Could you explain how you think he his a Gary Stu? I am curious, as I think he tends to make enough mistakes to generally sidestep that title. Hell, Ghost Story is all about how he
made a stupid decision and it fucked things up for the whole city.
I'd also mention Snake Plissken of "Escape From New York" and "Escape from LA" fame. They should just make an "Escape from _________" game period, but Snake Plissken would be an awesome character to play as. I think they were working on one but it never got finished.
Yeah that probably would be pretty fun. Even when he dies you could play it off as just rebuilding him, and combat with four lightsabres equipped would lead to some interesting fights. Though you would have no force powers.
I'd also mention Snake Plissken of "Escape From New York" and "Escape from LA" fame. They should just make an "Escape from _________" game period, but Snake Plissken would be an awesome character to play as. I think they were working on one but it never got finished.
Not sure if you're aware of this but the character Solid Snake and all his composites including his progenitor Big Boss from Metal Gear Solid take inspiration from said character. If not you should give them a go. I recommend starting with MGS3: Snake Eater... My favourite anyway and it's set before any of the other games technically except maybe the original NES Metal Gear.
mrdeclandeadly said:
rasta111 said:
If you want a game about hunting down Jedi General Grievous is another far more interesting candidate.
Yeah that probably would be pretty fun. Even when he dies you could play it off as just rebuilding him, and combat with four lightsabres equipped would lead to some interesting fights. Though you would have no force powers.
I don't know about re-building him, I was thinking more about the time he's active between episode 2 and 3 up until the opening sequence of episode 3 where he evades Anakin and Obi-Wan. There's plenty left unexplained about how he came to be an apprentice of Dooku and exactly how he came to acquire those Jedi lightsabers.
The idea of him being a non-force sensitive actually gives the idea more character I think and presents more challenges for the player in battles with Jedi.
Because, you know, a shout qualifies as the whole grieving process (usually it doesn't end there, you know) and destroying some lab equipment on adrenaline is enough to show that he feels dandy in his suit (while in old EU there was some evidence that he had quite the time adapting to it and this is the idea that really should come back). Vader, bland? Let alone blander than Darth "I'll only say a stock villain phrase and then get murdered" Maul (and don't get me wrong, Darth Maul is cool and DOES deserve a game of his own, but come the fuck on)?
Vader is in all six movies, his character arc is as fully developed as it will ever get. Again Vader has no adjustment to his suit he is simply weakened by the ordeal which from that point on he attempts to hide. It's the sole reason he doesn't overthrow the emperor then and there and spends the rest of his arc waiting for this very opportunity. As you said Darth Maul gets one line in a movie before he takes the plunge...
No I don't think so.
I think the idea of character development is to make characters less bland not pummel the character with every last bit of nonsense you can throw at it until it becomes a bland mess.
Thankfully, I wasn't suggesting to do this, I was suggesting the complete opposite - show the logical development of the character that clearly did happen, but happened offscreen and make it the focus of the story. And Vader could actually use some real character development because lack of such was one of many points of criticism for the prequels.
mrdeclandeadly said:
How awesome would it be to have an action/rts style Star Wars game where you play Vader hunting down the last of the Jedi. They could start where the new movies left off and lead right into A New Hope. Controlling battalions of galactic starships against rebel forces, then moving to control Vader on the battlefield.
Could you explain how you think he his a Gary Stu? I am curious, as I think he tends to make enough mistakes to generally sidestep that title. Hell, Ghost Story is all about how he
made a stupid decision and it fucked things up for the whole city.
I was thinking the same thing. Harry is always making mistakes which is why he typically gets the crap kicked out of him every book.
I will admit, the number of times he is "tapped out" of magic but still somehow manages to pull off one more spell is a bit unbelievable, but that seemed to lessen as the series continued.
EDIT: This will teach me to refresh the page before responding if I walk away for an hour.
Sseth said:
Because he's some kind of super geek's idealized life (wears a trench coat, fedora, cowboy boots, drinks coke and has a cat that drinks coke, lives in a sub-basement, makes star wars references, is tall fit and handsome though of course but not a buff douche bro). He knows magic, he has overcome 'most' situations more through sheer luck or deus ex machina bullshit than the actual wit or intelligence I'd expect from a noir genre detective.
I mean I don't know, maybe it's just me but I can't shake the feeling that he's a massive Gary Stu self insert of the geeky author. He feels like an anime character. It's just not the quality of writing I'd associate with such a highly regarded series. Again though, I've read all of them up to Skin Game. So I guess that's saying something.
At least it's not nearly as bad as Patrick Rothfuss's The Name of the Wind. Kvothe is a thousand times worse lol.
Harry doesn't do hats. That's just the cover artist's rendition.
Honestly, I feel most noir genre detectives get through their cases with about 50% luck, as there seems to be some lucky happenstance that allows them to avoid an attempt on their lives, that lets them obtain the one missing bit of information they needed to crack their case, etc.
And is that REALLY the super-geek's idealized life? Sure, the magic bit and being really quick witted would rank up there, but everything else you mentioned just doesn't really fly with me. Hipster, sure, some of those things would work, but not super-geek. Plus, the inability to use modern technology would surely turn off a large percentage of geeks. I mean, how would they get online to complain about the newest games?
Because, you know, a shout qualifies as the whole grieving process (usually it doesn't end there, you know) and destroying some lab equipment on adrenaline is enough to show that he feels dandy in his suit (while in old EU there was some evidence that he had quite the time adapting to it and this is the idea that really should come back). Vader, bland? Let alone blander than Darth "I'll only say a stock villain phrase and then get murdered" Maul (and don't get me wrong, Darth Maul is cool and DOES deserve a game of his own, but come the fuck on)?
Vader is in all six movies, his character arc is as fully developed as it will ever get. Again Vader has no adjustment to his suit he is simply weakened by the ordeal which from that point on he attempts to hide. It's the sole reason he doesn't overthrow the emperor then and there and spends the rest of his arc waiting for this very opportunity. As you said Darth Maul gets one line in a movie before he takes the plunge...
No I don't think so.
I think the idea of character development is to make characters less bland not pummel the character with every last bit of nonsense you can throw at it until it becomes a bland mess.
Thankfully, I wasn't suggesting to do this, I was suggesting the complete opposite - show the logical development of the character that clearly did happen, but happened offscreen and make it the focus of the story. And Vader could actually use some real character development because lack of such was one of many points of criticism for the prequels.
mrdeclandeadly said:
How awesome would it be to have an action/rts style Star Wars game where you play Vader hunting down the last of the Jedi. They could start where the new movies left off and lead right into A New Hope. Controlling battalions of galactic starships against rebel forces, then moving to control Vader on the battlefield.
I already explained Vader has a fully developed character arc and General Grevious doesn't (what's with the cough, how did he become a cyborg?), it's the same reason I'd prefer Darth Maul or pretty much anyone else other than Vader, it's bland and boring, nothing we haven't seen a dozen times before.
We already know everything there is to know about Vader, he has nothing left to live for and is effectively being forced to continue to exist by the suit/emperor. He doesn't care about Padme because she's dead and if he did he'd know he had children in advance. He certainly doesn't really care about any Jedi as he had a hand in wiping them out all of which is already well established. All he cares about is finding a way to usurp the emperor which he hides behind the suit and fearsome appearance which ironically is the reason he can't as his injuries limit his potential.
All of which is quite well covered by Force Unleashed funnily enough if you were paying attention.
Because, you know, a shout qualifies as the whole grieving process (usually it doesn't end there, you know) and destroying some lab equipment on adrenaline is enough to show that he feels dandy in his suit (while in old EU there was some evidence that he had quite the time adapting to it and this is the idea that really should come back). Vader, bland? Let alone blander than Darth "I'll only say a stock villain phrase and then get murdered" Maul (and don't get me wrong, Darth Maul is cool and DOES deserve a game of his own, but come the fuck on)?
Vader is in all six movies, his character arc is as fully developed as it will ever get. Again Vader has no adjustment to his suit he is simply weakened by the ordeal which from that point on he attempts to hide. It's the sole reason he doesn't overthrow the emperor then and there and spends the rest of his arc waiting for this very opportunity. As you said Darth Maul gets one line in a movie before he takes the plunge...
No I don't think so.
I think the idea of character development is to make characters less bland not pummel the character with every last bit of nonsense you can throw at it until it becomes a bland mess.
Thankfully, I wasn't suggesting to do this, I was suggesting the complete opposite - show the logical development of the character that clearly did happen, but happened offscreen and make it the focus of the story. And Vader could actually use some real character development because lack of such was one of many points of criticism for the prequels.
mrdeclandeadly said:
How awesome would it be to have an action/rts style Star Wars game where you play Vader hunting down the last of the Jedi. They could start where the new movies left off and lead right into A New Hope. Controlling battalions of galactic starships against rebel forces, then moving to control Vader on the battlefield.
I already explained Vader has a fully developed character arc and General Grevious doesn't (what's with the cough, how did he become a cyborg?), it's the same reason I'd prefer Darth Maul or pretty much anyone else other than Vader, it's bland and boring, nothing we haven't seen a dozen times before.
We already know everything there is to know about Vader, he has nothing left to live for and is effectively being forced to continue to exist by the suit/emperor. He doesn't care about Padme because she's dead and if he did he'd know he had children in advance. He certainly doesn't really care about any Jedi as he had a hand in wiping them out all of which is already well established. All he cares about is finding a way to usurp the emperor which he hides behind the suit and fearsome appearance which ironically is the reason he can't as his injuries limit his potential.
All of which is quite well covered by Force Unleashed funnily enough if you were paying attention.
Yeah, but Force Unleashed is A) Non-canon and B) shit. Also, C) Vader is playable for only a tiny fraction of the game and I want to play a whole game as him.
Yeah, but Force Unleashed is A) Non-canon and B) shit. Also, C) Vader is playable for only a tiny fraction of the game and I want to play a whole game as him.
What does that have to do with anything? I've just explained why I think Vader is a poor choice while all you've done is say non-canon and shit. Congratulations you want to play as a character whose most direct influence is the Nazis... What has that got to do with me?
Also Force Unleashed is canonical not that that means anything in a fictional universe. Only the dark side choice was deemed non-canonical last I heard but honestly... Who gives a shit?
Yeah, but Force Unleashed is A) Non-canon and B) shit. Also, C) Vader is playable for only a tiny fraction of the game and I want to play a whole game as him.
What does that have to do with anything? I've just explained why I think Vader is a poor choice while all you've done is say non-canon and shit. Congratulations you want to play as a character whose most direct influence is the Nazis... What has that got to do with me?
Also Force Unleashed is canonical not that that means anything in a fictional universe. Only the dark side choice was deemed non-canonical last I heard but honestly... Who gives a shit?
Says the guy who has nazis on his userpic. And I want to play as one of the greatest anti-villains of all time. I got to play as two unrelated villainous vampire overlords in two unrelated series but I can't play Darth Vader? That's a bummer.
TFU is EU, EU is non-canon. It was also specifically mentioned after the Disney buyout that no, Rebel Alliance did not form the way it did in TFU, so I think it's safe to say Starkiller (aka Darth Blandon) was thrown away as well.
Says the guy who has nazis on his userpic. And I want to play as one of the greatest anti-villains of all time. I got to play as two unrelated villainous vampire overlords in two unrelated series but I can't play Darth Vader? That's a bummer.
TFU is EU, EU is non-canon. It was also specifically mentioned after the Disney buyout that no, Rebel Alliance did not form the way it did in TFU, so I think it's safe to say Starkiller (aka Darth Blandon) was thrown away as well.
lol what, did you just call me a Nazi? Wow. Aaaanyway, Starkiller is Starkiller he never becomes a Sith and until he became popular was simply known as Vader's secret apprentice... Again he is an avatar for the player aka you, who is meant to based on Luke as if he were found and brought up by Vader... But in any case I refer you back to my original question... Who gives a shit?
Last thing I want is even more Star Wars focusing yet again on the same few already established characters as though the "galaxy" far far away managed to run out of people and creative ideas before it could even build a small village.
And I love the Dresden Files, but I dont want to play Harry either. Nothing would make me more sad than seeing DF magic reduced to a gamified set of pre-selected "click to fire" spell-guns. And theyd probably put him in a hat.
Dirty Harry game would be awesome. There was one in early development a few years ago, with (I think) Clint on board to provide the voice. Unfortunately, the game was canned. The trailer is still up on the net, a lot of it is taken from the film, notably the dialogue, but it still gives a great idea of what a game would/could've been like: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZICPDBJW228
Last thing I want is even more Star Wars focusing yet again on the same few already established characters as though the "galaxy" far far away managed to run out of people and creative ideas before it could even build a small village.
And I love the Dresden Files, but I dont want to play Harry either. Nothing would make me more sad than seeing DF magic reduced to a gamified set of pre-selected "click to fire" spell-guns. And theyd probably put him in a hat.
Says the guy who has nazis on his userpic. And I want to play as one of the greatest anti-villains of all time. I got to play as two unrelated villainous vampire overlords in two unrelated series but I can't play Darth Vader? That's a bummer.
TFU is EU, EU is non-canon. It was also specifically mentioned after the Disney buyout that no, Rebel Alliance did not form the way it did in TFU, so I think it's safe to say Starkiller (aka Darth Blandon) was thrown away as well.
lol what, did you just call me a Nazi? Wow. Aaaanyway, Starkiller is Starkiller he never becomes a Sith and until he became popular was simply known as Vader's secret apprentice... Again he is an avatar for the player aka you, who is meant to based on Luke as if he were found and brought up by Vader... But in any case I refer you back to my original question... Who gives a shit?
No, I didn't: I said that shaming me for wanting to play a character whose visual style was inspired by Nazis while having Nazis on your forum avatar is a little bit weird, don't you think? Indeed, who gives a shit about Starkiller? Nobody.
No, I didn't: I said that shaming me for wanting to play a character whose visual style was inspired by Nazis while having Nazis on your forum avatar is a little bit weird, don't you think? Indeed, who gives a shit about Starkiller? Nobody.
What? So you're saying you didn't but you did? Come on you're the one who brought all this up and I just stated a fact. The imagery and personality of Vader was inspired by Nazis and if me saying that makes you feel bad that's got nothing to do with me which is what I actually did say. You're rambling on about stuff I don't care about that has nothing to do with me or anything here for that matter (this was never about Starkiller it was about Vader) for no reason but to... You know I really don't care...
I'm done here time to go and finish off my eugenics program and then if there's time schedule my own execution for being of mixed descent... Toodles.
No, I didn't: I said that shaming me for wanting to play a character whose visual style was inspired by Nazis while having Nazis on your forum avatar is a little bit weird, don't you think? Indeed, who gives a shit about Starkiller? Nobody.
What? So you're saying you didn't but you did? Come on you're the one who brought all this up and I just stated a fact. The imagery and personality of Vader was inspired by Nazis and if me saying that makes you feel bad that's got nothing to do with me which is what I actually did say. You're rambling on about stuff I don't care about that has nothing to do with me or anything here for that matter (this was never about Starkiller it was about Vader) for no reason but to... You know I really don't care...
I'm done here time to go and finish off my eugenics program and then if there's time schedule my own execution for being of mixed descent... Toodles.
You know, if you have no arguments, which you clearly don't, there are better ways to exit a conversation than lie about me doing things I never did. There are nazis on your userpic. That's a bloody fact. That doesn't make you a nazi and I never said it did. That's another bloody fact. You are the one rambling here, the stuff I'm writing actually makes sense.
No, no he doesn't - Force Unleashed only had him playable for one level and then had you stuck with his twat of an apprentice for the rest of the game. Wish he was the main character, that was the best level in that bloody thing.
Initial meaningless ramble about irrelevant things
RealRT said:
rasta111 said:
RealRT said:
the apprentice who, as we have already established, is a twat. A bland as all fuck and boring character who was supposed to be a much more interesting anti-hero, but fell into your typical "HEY, THE GUYS I'M SERVING ARE ACTUALLY EVIL, HOLY SHIT" arc.
Really? I thought we'd established the apprentice was basically just an avatar of the player that can be shaped meaningfully with thought about the actual ACTIONS the player is taking thus hopefully making what happens seem less predictable and more in the hands of the player and not simply the avatar. That and the only character other than Luke in the established timeline capable of challenging Vader with any real conviction... But whatever. ._.
Yeah, I don't buy the "avatar of the player" crap because the fuckwit talks. And he cannot be shaped through ACTIONS, he is shaped through a moral choice - not even moral choices, A moral choice, just one. That's not character development, that's "choose your own ending" button. Oh, and by the way, the "young Jedi who is player's avatar that's shaped through player and gets to choose between light and dark side at the end" was done far better in Jedi Academy. With better combat. And better force powers. And the ability to choose your own race and gender. And good multiplayer. And Jennifer Hale as the VA of the female PC.
Man, I need to play some Jedi Academy pronto.
Uh huh... I'm not the one blabbering in people's ears with no regard for discussion while acting like my opinion is fact, I don't care if you disagree, like I said this is just a discussion about FICTIONAL characters. In fact I've been fairly accommodating. Look it up. You don't see me harassing anyone who wants to talk about a game with Vader in it, although I disagree I simply said why and only because you hassled me for answers.
You clearly never had any interest in discussing a game about Vader your interest clearly only lies with rambling at anyone who disagrees with you until they just give up trying. Most people wouldn't even bother trying to begin with. Good luck with that.
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