A few thoughts about January 6, 2021

CM156

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These rioters are so lucky. Any other Government, at any other time, even in the modern world, would have classified them as enemy combatants, held military tribunals, and then taken them out back and shot them. Failed revolts, historically, don't lead to traitors being allowed to walk free.
Except with the Confederate States of America.
They really got kids gloves treatment.
 

SilentPony

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Except with the Confederate States of America.
They really got kids gloves treatment.
I mean unless we don't count the Civil War, shattering their entire economy, and 150 years of the Southern States being the poorest, least educated and more miserable states in the Union.
Although I would have outlawed use of the Confederate flag and statues like Germany did to the Nazis.
 
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CM156

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I mean unless we don't count the Civil War
Pretty mild as far as civil wars/putting down of insurrections goes at the time. The leaders of the CSA were never put on trial and lived out their lives as free men (after being arrested, although a few such as Judah Philip Benjamin managed to flee before that happened) Compare that to the summary executions of rebel leaders that was not unheard of at the time.

shattering their entire economy
I think the damage to the Southern economy is a bit overstated due to the large number of freedmen who ended up as sharecroppers in the post-Reconstruction South.

150 years of the Southern States being the poorest, least educated and more miserable states in the Union.
Partially (if not majority) the result of their own state policy.

Although I would have outlawed use of the Confederate flag and statues like Germany did to the Nazis.
See, I disagree with you there. Not just because of the First Amendment issues, but because it's useful to have these sorts of symbols around for identifying people.
 

Buyetyen

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See, I disagree with you there. Not just because of the First Amendment issues, but because it's useful to have these sorts of symbols around for identifying people.
I'm not sure I understand. Identifying people?
 
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CM156

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I'm not sure I understand. Identifying people?
There's no delicate way to put this, so I'll be direct.
Identifying people who should be avoided.
I run in some rather right-wing circles and even then we have a pretty ironclad rule of "no neoconfederates allowed." This is along with our other rule of "no fascists." We never had to enforce the latter (no fascists seemed to want to join our little group) but did have to enforce the former.
 
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SilentPony

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Allowing people to proudly display their abject stupidity, so that we may constantly mock and deride them as they deserve.
The problem with that level of tolerance is well...Jan 6th, when pro-Confederate traitors flying the Confederate flag stormed the US capital to kill politicians and successfully killed several officers. I don't think mocking them these past 150 years did much.
 
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Agema

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The problem with that level of tolerance is well...Jan 6th, when pro-Confederate traitors flying the Confederate flag stormed the US capital to kill politicians and successfully killed several officers.
Yes. It's amazing to think a couple of thousand hooligans achieved what an entire 4-year military insurrection failed to.

I like the idea of the headline, though: "Confederate militias storm the Capitol 160 years too late".
 

SilentPony

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Yes. It's amazing to think a couple of thousand hooligans achieved what an entire 4-year military insurrection failed to.

I like the idea of the headline, though: "Confederate militias storm the Capitol 160 years too late".
I mean some traitor did carry the Confederate battle flag of Virginia in the Riot


Although I do remember hearing that flag was never actually flown in combat and the history behind it was basically made up in the 60s.
 

Avnger

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So does this mean you also realize your mistake in supporting Trump, his policies, and his claims such as election fraud taking place?

Also, it's not like there was any defense left to these idiots other than insanity/mental deficiency. They planned their insurrection publicly and broadcast themselves taking part on social media.
 

gorfias

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So does this mean you also realize your mistake in supporting Trump, his policies, and his claims such as election fraud taking place?

Also, it's not like there was any defense left to these idiots other than insanity/mental deficiency. They planned their insurrection publicly and broadcast themselves taking part on social media.
No. I just think it is interesting that the guy's lawyer took this tack.
 

happyninja42

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No. I just think it is interesting that the guy's lawyer took this tack.
Well of course he is taking that tack, he can't even hope to try the tactic of "he is innocent", so he's trying damage mitigation. If he's an ethical lawyer, then he won't be doing anything to get him disbarred, like trying to blatantly lie in court, or allow his client to do the same. So, you try and add as many layers of "yeah he fucked up, but it's not 100% his fault" in the hopes of getting a reduced sentence.

We'll see if it works but, I mean that's the only legit play he has. I'm sure he's probably advised his client to just plead guilty, so they could try and cooperate and make deals to lessen punishment. But if the client say "nope, I want to fight it." well that ties the lawyer's hands in a lot of ways, on how to approach.
 
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CM156

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Well of course he is taking that tack, he can't even hope to try the tactic of "he is innocent", so he's trying damage mitigation. If he's an ethical lawyer, then he won't be doing anything to get him disbarred, like trying to blatantly lie in court, or allow his client to do the same. So, you try and add as many layers of "yeah he fucked up, but it's not 100% his fault" in the hopes of getting a reduced sentence.

We'll see if it works but, I mean that's the only legit play he has. I'm sure he's probably advised his client to just plead guilty, so they could try and cooperate and make deals to lessen punishment. But if the client say "nope, I want to fight it." well that ties the lawyer's hands in a lot of ways, on how to approach.
"My client is an idiot, but he's not a malicious idiot" is a step or two above the "it was just a prank, bro" defense. Not from a legal standpoint, but a moral one.

The usual arguments to be made are not available to him, so I guess he has to respond with this. He can't argue that his client wasn't there. This is a very well documented crime. He can't argue that his client wasn't aware of what it was he was doing: there are numerous pre-raid interviews where this Shaman lays out his worldview in crystal clarity. This man really thought he was doing something on par with the October revolution.

I feel like our friend is going to learn one of the harsh laws of history: If you win, it's a revolution; if you lose, it's sedition or treason.