on to XP.

-- Steve
People still use a windows XP machine for gaming? Everyone I know that has a gaming pc, upgraded to windows 7 a long time ago.
Yeah.. According to steam there is about 17% that uses xp so I doubt very much that they are holding it back.
 

Smooth Operator

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Oct 5, 2010
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Arachon said:
But why DirectX? Why not OpenGL? DirectX binds developers to Microsoft, and Microsoft does not play nice. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/108791-Machinarium-Studio-Not-Interested-in-Microsoft] I can completely understand why developers are reluctant to make games for platforms other than Microsoft Windows, but why they stick to DirectX when there's an open, cross-platform (aside from the Xbox 360), equivalent API, that would make any eventual porting a lot easier, is beyond me.
Because MS is pouring lots of money into DirectX development it is far better as an all encompassing game interface, OpenGL on the other hand has practically no funding or direct development team only a non-profit development group, and it is concentrated on graphics only.

For it to run on all platforms at the level DX does they would actually need alot more people and funds then MS invests in their thing, but noone is really willing to do that on a open source project where they wont make money back.

OT: The point Richard Huddy was trying to make all along: the overlaying API's are getting too thick, makes games easy to develop but the hardware is drowned in unnecessary work.
 

TheAngryMonkey

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Nov 18, 2009
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I can hear the phone call now:

Richard: Hello
Microsoft:"Fix that comment about us, or we will sue you out of existence."
 

ph0b0s123

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Jul 7, 2010
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From the article:

"Huddy said that for some high-end developers, developing their own API may allow them to do improve the performance of their gaming while others may see it as a different approach and a means of differentiating themselves from the competition. "The minority of developers who want a change fall into two categories: those like Dice who have highly-tuned, efficient rendering engines, and those like Crytek who are selling hardware and could differentiate themselves quite spectacularly from mainstream gaming by going around Direct X," he said. "Some may be able to do spectacularly good gaming, but for an engine vendor it might simply be a good reason to diverge over the next five years or so." "

So the company that want to go 'direct to metal' the most is the one that cannot launch a game with the latest version of directx. This to me shows how stupid and wishful thinking the original comments were from AMD.

Back peddle, back peddle!