R18+ Opponent Accuses Gamers of Using Propaganda in Rating Debate

Logan Westbrook

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Feb 21, 2008
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R18+ Opponent Accuses Gamers of Using Propaganda in Rating Debate

Gamers in Australia are apparently glossing over the dangers that an adult rating for videogames poses.

Barbara Biggins, the honorary CEO of the Australian Council on Children and the Media, has accused Australian gamers of using propaganda in the ongoing debate over the introduction of an R18+ rating for videogames, similar to the one used in rating movies.

In an article for The Drum Unleashed [http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/45770.html], a platform for debate on the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, Biggins said that the rhetoric employed by supporters of the new rating had changed recently, and now downplayed the possible negative side effects that a change in rating policy might have. "Over the past year ... the pro-R18+ lobby has argued that having such a category would provide better protection for children. The push became propaganda."

Biggins contended that rather than decrease children's exposure to violent content by limiting it to games intended for adults, it would simply allow for videogames with more extreme content. "Using the classification criteria for films," she wrote. "R18+ games would have no restrictions on themes ... Given that it's practically impossible for even the most conscientious of parents to keep their children away from exposure to portable R18+ items like DVDs and games, how can it be possibly claimed that this would be better for children?"

She said that there was mounting evidence that playing violent games had numerous negative side effects, like loss of empathy and increased risk taking, and that any ratings system for videogames had to take their interactive nature into account. She said that the logical thing to do was to wait until the Australian Law Reform Commission reviewed the entire rating system later this year. "[G]amers may rant and rave (and they do if anyone dares oppose them)," she said. "But let's take the ALRC opportunity to review the options properly, not respond to propaganda."

Biggins argument isn't an uncommon one; the idea that kids will inevitably get their hands on violent games, regardless of how they're rated is trotted out seemingly everytime [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/96194-Michael-Atkinson-Once-Again-Dismisses-Gamers] this issue is debated. It always seems like a very inconsistent viewpoint - if violent content it so harmful, then why allow it in films? - but Biggins does at least specify that it's the interactive nature of games that's the problem. It's a bit of a cheating argument though, as it can be used to counter anything the opposition might say about checks and balances to make sure that minors won't get their hands on inappropriate material, no matter how good a proposal is put forward.

Biggins isn't really characterizing gamers fairly either. This isn't about getting access to increasingly violent media; it's about not having to miss out on games, or have them heavily altered, because of an over-zealous rating board. Gamers may have changed gear from a platform of "adult rights" - the preservation of which is one aim of the Australian rating system - to a platform of "protecting children" - which is the other aim - but let's face it, it makes for a much more emotive argument. Biggins can call it propaganda if she likes, but it would be remiss of her to ignore the fact that her side does exactly the same thing.

Source: GameSpot [http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6306374.html]


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Truly-A-Lie

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Nov 14, 2009
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"R18+ Games would have no restrictions on themes..."
And? There should be no restrictions on the themes possible to tackle. You may as well have a statement that reads "R18+ games could successfully deal with the human condition if they wanted to."
 

Hungry Donner

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Mar 19, 2009
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It's true that kids may be able to get their hands on R18+ games but then it's possible for kids to get these games right now through illegal means so the argument doesn't stand up in my opinion.

Allowing for an R18+ rating would allow adults to legitimately purchase these games. While it probably makes it a bit easier for minors to get these games by their logic no R18+ media of any sort should be available. If they were honest here they would be championing sweeping prohibitions but they aren't because they know they can't succeed if they include a ban on TV, movies, etc.
 

Wicky_42

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Sep 15, 2008
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Logan Westbrook said:
"R18+ games would have no restrictions on themes ... Given that it's practically impossible for even the most conscientious of parents to keep their children away from exposure to portable R18+ items like DVDs and games, how can it be possibly claimed that this would be better for children?"
Does that mean she's advocating removing the R18+ rating for other media as well - because, you know, [/i]think of the children?

No, because then Australia would miss out on a whole load of worthy cinematic material. Oh wait, that works for the games industry too!
 

Woodsey

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Aug 9, 2009
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Fucking hell, more games are just being squeezed into the 15 category to get in, when they're 18s everywhere else.

Amazing that the only people who can't distinguish between real life and games, or who aren't mature enough to deal with adult themes, are all about 50 and are the ones making the rules.
 

drisky

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Mar 16, 2009
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"Given that it's practically impossible for even the most conscientious of parents to keep their children away from exposure to portable R18+ items like DVDs and games, how can it be possibly claimed that this would be better for children?"

You know your right, everyone should just give up as a parent and have there computers stream 24 hour porn, they are going to be exposed to it anyways so why bother. Its as if she's saying free speech should be 100% illegal because children could hear things you say.
 

Goldeneye1989

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Mar 9, 2009
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The bible how can people teach children about it, it promotes unsafe sex, killing, looting, vengeance, murder, betrayal, doing the law against what is right, obedience/submission.

C wut i did thare?

And logan if you would please put a censored sign on that Image, As of now Mortal Kombat has been banned here in Australia, this means that there cannot be any advertisements directed to us about this material. I dont want my 21 year old fickle eyes being burnt by someone promoting violent acts.

Now if you would excuse me, i have State of Origin re-runs to watch
 

Veloxe

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Oct 5, 2010
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drisky said:
You know your right, everyone should just give up as a parent and have there computers stream 24 hour porn, they are going to be exposed to it anyways so why bother.
At the very least you should take your kid to a strip club or something. I mean, it might as well be a bonding experience right?

OT: I find the whole argument just flawed. 'We can't keep it away from them so we shouldn't have it' is lazy parenting IMO. It's because, in this digital world, you can't keep it 100% away from your kids that you actually have to have communication with them and punish them when they do go out of their way to break the rules you set down for them.

As for more risk taking, hell, I took more risks emulating what I saw on TV then I ever did for what I saw in video games.
 

Weaver

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Apr 28, 2008
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"Given that it's practically impossible for even the most conscientious of parents to keep their children away from exposure to portable R18+ items like DVDs and games, how can it be possibly claimed that this would be better for children?"

Maybe she's just a terrible parent.
 

mr-fix_it

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Apr 15, 2009
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By her logic we should ban/censor everything at might result in children getting into contact of adult themed things like ecxessive violence, sex and genitalia (not that many games feature genitalia but do seriously think that she is going to care about that?) by that logic shouldn't we ban films,books, the internet and reality as well since reality includes the last point really early (locker rooms, and one's own). You can't protect children by forcefully trying to make everything adult related because that will make it worse when they finally discover it. Instead one should try to rather ease them into it and allways make sure that questions they have does not go unanswered.

Besides I'm preatty sure a parent can keep check of what their child is playing by keeping the console in the living room/any other room where people often is.
 

KeyMaster45

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Jun 16, 2008
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Given that it's practically impossible for even the most conscientious of parents to keep their children away from exposure to portable R18+ items like DVDs and games
Wrong, the most conscientious parents actually pay attention to game ratings and make informed decisions about what they are purchasing. They don't take their children to R rated films and don't allow R rated films in their homes. They also most certainly don't allow anything over the rated T equivalent to be played by their kids until the so deem them to be mature enough to handle the content of rated M equivalent games.

No, the kinds of parents who's kids get their hands on R and M rated material are parents who are uninformed and don't bother to check the ratings on movies or games. They do little to no research on the content of either and will buy their kid an M rated game like GTA 4 because the kid claims "they play it for the racing".
 

gigastar

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Sep 13, 2010
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Oh shit, the Culture Police are on the prowl.

I still dont think theres any concrete proof that exposure to adult themes at a young age can cause violent behavior in children.

Goldeneye1989 said:
The bible how can people teach children about it, it promotes unsafe sex, killing, looting, vengeance, murder, betrayal, doing the law against what is right, obedience/submission.
Australia isnt big on religion. Even in the 1800's it was referred to as a 'godforsaken wasteland'. That and all the convicts that got shipped there had mostly abandoned religion anyway.
 

aashell13

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Jan 31, 2011
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pshh, 'propaganda' is so cold war. it's called 'spin' these days, and everyone does it, even you anti-entertainment people.
 

Dastardly

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Apr 19, 2010
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Logan Westbrook said:
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Until there is a clear, thorough, and publicly-available rubric by which content is judged, there's just no way to mitigate the hazard of this slippery slope. Until we know precisely how many deaths constitutes a "massacre" in a video game, or exactly what percentage of surface area constitutes "partial nudity," or which particular methods produce "gruesome" violence, there is too much room for anything remotely violent to be called "too much."

But I believe if anyone attempted to create such a rubric, they'd find themselves feeling ridiculous. They'd realize just how arbitrary this stuff really is--I mean, why is the word "damn" permissible (which indicates wishing someone to be tortured in "hell," which is also just fine)... but "shit" (a rather abstract word, or at worst a synonym for feces) is grievously offensive?
 

fundayz

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Feb 22, 2010
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All this debate yet people don't ask the core question of the debate:

Why are games being treated differently than movies or TV?

The opposition basically revolves around the belief that video games are "Children's Media".

It's downright ridiculous and hypocritical; ff they believe exposure to violence and sexual themes has such a bad effect, then why are they not trying to censor TV and Movies too?


There is only two logical options:

1. Allow R rated games, accepting that some children will get their hands on these games.

2. Disallow R rated games, infringing adults' rights to view media they desire; however, all R rated media must also be disallowed or else fairness goes out the window.
 

Vanquishuer

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Mar 5, 2009
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She pulled the, "For Thr Chuldrun" card. She should now wait in line for the Anti-Sex crowd, cause accidently seeing parents going at it would be far worse then the one second of bare ass from Mass Effect.
 

Azaraxzealot

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Micah Weil said:
The case of "Pot v. Kettle" seems to be ongoing...
ninja'd
not like they've never used propaganda before. in fact that's usually how they get their messages across :p

Dastardly said:
Logan Westbrook said:
Permalink
Until there is a clear, thorough, and publicly-available rubric by which content is judged, there's just no way to mitigate the hazard of this slippery slope. Until we know precisely how many deaths constitutes a "massacre" in a video game, or exactly what percentage of surface area constitutes "partial nudity," or which particular methods produce "gruesome" violence, there is too much room for anything remotely violent to be called "too much."

But I believe if anyone attempted to create such a rubric, they'd find themselves feeling ridiculous. They'd realize just how arbitrary this stuff really is--I mean, why is the word "damn" permissible (which indicates wishing someone to be tortured in "hell," which is also just fine)... but "shit" (a rather abstract word, or at worst a synonym for feces) is grievously offensive?
or why is showing a little boy's butt funny (as in spongebob and a LOT of other kids cartoons) but girl butt is "child pornography"?
 

Anton P. Nym

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Sep 18, 2007
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Is there some sort of law in Australia that mandates the removal of parental controls from consoles and/or prevents the installation of "net nanny" software?

If objections to R18+ really are based on "think of the children", well, much of the rest of the world has already gotten there without imposing ouright bans on content that would be acceptable in films of comparable rating.

-- Steve