A couple of questions to Americans

[bartholen_v1legacy]

As an inhabitant of a Scandinavian country who's spent most of his life prominently with American media (comic books, games, tv shows, movies etc.) there occasionally comes a time when I just need some insider's perspective to how things really are. One of these popped up on my mind (again) after seeing Kick-Ass 2, the other just today while watching "Penn & Teller's Bullshit!".

The first one, which I'm sure many people outside of the US have thought about a lot as well, is: How much is real American high school life like how it's portrayed in entertainment? I asked about this from an exchange student who'd been there years ago, but her experience clearly didn't match the stereotype. But considering how much and how bitterly MovieBob, for example, has ranted on his high school experiences, I know it can't all be just exaggeration and stereotypes.

So, just as a person from a different culture, how "realistic" is the depiction of high school in American entertainment? How common are the mean girls clicks? Do nerds really get stuffed into lockers? Is there really that much competition to be quarterback (or whoever the hell is the lead player, I don't know shit about American footb... sorry, handegg)? Do proms really kick up that much drama? I really want to know.

The other one I have to ask about just because I'm so completely baffled by it. And that's self-esteem coaching.

Spoiler: Here's an episode of Bullshit! that explains it quite well

The whole time watching the episode I had my jaw on the floor. I'd heard of it before, but only now did I realize what kind of stuff it was. This is real? People really pay money for that? A guy is actually touring America, doing cheap magic tricks while telling kids that they're "special", and actually making them yell "I'm number 1!"???????? Just how big is this business? Do you know any people who buy into this stuff?

It actually brought back memories from Lost, in which many characters were told that they're special, that they're unique and important. I always thought of it as a part of the show's themes of destiny and predetermined fate, but that episode really made me look at it from a different perspective. What if it wasn't about fate, what if the show was really telling its audience that this is how they should think about themselves? The thought that parents actively tell their kids that they're one of a kind and that they're bound to be all-important to the world is quite harrowing. I wonder, if that fad doesn't blow over soon, what kind of people are they going to grow up to be?

Anyway, enough rambling. Just wanted to know. Thoughts on either or both of these?

 

[DefunctTheory]

My class in school had less then 130 people in it, and only 86 graduated. So I can't really answer you on that one - I have no idea what the typical high school is like. I'm from the boonies.

As for the 'Self-Esteem' movement, it is a huge business, but probably not nearly as prevalent as you may think. I was told I was special (Because everyone is), but I can't ever remember being told I was going to be some super star, beyond that fact that my parents were confident that I was going to have a much better life then most of my family, close and distant, due to my intellect and general disposition. But its not hard to think that when your family is a huge collection of ditch diggers.

 

[madwarper]

How much is real American high school life like how it's portrayed in entertainment?

All, or none.
First, I don't know what "portrayal in entertainment" you're specifically thinking about.
Second, there is no one homogeneous high school experience. Each person's high school life was unique to them.

How common are the mean girls clicks?

I never saw any at my high school.

Do nerds really get stuffed into lockers?

Nope. a) I went to a "magnet" (all classes were "advanced") and b) the lockers were fall too small to fit anyone in.

Is there really that much competition to be quarterback (or whoever the hell is the lead player, I don't know shit about American footb... sorry, handegg)?

It is Football. And, my high school didn't have a team. Only Basketball, Baseball and Soccer.

Do proms really kick up that much drama?

/shrug. Never went.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

On American high school-

In my experience high school was pretty much nothing like the movies. There wasn't clicks picking on other clicks, or people competing/sabotaging/fighting to be the alpha of a click. Nobody got stuffed into lockers, there wasn't any big drama about who got to be quarterback, and nobody really cared about prom. High school was a lot more boring and a lot less dumb than movies portray.

As for motivational speakers/life coaches, some people do buy into that kind of stuff, but most people think it's bullshit and a waste of money.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

So, just as a person from a different culture, how "realistic" is the depiction of high school in American entertainment? How common are the mean girls clicks? Do nerds really get stuffed into lockers? Is there really that much competition to be quarterback (or whoever the hell is the lead player, I don't know shit about American footb... sorry, handegg)? Do proms really kick up that much drama? I really want to know.

My high school was nothing like this. I mean yes, there were cliques, and yes, some people are dicks, but that's something that happens in any school anywhere in the world. No nerds were not shoved into lockers (hell, our lockers were way too small for that anyway), and no bullying was not a huge problem. In fact, I think in all my 4 years of high school there were probably only like 5 fights total, and someone was actually injured in only one of them (and I went to a school of 5000 people). As far as competition to be quarterback, I guess, but I mean, there's competition for any position in a competitive sport, especially one where you have to prove your ability to even get in. And as for proms, no, they don't tend to kick up a shitload of drama. I mean there's some drama, sure, but it's not the ridiculous things you see on TV. In fact, prom tends to be pretty damn tame from what I've seen.

The other one I have to ask about just because I'm so completely baffled by it. And that's self-esteem coaching.
The whole time watching the episode I had my jaw on the floor. I'd heard of it before, but only now did I realize what kind of stuff it was. This is real? People really pay money for that? A guy is actually touring America, doing cheap magic tricks while telling kids that they're "special", and actually making them yell "I'm number 1!"???????? Just how big is this business? Do you know any people who buy into this stuff?

Yeah, self esteem coaching is incredibly ridiculous. I personally don't know anyone that buys into it (and if I did I probably wouldn't for long). Yes, it is a big industry, because even though there's not a huge amount of people who believe in it, those who do tend to have a lot of disposable income.

 

[Rylot]

There's a couple of things to remember when watching/reading certain media:

-Most of the time what's being shown is an over dramatization or at least somewhat skewed representation of what's going on for dramatic effect. A TV show about high school is only half an hour long so it can't show every single second of someones life, only certain parts which can make it seem like they're only being bullied and nothing else happens to them.

-From about the mid-2000's on 'geek culture' has become really popular and a lot of people who were geeks when being a geek meant being a social outcast are creating a lot of the media now (MovieBob) and they're negative experiences are being represented.

-I went to high school from 2000-2004 and while social clicks very much did exist most people didn't only talk to people in 'their' click. You're click was just who you most hung out with and associated the most with. There wasn't the hostility you see in most high school representations. Again media representations of high school only have a cast of maybe a dozen characters at most; my graduating class was over 400. Even at the best of times media can only create the illusion of fully developed people.

As for the whole self esteem coach thing: For my own experiences there did seem to be (looking back) a backwards notion from educators that self esteem would help kids succeed in school and sports in stead of gaining self esteem from doing well in school and sports. Out in the adult world I haven't seen much of it.

 

[schrodinger]

The first one, which I'm sure many people outside of the US have thought about a lot as well, is: How much is real American high school life like how it's portrayed in entertainment? I asked about this from an exchange student who'd been there years ago, but her experience clearly didn't match the stereotype.

Heh, reminds me when we had a German exchange student at our high school and she told me she was really nervous that american high schools were like the ones on TV/movies. Thankfully no, they're not.

To answer your question OP, the ones you see one tv are more of an exaggeration that happens in real life to bump up the drama or silliness. My high school very diversity; we had students who were rich, middle, poor, black, white, native, asian, latino, and ton of Greeks(note: high school in the middle of a greek town). So, everyone was pretty much balanced with eachother. There were no nerds being pushed into lockers because we had tiny ass lockers to being with. The ones you see in tv are the high schools built all inside, our high school is all pretty much outside, and it was HELL during half the year. The mean girl clicks are non existent, but the biggest click in the school was the band class. Seriously, they were HUGE group that often chilled in the giant band room.
Sure our football(yes i said football. COME AT ME BRO) program was the second biggest to the band class, they weren't a pack roaming the hallways looking for freshmen to throw in dumpsters or going around fucking cheerleaders. A lot of them were pretty nice, and some were even my friends. The assholes of our school were often the sophomores; sophomores thought they were hot shit since they're no longer freshmen. You gotta break them as freshmen.
No, proms never had pig blood fall on anyone, no giant fights over some guy/girl. Maybe a little drama over who won prom King and Queen, but beyond that is was pretty normal.

I barely know about the self-esteem/motivational business, but to me it's just a charismatic person speaking nonsense that rarely works from what I've seen. Like many businesses it's just there to make money.

 

[ohnoitsabear]

How much is American high school like the movies? It isn't. Granted, I can't really say I had a "typical" high school experience, but then again, I don't thing there is such thing as a typical high school experience. It depends so much on what area you're in an what you actually do while you're going through high school. Plus, real high school generally has way less drama than in media (what a shocker).

As for the self esteem coaching thing, it definitely exists, but it's really not all that prevalent, and will probably only become less of a thing as more people are realizing that there is such a thing as too much self esteem.

 

[Tuesday Night Fever]

So, just as a person from a different culture, how "realistic" is the depiction of high school in American entertainment? How common are the mean girls clicks? Do nerds really get stuffed into lockers? Is there really that much competition to be quarterback (or whoever the hell is the lead player, I don't know shit about American footb... sorry, handegg)? Do proms really kick up that much drama? I really want to know.

In my case, the pop culture image of high school was complete and utter bullshit. I grew up in a somewhat small town in New Hampshire, and I graduated in a class of 126 students.

Were there cliques of girls? Yeah, of course they were. But they weren't the sociopath bitches you see in pop culture. They were just groups of girls that were close friends. They were, from what I saw, never particularly mean to anyone. The stereotypical in-fighting among clique members also didn't seem to exist either.

I have never once seen a nerd shoved into a locker. Nor have I ever seen anyone's head dunked into a toilet. I've never actually seen anyone get a wedgie. I was one of the so-called nerds in my class. I was interested in computers, science, and history. I spent my free time playing video games or watching movies. I was a member of the Future Business Leaders of America and had friends in both the math and chess after-school clubs. From my first day of high school until graduation day I was never once bullied by anyone. As far as I'm aware, none of the people in my close friends were ever bullied by anyone. Hell, I was on at least friendly terms with everyone, regardless of their stereotypical image.

I don't know about competition to be quarterback. My high school was relatively new (my class was the third class to graduate from it), and we only had a football team for my senior year. That said, because it was the first year having a football team, everyone was pretty enthusiastic about it. But even then, I never heard of anything like the ridiculous competitiveness that you see in pop culture.

Our senior prom was, from what I've heard, drama-free. Honestly, it didn't have nearly the kind of importance placed upon it that pop culture would lead some to believe is the norm. Close to half of my graduating class didn't bother going to it; myself included. I went to a rock concert with five of my friends instead, then we threw a LAN party when we got back that another five or so people came to.

Just how big is this business? Do you know any people who buy into this stuff?

This never really made much of a splash at my high school. I think we only had maybe one self-esteem oriented assembly during my four years in high school. Some of the neighboring towns used to get these assemblies pretty frequently, though. A couple of my friends from neighboring towns that I used to go skiing with would mention these things from time to time, but always in the context of how stupid they were. They only seemed interested in them because it meant shorter classes for the rest of the day. Honestly, if my school had done more of them, that's probably how I would have looked at it too.

 

[sanquin]

I don't live in America but it seems most people here had a similar experience in high school. (we have a slightly different school system, but it still applies.)

There were clicks. Though they were pretty casual and it was more about who your friends were, less about what you liked or how popular you were. There were plenty of bullies. But they mostly kept it to insults or making fun of you. Nothing bad. Lockers were too small to stuff anything more than books or your bag in. Sports was more seen as a side thing, there not even being real sports teams for schools here so I can't comment on that one. As for prom...some made a big deal out of it, others just thought it as a slightly more formal party with school mates. I never went, as it meant pretending to be someone I'm not. As a proper geek, I instead played computer games with a friend that evening.

 

[Launcelot111]

My high school wasn't too big either, but there were no easily labeled cliques like "jocks" or "goths" or whatever (I guess theater kids would be the closest thing). As for football though, it was a big deal, and there was an unwritten rule that everyone in the school should go to every game (and this rule was actually enforced). We even went out recruiting to get our quarterback. Our prom was super laid back though- we didn't have prom queens or anything, and they had casino games and a bunch of food so people could come and hang out instead of bringing a date and dancing or whatever. All in all, high school was pretty low key.

As for the self esteem guy, Americans are competitive as hell, and resume writing or college admissions consultants are big industries for people who think they can get an edge. I've never personally seen a self esteem coach, but it just seems like the flip side of the same idea.

 

[Akytalusia]

i wouldn't know anything about that. if there any cliques, i wasn't a part of them. so i subsequently didn't see any drama associated with these hypothetical communities, either. i can tell you that nothing in this world is ever as exciting as you're led to believe though.

 

[Towels]

So, just as a person from a different culture, how "realistic" is the depiction of high school in American entertainment?

Actually... Yeah, And here's why:
Most Americans are so dependent on entertainment (including television and music celebrities) for role models that they end up emulating the shows that try to emulate them.

How common are the mean girls clicks?

Assuredly common. There are mean girl clicks in college. I've even had young professors that fit this stereotype. No one can escape this. Its like secret fetish. (not for me.)

Do nerds really get stuffed into lockers?

No... Too many legal issues involved. If bullies wants to strike, they'll do it away from school when no one with authority is around. The more common way to alienate an individual is to group up and force the poor bastard to sit alone at lunch.

Is there really that much competition to be quarterback (or whoever the hell is the lead player, I don't know shit about American footb... sorry, handegg)?

I'm from the South East. YES. A quarterback of a school with more wins than losses is practically guaranteed a college scholarship.

Do proms really kick up that much drama? I really want to know.

I got to go to two and they both sucked ass. Some are lucky, some are dire. We're talking about a moment that some students have literally been waiting for their entire high school lives. Something better happen, dammit!

Hope that clears things up.

 

[Beffudled Sheep_v1legacy]

1) Not really. My first high school had cliques but there was little to no animosity or drama between them. I personally hang out with stereotypical nerds, jocks, popular kids, loners and crazy party people. There wasn't much drama within the cliques either. The two biggest "cliques" were actually the kids from Newark, NJ and the kids from Jersey City, NJ. And there were some racial tensions but little else. Everyone was poor too so there were no rich V. poor drama.

There was shoving of smaller kids into lockers (they were just big enough to get a really thin kid in them and out of them) but that was rare.
Sports were a big deal too but not nearly as big as in other high schools or like on tv.

My second high school had more traditional cliques and was more economically diverse and ethnically homogeneous. The richer kids generally stayed away from anyone they thought or knew was poor and were very flashy and rude with their money. The football players were like traditional media jocks in attitude and action (every other sport was cool though) and there was huge conflict between the non-whites and the whites, especially the Hick-ish whites.
No locker business or any bullying like that. Most bullying was non-physical.

2) I've never come across a real speaker like that so I can't comment.

 

[Alssadar]

From a class of 650, 595 of which graduated, I would say high school is often misrepresented.
Sure, Lake Orion was an arrogant, upper-middle class, Republican, manufacturing-based town, and it had its share of idiots. The truckers with the Confederate Flags. The sports jocks and such, whom I didn't pay much attention to, The chicks who would give a bj for $5. The "Leadership" class, which was preppy girls (and 2 guys), who made posters and got class credit.
Nonetheless, things were decent, as we had plenty of opportunities. We had many clubs, organizations, and activities available for anyone. You could find anyone in anything.
Band is the biggest group, as band kids love band kids. Marching band, especially. But they all aren't the "band geek" persona that's given to them. There were swimmers, programmers, athletes, dancers, artists, and every spectrum between in the band, as people could unite under the flag of music.
But on the issue of self-esteem, Lake Orion is the suicide leader for Michigan, meaning its students and graduates have the highest rate of suicide amongst any other district. So the school wants to make people feel special and useful, giving diverse classes and a wide spectrum of teachers. Promoting students as individuals and supporting their self-esteem became their mission, to make everyone feel accepted and to have a purpose in life. For such, they've become very persuasive on morale support, as rich, arrogant assholes will strive hard to tear down whatever strengths one has, simply because it's funny.
The bullying that goes on is rather atrocious: I was on the receiving end, almost to the point of suicide. I can also count of a number of my friends who have had their protection weakened, as well. It's a disgrace, and a horrible thing.
So, although it may seem far-fetched to you, there are people who are not strong, myself included. There are people who need inspiration, who need something that gives them a reason to live another day. If they're told they're simply going to live a boring, monotonous life of white-collared industry, I'm sure Lake Orion would be worse off. We are told to reach for the stars, and believe, for what else do we have? A town hit horribly by recession as parents lose their jobs and can't find work--people need an aspiration to grasp, and hold themselves to.
Some people need a reason to live.

 

[Hero of Lime]

I was at a private Catholic high school, so I would say my high school experience didn't fit the stereotype. If you were to shove an unpopular kid into a locker, you would be suspended easy. The teachers weren't super strict nuns or anything, the school had a zero tolerance for bullying of any kind. Obviously, being teenagers, people were still jerks, but they were few and far between. The popular kids in my class were what popular kids should be, they were liked by everyone and tried to be friends with everyone. They certainly weren't the stereotypical popular jock jerks you see in high school media.

Prom was a pleasant experience, since we were a smaller class, junior students were allowed too, since it would be a small group otherwise. It was a big deal, but not the "night of your life" experience high school media will make things out to be.

There weren't any mean girls or jocks in my class, we were all really cool. The nerds weren't tortured, and if you were unpopular, people just left you alone, rather than stuffing you in a locker.

However the "everyone's a winner" mentality is very rampant in our elementary schools. Not so much in high school though.

 

[BoogieManFL]

The schools I went too were moderately large, and it was almost never like anything you see in the movies/On TV. Far more tame and just one bland day after another.

 

[Right Hook]

How much is real American high school life like how it's portrayed in entertainment?

The depictions are somewhat accurate, for certain people of course. It depends entirely on what your personal experience was like. I think most depictions of high school are generally about ten years behind the curve, after all most people making TV are showing you their version of it and most of them are long out of high school. Unless it is reality TV and that is WILDLY inaccurate because they turn the drama up to eleven for the sake of ratings, to the point where it is a giant fucking joke.

How common are the mean girls clicks?

There are definitely cliques, I wouldn't necessarily have considered any of them as "mean". Some people get a bit bent out of shape that the popular girls don't pay them attention but honestly nothing really made them popular, it was sort of their own distinction and the fact that they dressed nice and were generally pretty. Plenty of them were cool, regardless of your social status, at least that's how I always felt. My friends and I sort of stayed on the fringe but would often socialize with pretty much whatever group we felt like engaging with on a certain day.

Do nerds really get stuffed into lockers?

Nope, you'd probably get expelled with that vagrant of a display. I have to say that the staff at my school was fairly observant. Kids totally got bullied but it was very much an invisible war, smoke and mirrors, nothing traceable. I don't mean to romanticize that shit because I always found it quite pathetic but there was a certain art to it. A lot of times, the kids getting bullied were doing shit that was borderline bullying itself, most of us would just put up with it but occasionally someone would put their foot down as if to say "toe the line". I tried to be nice to everyone who made their way to me.

Is there really that much competition to be quarterback (or whoever the hell is the lead player, I don't know shit about American footb... sorry, handegg)?

Not at all, most of us had been playing since we were twelve, we already knew who our quarterback was since way back when. However if someone exceptionally better came along for any position, you'd lose your spot. It sucked a little bit but you would still see play and accept that the team was benefiting for the change.

Do proms really kick up that much drama?

Proms don't kick up drama, not really. I never went but I'm pretty sure a girl wanted me to ask her, it just wasn't in me at the time, I was way too much of a rebel for such a school function. The thing that really kicked up drama was Chick A VS Chick B. The argument could be over anything. You better stay out of it, DON'T pick a side or your entire world will be ripped asunder. Way more is being hidden from you in high school than you ever want to realize, if you ever tap the main gossip vein and get to hear it all, you'll fucking cringe and you'll never be able to go back to your peaceful world.

The other one I have to ask about just because I'm so completely baffled by it. And that's self-esteem coaching.

I always viewed this more as a joke, like a guy trying to get a job at a big company listening to a motivational CD on his way to work. For the most part I don't think too many kids get bullshitted like this but there is this vague sense of entitlement coming off a lot of the things people aged 15-24 have to say (I'm 22), just go on Facebook, it's basically a contest to see who can attract the biggest crowd.

 

[Saltyk]

I have to admit that I was dreading it when I clicked on this topic. I'm actually pleasantly surprised, though.

Just one thing to remember, most of us can only really speak from our own personal experiences, so "results may vary" is something to keep in mind. Also, Penn and Teller and their show Bullshit is awesome. Been on a recent binge rewatching some episodes, myself. Now, then, on to your questions.

How much is real American high school life like how it's portrayed in entertainment?

On the whole, not very. Most of it is written by people who were out of high school years ago and are probably exaggerating it for drama. For example, you barely even see classes in those shows. But that was 90% of your time. If you do see classes, the characters are obviously and obnoxiously talking to each other. In my experience, the teacher would get onto you if you even looked like you were trying to hide talking. Much less huddling in the middle of an aisle from your desks loudly talking about your party plans.

So, just as a person from a different culture, how "realistic" is the depiction of high school in American entertainment? How common are the mean girls clicks?

There's always bullies. Not being a girl, I can't say much about the "Mean Girls", but I didn't really notice any. But I generally kept to myself.

Do nerds really get stuffed into lockers?

Do they still do that in shows and movies!? I remember my old locker in high school. I could barely fit my books in the damn thing. I doubt you could fit a person, no matter how small they were. And if someone did do that, they would likely be suspended. Terroristic Threats are worth expulsion, so I don't think forcing a kid into a locker would be looked upon lightly. Especially with all the anti-bullying campaigns these days.

Is there really that much competition to be quarterback (or whoever the hell is the lead player, I don't know shit about American footb... sorry, handegg)?

Okay, first off, it's Football. American Football, if you prefer. Mocking it isn't funny. Especially when you consider how much money the entire sport is worth here. 30 second Super Bowl ads cost more than an entire Soccer team's budget. Especially here (not that that's hard).

As for the competition to be the Quarterback, arguably the most important position with the most glory, I can't really say. My high school Football team sucked out loud. I couldn't tell you if they won a single game in all four years I was there. Maybe in some schools, but I doubt it.

Though, a good high school Quarterback could get into a good college with a good scholarship. And from there, they could even enter the NFL and earn millions of dollars with some very lucrative contracts. Especially if they are good. So, I suppose for some it could be a major step.

Do proms really kick up that much drama?

In my experience, no. I only went to my Junior Prom and it wasn't really anything special. Some music and dancing. And that was about it. Only, people were well dressed. Amazing.

The other one I have to ask about just because I'm so completely baffled by it. And that's self-esteem coaching.

Well, I'd point out that Penn and Teller also have episodes about Manners and Alien Abductions. I don't think it's as big as you think.

Oh, it's a thing. We're always told how we're all special little snowflakes (which is rather appropriate when you think about it). But I don't remember any large events with some guy playing an Evangelical telling me how special I am and shouting and carrying on. It's more of a culture of it. Not really a hugely organized thing, though.

And that seems to be all the questions. Hopefully, that helped somewhat.

 

[Callate]

I went to a fairly unusual school, an "alternative" public school that served grades 8-12 (that is, the six years before those who go off to colleges and universities do so, whereas in most these years are usually broken into two schools, "junior high" and "high school). Within that school students had an unusual amount of freedom in setting their own schedules, visiting different areas without permission during "off" hours, choosing extracurricular activities and even teaching "peer" classes for full credit. This is to say my "high school" experience was not typical.

That said, drama is drama. To expect a high school to be like it's portrayed in most film and television is a bit like thinking that Henry V's reign was all battles and speeches as portrayed in Shakespeare. There are moments of drama, and cliques are certainly enough of a real problem that a book like Queen Bees and Wannabes could get written and inspire a movie like Mean Girls. You get enough teenagers together, there certainly will be drama, particularly where issues like competition and ostracization are concerned. But most days, my impression is that most schools roll along on the daily business of being schools- places where young people go from class to class and try to absorb enough information to pass their tests.

As far as self-esteem coaching... Well, there's probably some truth to it; there's something of a trend right now where anything that threatens someone's self-esteem is considered taboo, sometimes to quite a ridiculous extent. It's perverse when we prize self-esteem to the point that no one can offer honest criticism that might lead to improvement, or to the point that it seems more important to speak with positive language than to work towards solutions to the problems that created the feelings of inadequacy and hopelessness in the first place. But, there you go... Hopefully it's just a phase and we'll get over it.