A DOTA 2 question: Tips for melee?

[BloatedGuppy]

I've got close to 40 games of DOTA under my belt now (I think I'm 19-17), and one thing that is beginning to really stand out for me is that...

1) I have no idea how to lane as melee
2) Very few other people do, either

If I get a nice ranged hero with a good nuke or a strong auto attack, and there's a melee in my lane, it's like Christmas. I just occupy myself with harassing the ever living shit out of that melee, and they seem helpless to oppose it. Worst they can do is stun me and try to roll down, but they expose themselves to my creep line and my partner doing that, and usually die in the process. I can burn their consumables and peck away at their health bar and drive them out of the lane in pretty short order, if not kill them. And god help them if I have Razor, or someone with a high damage AoE. It's almost impossible NOT to get hit by that if you're attempting to creep in melee range.

Is this just the life of a melee? Are you basically a poor man's carry, destined to life as a punching bag for 5-6 levels before you get some boots and a few tools to defend yourself? I find myself skipping strength heroes every time in Single Draft because they feel like meat for wolves during the laning phase, and if you fall behind hard during the laning phase you're probably going to spend the entire game as a chew toy.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

I know what you mean. I had a match last night, I was laning mid using Drow against Juggernaut.

Denied a lot of creeps and just harassed him at every chance I got. I think he eventually gave up and went top or something, leaving me to farm like hell and end up carrying the match.

With melee, I just hope I'm not laning against a strong ranged attacker, and if I am, I switch lanes with someone else.

 

[DasDestroyer]

All you really need to have a good lane as a melee is a good support, especially a healer, Dazzle is a favourite of mine to be supported by, when carrying as Void or Dragon Knight. Although admittedly, in your skill bracket, someone being good or playing support are rare enough on their own, and a good support is almost impossible to come by.
Another thing that can help is getting a hero that has some sort of evasion, like Brewmaster, Phantom Assassin or Void, since it makes you much harder to harass if you max their evasion early on, although admittedly that will make you less useful early game than if you max a nuke or stun first. If you're lucky enough to get a lane where you're up against all melee, then farming becomes a blast.
If I see that I have a crappy lane and I won't be getting too much farm as a carry in general, but this is especially prominent with melee, I often get a Hand of Midas right after boots, because once laning ends it will let you catch up significantly in terms of farm.
Also, a lot of melee heroes can be a huge threat in close range, for example Clockwerk or Earthshaker. If the enemy harasses me while I last hit, I wait for a good moment when they're standing near the creeps and walk up to them, and if they're silly enough to just stand there and shoot me, suddenly they get fissured away from their side of the map, or caught in cogs while my ranged lane partner kills them.
Finally, Stout Shield and Quelling Blade will greatly help your last hits. Just stand back until a creep gets low, walk up to it and take it, and if the enemy harasses you, you can generally brush it off with the damage block. Unless you're up against Drow. Fuck Drow.
But yeah, laning as melee is much more nuanced, you can't just stand back and get every single last hit not even giving a fuck who you're up against or laning with.
Edit: Oh, and don't forget ganks. If your mid gets a good gank in your lane, that can instantly turn the tide, if only because the enemy is now more afraid. If they manage a few more, you'll most likely be so far ahead that nothing will matter anymore.

 

[Skin]

Melees rarely if ever win against ranged. If you have high base damage, you stay back, go in for last hits, have a stout shield so the harass is minimal, and move back out of range and wait for another last hit.

In a public AP match, it doesn't even really matter what you do though. Chances are 8/10 of the heroes are melee and 7/10 are hard carries...

Teamwork >>>> skill

Edit: quelling blade is not a great pick up. Basically, you need whatever money to ferry regen over if you need it, or to get bottle or boots asap. Quelling blade slows you down for that greatly. Thats why I said you want a hero with high base damage. If you get a hero with low base damage with Q.Blade, Shield and tangoes combo, its alot easier to lose the lane.

 

[Jasper Jeffs]

If you're a melee carry you should only ever be laning in the safe lane, preferably with a strong support and a 2v1 lane. There's no real reason to be laning a melee carry anywhere else unless you have an aggressive trilane. If there is more than one hero in your safe lane then there are measures that can be taken to deal with them, having a support stacking and pulling the lane can deny experience for them and allow you to pull the lane past the tower and farm up without taking harass, leaving them overextended and easily gankable by your jungler (if you have one) or mid. If your support isn't doing that, then consider buying PMS, Magic Wand or Tranq Boots (which can be disassembled later on for Vlads if you want it) to deal with the harass and, if you're playing something like PL or DK, buy a Soul Ring and force them out of the lane with your nuke. Certain melee heroes can also completely shaft ranged heroes if they play well, some examples being Slark, Slardar, Brewmaster, Spirit Breaker, all of which benefit greatly from early aggression.

Really though, you've only played 40 games, people won't be that good, so just pick a ranged hero and fuck them up for their retarded picks.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Really though, you've only played 40 games, people won't be that good, so just pick a ranged hero and fuck them up for their retarded picks.

LOL. Fair enough.

I always play single draft, so sometimes I get stuck with two wildly complicated ranged heroes and end up picking the STR by default, and I almost always struggle. The one real exception was that time I got Ursa and turned into a monster in the late game.

Melees rarely if ever win against ranged. If you have high base damage, you stay back, go in for last hits, have a stout shield so the harass is minimal, and move back out of range and wait for another last hit.

Would you go so far as to recommend a stout shield for all melee? I usually get a mix of a town portal scroll, a salve, and a bunch of tangoes for whatever character I end up with, just to prolong how long I can hang in the lane, and cut down on any travel time getting back if I need to heal.

 

[Jandau]

The answer to this question depends radically on the specific heroes in question. "Melee" means little on its own. Dark Seer is melee and he's a great laner, especially for hard lanes (2v1) since he can farm with Ion Shell from a safe distance. Nyx is also melee, but he can demolish many enemies, especially INT heroes (lol Mana Burn). There's also the question of lane. Are you mid? Are you solo against 2-3 enemies? Are you 2v2? And so on and so forth.

In general, buy a Stout Shield. It's the simplest answer to being bullied by ranged. You don't even need to upgrade it, just hang on it until you need the inventory space.

Kill them. This depends on the hero you're playing, but all too often people don't seem to realize that the only reason their enemy is harassing them out of their lane is because they let him. Example: Once upon a time I was solo laning a Sand King against a Lina. It was a rough start, but once I hit level 6, I just jumped her and popped my ultimate. I didn't care about her spells, her ult or her stun, they were insufficient. Plenty of melee heroes can just up and murder squishy ranged heroes. Try learning Tiny, he destroys people in seconds.

Time your exposure to harass. Your likely instinct is to sit in the middle of the creeps and lasthit. Don't do that. Back off, wait until a creep is getting close to lasthit/deny range and then move in, do your thing and then back out. Don't just sit there and take it up the arse.

Lane swap. If you are stuck in a lane you can't handle, ask for someone to swap with you. Maybe you'll have better luck in a different lane.

 

[Skin]

Would you go so far as to recommend a stout shield for all melee? I usually get a mix of a town portal scroll, a salve, and a bunch of tangoes for whatever character I end up with, just to prolong how long I can hang in the lane, and cut down on any travel time getting back if I need to heal.

u fkn wot m8. TP at the start of the game? What for?

It always, always depends on the matchup. If your a hardcarry, sitting in a trilane with 2 supports, what would you need a stout shield for? For 1 v 1, when you have a hero that has high base damage against a ranged, stout shield is very good. But lets say they change things up and put you up against another melee, then stout shield is 100% useless. It all depends, and being a decent dota player means you have to make these big calls when the game starts.

Once you are confident you have the basics down, you should start playing CM only. Srs.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

u fkn wot m8. TP at the start of the game? What for?

It always, always depends on the matchup. If your a hardcarry, sitting in a trilane with 2 supports, what would you need a stout shield for? For 1 v 1, when you have a hero that has high base damage against a ranged, stout shield is very good. But lets say they change things up and put you up against another melee, then stout shield is 100% useless. It all depends, and being a decent dota player means you have to make these big calls when the game starts.

Once you are confident you have the basics down, you should start playing CM only. Srs.

In all honesty, single draft is what got me interested in the game in the first place. I like the random/lotto nature of it. I'm a guy who always played random in SC2 ladder as well.

My understanding of CM is that it is for Very Serious People, and I'm not sure I want to go there with DOTA yet. I'll be playing SC2 again when HOTS launches and that's quite enough competitive stress.

EDIT: Oh right...the TP scroll. Uh...you will mock me, but I STILL don't have a good handle on the courier yet. The one time I resolved myself to finally use it someone else was monopolizing it.

 

[Tanakh]

-snip-

I'll post some general stuff, each matchup is diferent:

- Melees in general hit harder and move faster, know what the fuck you are doing with your melee/lane and do that. If you are a 1 then just have a quelling blade (which will also help ringing or creep pulling), the armor component of tranquil boots (with are redonk OP on melee carrys and make their life much easier) and health regen then rush those tranquil and you should be golden, if you are a 3 then wait for the right time to jump on them (usually around level 3) and go fuck those squishy ranged noobs, this works better with some branches and decent healt regen items.

- Melees however are much more dependant on your lane partner (assuming a 2 or 3 man lane), if he is a retard, gg, that lane is lost.

- In the current meta only noobs would buy vanguard, poor man shields or stout shields. Why? Because Mek and Tranqul Boots are better in almost every scenario. That said, they are by no means bad items, just sub par, tough a case can be made for stout if you are a 3.

Honesty ranged has no inherent advantage, but melee requires a smidgen more coordination to execute. Anyway, while sucking at dota I do have some understanding of it and some experience in the high skilled/very high skilled brackets, so i might be able to point in the right direction.

Also, anything but All Random all the way baby.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

In the current meta only noobs would buy vanguard, poor man shields or stout shields. Why? Because Mek and Tranqul Boots are better in almost every scenario. That said, they are by no means bad items, just sub par, tough a case can be made for stout if you are a 3.

Hmm. Interesting. I do like Mek. I also like getting hats. I seem to always want to grab that hat that has armor and health regen for 950 gold. I don't know why. I just love that hat. I then turn it into a better hat.

 

[Tanakh]

My understanding of CM is that it is for Very Serious People, and I'm not sure I want to go there with DOTA yet. I'll be playing SC2 again when HOTS launches and that's quite enough competitive stress.

EDIT: Oh right...the TP scroll. Uh...you will mock me, but I STILL don't have a good handle on the courier yet. The one time I resolved myself to finally use it someone else was monopolizing it.

CM in mm pubs is a waste of time. A random guy will get captain and do stupid shit, or will do fine with a good strat that your team cant execute because they dont know how to play it. In short, CM without at least a stack is a joke, Random Draft is better and has all the tactical depth a mm game can give you.

Also, I am amazed at your bad courier use coming from SC2, wtf? Just assing 1 to your hero and 4 to the courer mang, you should feel right at home microing that shit. As for the use, mid can and should monopolize the courier if they need to, any other lane using it for bringin 1 item and shit? They suck and are wasting time (unless that item is a big one or WARDS).

As for the TP, NEVER start with a TP, then ALWAYS have a TP after min 6 at most. The only one that can skip a TP scroll after that is your 1.

Anyway, PM me if you want to play and actually use teamwork. I used to stack more, but nowdays my life is a little heretic so usually just run with 1 or 2 people that i happen to find free for a game.

 

[Ashhearth]

As far as melee hero's go it's more about being passive and playing the waiting game. You want to have someone who plays a ranged hero backing you up (hopefully a support with a stun but you can't always win there) that will just harass them and let you get close to the creeps for last hits. If they are being overly aggressive and pushing the creep line back call out to your mid so he can come in and get an easy gank.

It also depends on if you know how your hero should be played because some are not really meant to wade into the fight especially in the early game. As far as items go tango's are a must along with a few branches after that it really can be a personal preference and also depends on your lane. I would also hold off on the tp to start with because you can get one from the side shop if you really need to. Otherwise just play a bot game or two and get the courier figured out makes the game waaaaaay easier especially if you are playing mid.

 

[amxn]

I can usually lane melee's decently, unless the enemy team decides to ganks me. And also, never ever lane solo against a fucking sniper. Fucking range + ministun ~_~

 

[Tanakh]

Hmm. Interesting. I do like Mek. I also like getting hats. I seem to always want to grab that hat that has armor and health regen for 950 gold. I don't know why. I just love that hat. I then turn it into a better hat.

-Mek will give you (the carrier of it) almost the same ammount of sheer survability as Vanguard for a comparable ammount of gold, while giving your team a SHITTON better teamfight.

As for Iron will into HotD (the "better hat") humm... I wouldn't reccomend it if you are not a 1 and def not for a noob, BUT you should have decent enough micro, so if you buy it, just dominate a good neutral creep, asign it to a hotkey (mine is usually 2) and then at 53 secs use it to creepstack ancients.

 

[Tanakh]

I can usually lane melee's decently, unless the enemy team decides to ganks me. And also, never ever lane solo against a fucking sniper. Fucking range + ministun ~_~

Maaaan, i would 1v1 a sniper with any ganker or carry any day of the week, he is nothing special in damage unless you let him farm and will go down faster and harder than any other hero. The player needs to be godly at last hitting to survive 1v1.

 

[Richard Keohane]

I have no idea how to lane as melee

A) Don't tank the creeps. If you see you've gotten aggro, run back until the aggro breaks and return.
B) Keep moving to avoid spell harass
C) Learn your hero's attack animation to last hit properly (when appropriate, don't steal farm if you're the lane's support).
D) IF YOU ARE A MELEE CARRY: Have a laning partner with good lane harass. Lina, Shadow Demon, Crystal Maiden, Vengeful Spirit, and Enchantress are all good harassers and babysitters.
E) IF YOU ARE A MELEE SUPPORT: Go in only when you need to. If melee supports like Omniknight, Earthshaker, and Treant need to help out, they usually do so through spells. During ganks, running in to autoattack is easy because the enemy is either running (if you're ganking) or focusing the carry (if they're ganking).

And of course, always watch the Dotacinema guide for your hero (if available) and read up on your hero.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Also, I am amazed at your bad courier use coming from SC2, wtf? Just assing 1 to your hero and 4 to the courer mang, you should feel right at home microing that shit.

There's like 6 buttons on that fucking thing! Ain't nobody got time for that!

Really though, I'm still traumatized from that time I called it up during a bot game and they killed it. I don't want to be the guy who got the courier killed.

As for the TP, NEVER start with a TP, then ALWAYS have a TP after min 6 at most. The only one that can skip a TP scroll after that is your 1.

Yeah I think I'm going to start ditching the TP scroll. I think it's overkill early on, that's 135 I could spend on a stat item.

As for Iron will into HotD (the "better hat") humm... I wouldn't reccomend it if you are not a 1 and def not for a noob, BUT you should have decent enough micro, so if you buy it, just dominate a good neutral creep, asign it to a hotkey (mine is usually 2) and then at 53 secs use it to creepstack ancients.

When you say "a 1" I assume you mean alone in a lane?

 

[Lawnmooer]

How to lane as melee:

1) Try to be up against another melee (Not so easy in Pub games, a lot easier if doing scrims or such)

2) Try to have a support with you to harass, deny and pull to keep the lane in your favour

3) Stay back and only go into the creep wave long enough to get a last hit

4) Tranquil Boots are good against harass

5) Co-ordinate ganks against enemy heroes

6) Watch out for missing heroes and ganks against you (If need be, buy your own wards and ward up your lane)

Coming from someone who has a few hundred games playing melee carries.

 

[ischmalud]

dont eat the yellow snow - EVER!
that is all