A Formal Thread about Activision/Blizzard

Buyetyen

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You can't and that's why I don't feel that there should be direct compensations for anyone. Put money into funds that provide global benefits for employees instead, things like better medical coverage, more vacation days, paid meals, things that keep the work environment happy and general provide a better workplace overall.
So what I'm getting here is that nobody should get compensation because you're scared witless that someone you personally deem unworthy might receive it.
 
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Samtemdo8

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Are you suggesting that these men did not already have an inclination to harassment and assault and that their innocent minds were corrupted by the Devil's drink? Drinking on the job is a bad idea, but alcohol doesn't give you bad ideas. It just makes your bad ideas sound good.
Time to add some addendums, because I am aware that "getting rid of Alcohol alone is not gonna resolve the problem"

Should have emphasized that it would it still be a big step in improving. The other things we need is an actual effective human resources and get Bobby Kotick and other people responsible out.
 

MrCalavera

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Didn't we have people arguing in the other thread that the only way to combat injustice should be suing people?
 
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Samtemdo8

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Here is another article about it. I am immediately skeptical when accusers start demanding money. Because it stops being about preventing and punishing the abuser and instead becomes about people coming forward to get a cut of "free" money. Especially since it is too easy to throw out an allegation. The prinicple act of all of this should be about getting the company to clean up it's act. Compensation because someone made you feel uncomfortable should be WAY WAY down the list if at all present.

Just like the Netflix protest, the first thing out of their mouths was demands for money. There is no reason for it, and no valid excuse for why Netflix should pay someone cash because they put up a show that the employee didn't like.

Blizzard is a bit different, but the bottom line should be about stopping the behavior at the company, because when the answer is "give people money to shut the fuck up about it" it does nothing to change behavior. The behavior should be the primary goal to stop and prevent, not giving Sally a big check because Dan said her dress was nice today.

Also alcohol should absolutely be banned from any and all company functions forever and always. There is too much volitility in how people react to getting a bit sauced that it can't possibly be worth the risk.
This was streamed in Instagram? Sadly I have to log into Instagram to even watch it.
 

CriticalGaming

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So what I'm getting here is that nobody should get compensation because you're scared witless that someone you personally deem unworthy might receive it.
How would you feel being the actual victim of serious abuse, and find out that someone you KNOW was perfectly safe, also got compensated for abuse? Would that not upset you? What if the person who claimed abuse was actually one of the people doing the abuse and still they got paid. That would certainly upset me, it wouldn't upset you?

And why is your first reaction money? People who testify in court against abusers don't typically get a payday out of it, they get the justice of seeing the abuser put behind bars.

The idea is the betterment of the company and workplace for everyone, not the individual compensation for yourself which does what for your life? Does a few bucks make the abuse no longer matter? Does money make it okay again? How much money should a person get?
 

Buyetyen

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How would you feel being the actual victim of serious abuse, and find out that someone you KNOW was perfectly safe, also got compensated for abuse? Would that not upset you? What if the person who claimed abuse was actually one of the people doing the abuse and still they got paid. That would certainly upset me, it wouldn't upset you?
Are you suggesting that money is handed out with absolutely no investigation whatsoever? Again dude, you make a lot of assumptions, none of them correct.

And why is your first reaction money? People who testify in court against abusers don't typically get a payday out of it, they get the justice of seeing the abuser put behind bars.
Because you were the one who brought up the idea that somebody might get money you think they don't deserve.

The idea is the betterment of the company and workplace for everyone, not the individual compensation for yourself which does what for your life? Does a few bucks make the abuse no longer matter? Does money make it okay again? How much money should a person get?
What has given you the delusion that these things are mutually exclusive?

Didn't we have people arguing in the other thread that the only way to combat injustice should be suing people?
Dreiko, yeah. It's not easy, but he is in the running for "Most out of touch" on this forum.
 
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CriticalGaming

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Because you were the one who brought up the idea that somebody might get money you think they don't deserve.
If you read the rest of my post you would see that I think compensation should be provided to the entire workplace in the form of benefits of some kind. That way the company commits to making the workplace better for everyone, and everyone can benefit equally, which would alleviate any negative perceptions that could go around.
 

SilentPony

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Are you suggesting that money is handed out with absolutely no investigation whatsoever?
To be fair there's an entire cottage industry around IP law sharks and people just paying money to make something go away.
And companies do pay out the ass to settle harassment cases, usually without an investigation just so no one has anything to leak. Someone says someone did something somewhere at sometime? Cut them a check to go away and make sure they sign a paper saying they're going away.
Internal investigations, depositions, lawyers in conference rooms, mediation...those are all costly and time consuming and prone to leaks. Cutting a check is easy.
 

Buyetyen

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If you read the rest of my post you would see that I think compensation should be provided to the entire workplace in the form of benefits of some kind. That way the company commits to making the workplace better for everyone, and everyone can benefit equally, which would alleviate any negative perceptions that could go around.
So why are we waiting to do any of this until after a law is broken and somebody actually gets hurt? Do you try to solve all your problems by waiting around until it becomes an emergency? And you still haven't answered the question why compensating a victim and firing the offenders have to be mutually exclusive/

To be fair there's an entire cottage industry around IP law sharks and people just paying money to make something go away.
And companies do pay out the ass to settle harassment cases, usually without an investigation just so no one has anything to leak. Someone says someone did something somewhere at sometime? Cut them a check to go away and make sure they sign a paper saying they're going away.
Internal investigations, depositions, lawyers in conference rooms, mediation...those are all costly and time consuming and prone to leaks. Cutting a check is easy.
True, but that wasn't his point.
 

CriticalGaming

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True, but that wasn't his point.
Actually it is kind of my point. People know very much about this type of law sharking and my whole argument was to point out how easy it is for people to lie and a play victim for a settlement.

I agree everyone who did bad should be gone without exception. The priority should be on making a safe work environment, not worrying about who they need to cut a check too. And to someone who was a victim, shouldn't your first goal be, to just be safe? Or would you simpy feel "safer" if you had an extra $10,000 in your pocket?
 

Buyetyen

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Actually it is kind of my point. People know very much about this type of law sharking and my whole argument was to point out how easy it is for people to lie and a play victim for a settlement.

I agree everyone who did bad should be gone without exception. The priority should be on making a safe work environment, not worrying about who they need to cut a check too. And to someone who was a victim, shouldn't your first goal be, to just be safe? Or would you simpy feel "safer" if you had an extra $10,000 in your pocket?
Still not answering my question, huh? How are these things mutually exclusive?
 
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BrawlMan

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As for the woman that's suing them for money, I have no issue with this. I know there been people in the past that try to sue under false piece senses over something ridiculous, but this is a serious in dire event. Sacrifices must be necessary (Kingpin voice).

Considering how much Activision sacrifice those below them and got away with it, it will be a necessary sacrifice to lose as much as they can possible. Hit them where it hurts. Not only deserve to use all the money they gained and swindle, they all deserve to go to jail for a long time. Before anyone starts, I ain't listening to that whole you'll just be like them, or be worse than the bull crap. Bring all of their sins into the light. Show all the sexual harassment, the death and rape threats, and driving people insane over petty actions. Activision can fuck off and die.
 

Buyetyen

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Because one solves a problem, and the other just pushes it under the rug.
Por que no los dos?

You keep insisting that we can only do one, but you have yet to offer a satisfactory reason why outside of your own appeal to emotion.
 

CriticalGaming

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Por que no los dos?

You keep insisting that we can only do one, but you have yet to offer a satisfactory reason why outside of your own appeal to emotion.
I never said anything like that. I said we should do both, except that it should be applied in a different way opposed to direct payment.
 

Samtemdo8

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As for the woman that's suing them for money, I have no issue with this. I know there been people in the past that try to sue under false piece senses over something ridiculous, but this is a serious in dire event. Sacrifices must be necessary (Kingpin voice).

Considering how much Activision sacrifice those below them and got away with it, it will be a necessary sacrifice to lose as much as they can possible. Hit them where it hurts. Not only deserve to use all the money they gained and swindle, they all deserve to go to jail for a long time. Before anyone starts, I ain't listening to that whole you'll just be like them, or be worse than the bull crap. Bring all of their sins into the light. Show all the sexual harassment, the death and rape threats, and driving people insane over petty actions. Activision can fuck off and die.
I would find it amusing if EA buys the rights to Call of Duty.
 

Gordon_4

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Here is another article about it. I am immediately skeptical when accusers start demanding money. Because it stops being about preventing and punishing the abuser and instead becomes about people coming forward to get a cut of "free" money. Especially since it is too easy to throw out an allegation. The prinicple act of all of this should be about getting the company to clean up it's act. Compensation because someone made you feel uncomfortable should be WAY WAY down the list if at all present.

Just like the Netflix protest, the first thing out of their mouths was demands for money. There is no reason for it, and no valid excuse for why Netflix should pay someone cash because they put up a show that the employee didn't like.

Blizzard is a bit different, but the bottom line should be about stopping the behavior at the company, because when the answer is "give people money to shut the fuck up about it" it does nothing to change behavior. The behavior should be the primary goal to stop and prevent, not giving Sally a big check because Dan said her dress was nice today.

Also alcohol should absolutely be banned from any and all company functions forever and always. There is too much volitility in how people react to getting a bit sauced that it can't possibly be worth the risk.
In situations like this, its a two pronged punishment. The abuser(s) going to court and being found guilty is part of criminal justice narrowed down to the individual level; the monetary compensation would typically (but not always) be the result of civil court hearings - which if I remember rightly, was the stage these proceedings are still in - and are the punitive (I think that's the word) damages awarded to the abuse victim by the company for it happening on their watch because as interesting as it would be to try, you cannot put a corporate structure in jail because its not a person.

Though I do also believe that good practice is to award damages AFTER the criminal proceedings are done. Assuming there are any.

They'd just give it to poor Dice and run them even further into the ground.
Why would they bother? If they managed to pick up COD's rights for a firesale song, then they've basically beaten their rival forever because as Konami and EA have demonstrated: just because you have a valuable IP, doesn't mean you have to use it (unless it does).
 

TheMysteriousGX

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How would you feel being the actual victim of serious abuse, and find out that someone you KNOW was perfectly safe, also got compensated for abuse? Would that not upset you? What if the person who claimed abuse was actually one of the people doing the abuse and still they got paid. That would certainly upset me, it wouldn't upset you?

And why is your first reaction money? People who testify in court against abusers don't typically get a payday out of it, they get the justice of seeing the abuser put behind bars.

The idea is the betterment of the company and workplace for everyone, not the individual compensation for yourself which does what for your life? Does a few bucks make the abuse no longer matter? Does money make it okay again? How much money should a person get?
Civil courts do not have that power
 
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