8 Bit Philosophy: Does Privilege Matter?

briankoontz

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May 17, 2010
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The motivation to have a discussion about privilege itself implies a great deal of privilege - most of the world's population is too involved with basic living to do such a thing, even discounting a lack of internet access and associated skills. All discussions presuppose the value of discussion, favorably biasing the outcome of the debate.

The billions of basic workers of the world do not benefit from discussing privilege - it's not as if a discussion is going to improve their status. The purpose of such a discussion for the privileged is to enable them to modify themselves to better function in the world, potentially increasing their privilege, ironically over and above the very people who are ostensibly the generating force, or reason, for the discussion to be had in the first place.

To put this in historical terms, the 1960s in the West marked a tipping point - multinational capital overcame the power of national capital. One facet of multinational capital is multinational markets, multi-ethnic markets, and the capitalist desire to be anti-racist and globalist. The primary outcomes of this in the United States were the civil rights and women's rights movements, which would allow the previously nationalist culture in the US to become global.

The inherent problem with this entire process is that it's eternally hypocritical - the purpose is to allow capitalists to better function with respect to a global and diverse consumer base, but the purpose of capitalism itself is to exploit all entities with power, transferring capital up the hierarchy. The purpose of "enlightening" a previously bigoted American capitalist class was to allow said capitalists to make more money, from establishing better and less insulting relationships with the exploited people of the world.

In other words, the problem isn't the reality of Gordon Gekko, but rather his image - the problem is that Gordon Gekko looks and acts like a rich asshole instead of looking and acting like Barack Obama. So the solution is to change the look of the capitalist monster, change his "attitude", give him some "street cred", and then send him out to the do the same thing that Gekko was doing, except far more effectively since he's a public relations success instead of a failure.

Pulling back from the metaphor, the entire cultural structure of political correctness, of multiculturalism, and of anti-racism, is not intended to nor does it improve the lives of poor people around the world. It's intended to increase the power of Western capitalists, and when jeers and boos follow George W. Bush, but then cheers follow Barack Obama despite his even greater destruction and terrorizing of the world, it's Job Well Done (or "Mission Accomplished"). When citizens in the United States congratulate themselves on their anti-racism, telling themselves it's the result of enlightenment and "greater consciousness and understanding", shunning any consideration or self-reflection in favor of perpetual self-praise, their Moral Glory indeed can receive no shade to block out it's sun.

This is very frustrating for everyone who understands that only true human solidarity throughout the world will save it, and the big obstacle of capitalism is aided and abetted by a Righteous Western populace who refuses to view themselves through an honest lens, probably because they are on the side of the capitalists.
 

chikusho

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Jun 14, 2011
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Strazdas said:
normalcy and commonality is the same thing. I know people like to pretend that "normal vs abnormal" matter, but it doesnt. normal is a setting on washing machine. there are no "normal" people. what we refer to as normal are simply the common majority. and thats true in every culture. everyones different.
It's not though. "Normal" implies the natural way things should be, and "different" in this context just means acceptable variations on a theme. "Commonality", on the other hand, is simply identifying trends and regularity. Words matter, explicitly so in this case.

as i already shown you, we are different for liking different games. being different is neither dehumanizing nor dangerous unless you are a racist in which case you would think that being different is being worse. im not a racist, so i dont find being different as being worse.
It goes way deeper than that. Identifiers carry baggage which gets applied to the individual. Being different in the sense I'm talking about is inherently dehumanizing, since the difference in itself is a cause of othering. It kills empathy and understanding, which was the whole point of my OP.

I dont know what videogames you like and you dont know what videogames i like, yet if i saw you i could tell your skin color quite easily. using videogames as identifier requires you knowing the person, which makes it useless for majority of population. i already shown this to you with the "Great artist" in the crowd example.
So, why is skin color only an identifier of *non-white people? As you say yourself, the majority of the western world is white. If identifiers were truly as important and ubiquitous as you claim, and also only fulfilled the function you claim it does, there would be numerous denominations of white skin coloring to differentiate and identify white people within a white majority community. The conclusion spells only differentiation in a negative sense.

can you show me examples of infanticide in western society that isnt just a single crazy mother being crazy?
First, I don't see how that matters, since your own example clearly disproved your point about skin color simply as descriptors. Secondly, western infanticide does happen, just indirectly, under institutionalized racism.

*Edit
 

Korolev

No Time Like the Present
Jul 4, 2008
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Should one be ashamed of being born with privilege? No, because no one asks to be born into privilege. And while it is true that you could "give your privilege up" (at least, the financial/material aspects of privilege), very few would ever do that - even the folks complaining about privilege (give them 1,000,000 dollars and see how much of it they give away).

BUT - Privilege exists, and we need to take it into account. Privilege (and I am one of the most privileged people on the planet, statistically speaking) helps open up doors for you. It doesn't negate any hard work you did to get to where you are today, but privilege means you had the opportunity to get there, whereas others might not have.

You shouldn't be ashamed of your Privilege, so long as you do not look down upon those who are less fortunate that you are. I'm not apologising to anyone for being born male, half-white (and the other half is plenty pale too) and into a rich, well-educated, loving family. I'm not in the least bit ashamed of any of that. BUT - I do not think I am a better human being for it. I am not "better" than those who did not have what I had. And while I worked very hard to succeed in my career path, I am also mindful that I had everything I needed to succeed.

Let's say you are given a task - dig a 5m x 5m x 5m cubic hole in the ground within a day. You can think about privilege in this way - the privileged kid is given a shovel, a pick, refreshment, good food, encouragement, sunscreen and a hat to wear in the sun. The unprivileged kid not only has no shovel, pick or food or hat or sunscreen, he has to walk 2km to get to the dig site! One kid is far more likely to succeed than the other. Both will still have to work hard - digging a hole that's 5m by 5m and 5m deep is pretty goddamn hard work let me tell you - but one will likely fail no matter how hard he works. And the other kid might succeed, and that's fine, but he shouldn't lord his success over the other kid, because who is to know if he would have succeeded had he been placed in his situation.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Well there are a couple of points to consider. The first one to consider is that "privilege" isn't something that can be fairly attributed to white people the way a lot of people are. If it even exists, and I do not think it does in the sense people try and use it, it can be said that whomever is part of the dominant group is by default privileged. For example if your in China or Japan, being Chinese or Japanese gives you "privilege" if you believe it exists over whites, blacks, or any other ethnicity. The irony of many of these discussions is that white countries tend to be some of the freest and most tolerant in the world compared to how people are treated in other countries, countries where people don't even engage in any kind of self reflection on it.

The other point that needs to be brought up is that just as arguments can be made about "privilege" arguments is that when dealing with groups of people within a society it is just as likely for groups of people to form sub-cultures and counter-cultures that misbehave to a point where they effectively bring scorn and examination upon themselves, meaning that those born into such groups are not dealing with other people bring "privileged" so much as they have the misfortune of being born in a time and place where they are effectively paying the debt their culture has earned through multiple generations, putting themselves in a very Satre-like position of either working to assimilate, and become part of the solution, as unfair as it might be that they have to prove themselves continually and deal with the scorn, or embrace a self-perpetuating culture that will do nothing but make the problem incrementally worse.
 

briankoontz

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May 17, 2010
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The "self-perpetuating culture" is itself part of the resistance - just as Kawaii is part of the Western resistance against criticism - effectively saying that we can't possibly be hurting the world if Kitten Can Has Cheezburger?. Just look at how non-threatening and adorable we are!

It's true victimization to become the culprit - to become assimilated into the structure of domination. So someone who "escapes the ghetto" and then exploits their "roots" for personal gain has capitulated to the system of power - they've had their souls bought out for a pile of money.

The very things called "making the problem worse" by the ruling structure is in reality continued resistance against that structure.

Capitalism is a single hegemonic global power structure. There aren't alternatives that exist whereby wads of cash are to be made while simultaneously destroying the very system that allows the transfer of funds. Every form of rational resistance understands this.

Babies are adorable as a survival tactic, since they are otherwise disempowered. Other disempowered yet creative living beings (as opposed to the more limited non-human animals) behave very strangely to people within the power structure, who have lived their entire lives in service to that structure, who only recognize moral behavior in light of that service, and who plead and simply ask everyone to please, please, just be slaves to it as well. It will go oh-so-much better for you if you do, you see - otherwise you're just making it worse.

This isn't to say that actions of resistance can't themselves be effectively criticized, but when a white plantation owner criticizes the behavior of the field slaves the dominative purpose and point of view prevents the criticism from any form of positive value.
 

Strazdas

Robots will replace your job
May 28, 2011
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chikusho said:
It's not though. "Normal" implies the natural way things should be, and "different" in this context just means acceptable variations on a theme. "Commonality", on the other hand, is simply identifying trends and regularity. Words matter, explicitly so in this case.
no, it does not. Maybe for people who dont understand what words mean, in which case - educate them. Different is different, it does not mean acceptable or not. A serial killer is different, though few would find him acceptable. Yes, words matter, especially when people dont seem to understand what "normal" means.


It goes way deeper than that. Identifiers carry baggage which gets applied to the individual. Being different in the sense I'm talking about is inherently dehumanizing, since the difference in itself is a cause of othering. It kills empathy and understanding, which was the whole point of my OP.
They carry baggage only if you are a prejudice person. They are not inherently dehumanizing. They are dehumanizing only for people who enjoy dehumanizing others. Empathy can exist among more than just identical factors.

So, why is skin color only an identifier of *non-white people? As you say yourself, the majority of the western world is white. If identifiers were truly as important and ubiquitous as you claim, and also only fulfilled the function you claim it does, there would be numerous denominations of white skin coloring to differentiate and identify white people within a white majority community. The conclusion spells only differentiation in a negative sense.
Its not? Heck i already gave you examples of white people being identified like that in asia. the reason its an identifier in Western cultures for nonwhites is because nonwhites are minority there. if your identifier points to 80% of population then it hardly identifies anything now does it. but when it comes to smaller scale, it most definatelly works. ive seen black people refer to "That white guy" when there was 1 white guy in their group. it is very situation-dependent.

It seems that you didnt read what i wrote however. i said that those skin color denominations were used so commonly because they are easy to spot without knowing anything about the person. Variuos denominations of white skin are not easy to spot (and neither are variuos denominations of black skin) so they are not being used as identifiers.

There is no negative connotation to indentifier. it seems that your personal interpretation is what gives it a negative connotation.

First, I don't see how that matters, since your own example clearly disproved your point about skin color simply as descriptors. Secondly, western infanticide does happen, just indirectly, under institutionalized racism.
your of your main arguing points for me being wrong was that it leads to infanticide. since i was not aware of any infanticide i asked you to provide proof of that claim. You now are saying that it doesnt matter. I guess you cant back up that claim, then?