A Group of 270 Scientists, Doctors, etc. Submit Open Letter to Spotify Regarding Joe Rogan (JRE)

McElroy

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Not at all; small businesses need not be 'sacrificed' by coronavirus restrictions, if they merely receive adequate support from the government. Governments have chosen not to provide that support.
It's the liberal democracy part once again. Making airtight restrictions is illegal.
Returning citizens and permanent residents made up a minuscule proportion of international traffic, even in early 2020. That level of international traffic could have been facilitated with mandatory screenings and proper testing/ tracing procedures. Instead, we had continuing international travel on a much larger scale, and non-functional testing/tracing.
Can't stop citizens from leaving the country either. You can look at mass spreading events and possibly point out how that particular person (who does their best to evade restrictions) could've been stopped with better screening and so on, but it only means there are risks actually everywhere but only some of them are realized. Most international travel worked just fine, even across the dreaded border with Russia. Until it didn't.
 

Gergar12

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Good he is essentially a Tim Pool like troll.
 

Generals

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Maybe listening to radio hosts and youtubers in general is a stupid idea.
Turning them away? no, that's immoral and doctors shouldn't be allowed to do that.
Putting them on low priority if the hospital is overloaded? Yes, why should people who couldn't be arsed getting a free vaccine cause others not getting proper care.
We're talking in the context of them coming for a severe case of Covid, right?
 
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CriticalGaming

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We're talking in the context of them coming for a severe case of Covid, right?
Well according to the "science" you wouldn't need to go to the hospital at all with covid if you are vaccinated right? So why should the hospital turn away the only covid patients that they get? Does the hospital turn people away with lung cancer because they smoked like, "Yup you've got cancer shouldn't have smoked dumbass, go fuck yourself now."
 

Generals

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Well according to the "science" you wouldn't need to go to the hospital at all with covid if you are vaccinated right?
What science have you been reading? Science is pretty clear, the vaccines severely reduce the chances you need hospitalization. Reducing isn't the same as totally removing. Additionally unvaccinated covid patients are also competing with non-covid patients in an overloaded system due to a severe Covid wave.

So why should the hospital turn away the only covid patients that they get? Does the hospital turn people away with lung cancer because they smoked like, "Yup you've got cancer shouldn't have smoked dumbass, go fuck yourself now."
No and that is because smoking is unfortunately extremely addictive and not so easy to get out of. I know plenty of smokers who would love to get rid of that desire to have a cigarette by getting a shot or two (or three?). Getting your vaccine requires only the effort of going to a vaccination center close to you.
Additionally one could mention the huge taxes that are usually put on cigarettes, maybe we should tax people who don't get the vaccine?
 
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Generals

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So is stupidity apparently.
Whoever is teaching you "science" about the vaccine would know...
Joke aside getting the vaccine is not a matter of stupidity though, just effort. You do not need to pass an IQ test to get a vaccine, just to get over yourself and take the damn shot. And if you don't because you don't believe mainstream doctors and scientists why are you even going to a hospital filled with mainstream doctors following mainstream science? Go to a shaman or your local priest for some faith healing...
 

Silvanus

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It's the liberal democracy part once again. Making airtight restrictions is illegal.
"Airtight" restrictions aren't necessary. Data shows that the actual lockdowns that were implemented caused transmission to near-flatline. And such lockdowns are obviously entirely legal.

They demonstrably worked. Then they were abandoned.

Can't stop citizens from leaving the country either. You can look at mass spreading events and possibly point out how that particular person (who does their best to evade restrictions) could've been stopped with better screening and so on, but it only means there are risks actually everywhere but only some of them are realized. Most international travel worked just fine, even across the dreaded border with Russia. Until it didn't.
Actually, yes, you can prevent people leaving for holidays/tourism/unnecessary business. And/or you can prevent the incoming traffic instead.
 
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Specter Von Baren

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Please note that calling this a group of doctors doesn't mean what they want you to think it does here. A lot of names on this list specialize in fields with no medical involvement. Could be the journalist is being "cheeky" and talking about doctorate knowing people will assume they mean physician but such is the way.
 

Silvanus

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Please note that calling this a group of doctors doesn't mean what they want you to think it does here. A lot of names on this list specialize in fields with no medical involvement. Could be the journalist is being "cheeky" and talking about doctorate knowing people will assume they mean physician but such is the way.
Well, gotta fight the Great Barrington Declaration at its own game...
 

CriticalGaming

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Mandates are really funny things. Apparently when your country is threatening to kick you out of power, you just remove all the mandates.


I find it funny that throughout this pandemic we've seen countless people in power, the people demanding regulations of their people, completely ignoring their own rules and claims. The virus is so dangerous and people need to be so careful of it, except when politicial leaders decide it's not such a big deal any more. The UK doesn't even require masks anymore. No vaccine cards. No limitations.

I guess covid is just gone for them huh? Or they are just going to live with it because it's not the big deal they've all pushed on us to be.

During a news report in Austrailia talking about how crazy overwhelmed the hospitals are due to covid killing people in huge numbers and stressing all the medical workers out.......a nurse accidentally dances her way into the camera, realizes her mistake and ackwardly walks away like nothing.


The media is pushing a narrative that keeps breaking down everytime they try to double down on it. Remember triple masking? Remember when Fauci said that people didn't need to mask? He funded this fucking thing, you would think he would know right? And even when he agreed with the mask mandates he was caught several times not wearing a mask in public places talking to people. Now only N95 masks work, yet there is no and has never been a mandate to push for N95 masks. Not even a cry for them. What the fuck is the point of all this shit that doesn't work?

Here's the bottom line. The intense distrust around everything Covid related falls EXCLUSIVELY on the shoulders of our leaders who made demands of the people that they themselves repeatedly refused to follow. Leading by example is the best way to get compliance from the public, and when you don't follow your own rules it looks like everything you say is fucking bullshit and people will treat it as bullshit.
 

CM156

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Here's the bottom line. The intense distrust around everything Covid related falls EXCLUSIVELY on the shoulders of our leaders who made demands of the people that they themselves repeatedly refused to follow. Leading by example is the best way to get compliance from the public, and when you don't follow your own rules it looks like everything you say is fucking bullshit and people will treat it as bullshit.
Oh, the leaders who flouted the rules they themselves had a hand in making should be taken to the woodshed (literally as much as figurately). Absolutely. But the science behind pathology and epidemiology doesn't change just because Boris Johnson is a coke-fueled (allegedly) hypocrite (not allegedly).
 

McElroy

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Not in our case. It obviously could've been better dealt with, but as I said a failure was inevitable. The requirements for declaring State of Emergency were only met during 3/2020 (3 weeks) and not since. I think I've been thorough enough explaining why blaming the spread of COVID in Finland on corporate greed is nonsense. Which was my intention.
 

Generals

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Here's the bottom line. The intense distrust around everything Covid related falls EXCLUSIVELY on the shoulders of our leaders who made demands of the people that they themselves repeatedly refused to follow.
No it falls on the shoulders of people like you who decide to spread mistrust of science because of what politicians do.
They found a lot of traces of Cocaine in the bathrooms of Westminster, so I guess we should all go sniff some ? Trump said in private he grabbed women by the pussy (without consent), does that invalidate anti sexual assault legislation? Politicians are hypocrites and usually people know that and acknowledge their hypocrisy doesn't invalidate the necessity of certain rules politicians themselves may break.

Leading by example is the best way to get compliance from the public, and when you don't follow your own rules it looks like everything you say is fucking bullshit and people will treat it as bullshit.
But here it's SCIENTISTS who are telling you to get vaccinated, wear a mask and avoid crowds. No one is asking you to listen to Joe Biden or Bojo, listen to the scientific consensus!

Stop focusing on the few examples of mistakes or hypocrisy you can find and instead look at the bigger picture. Be a part of the solution rather than the problem.
 
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CriticalGaming

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No it falls on the shoulders of people like you who decide to spread mistrust of science because of what politicians do.
umm....I don't spread anything. I don't talk about Rogan or any other podcast in my day to day life, or even on here. So I don't know why the fuck you are acusing me of anything.

But here it's SCIENTISTS who are telling you to get vaccinated, wear a mask and avoid crowds. No one is asking you to listen to Joe Biden or Bojo, listen to the scientific consensus!
Scientists aren't readily talked about on the news. Mandates and instructions come from our leaders based of what they are told by experts. You're average redneck isn't reading science articles or journals, so how are they supposed to get that info if the news and our leaders are not showcasing and leading them through this information?
 

Silvanus

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Not in our case. It obviously could've been better dealt with, but as I said a failure was inevitable. The requirements for declaring State of Emergency were only met during 3/2020 (3 weeks) and not since. I think I've been thorough enough explaining why blaming the spread of COVID in Finland on corporate greed is nonsense. Which was my intention.
It's not always corporate greed. The political failures to make the best available decisions have several other causes, too. In Finland's case, it sounds like it was constitutional/legal rigidity. If the constitution or the legal requirements don't allow a polity to take the necessary actions to save lives, then those restrictions are not in the country's interest.
 

McElroy

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necessary actions to save lives
Yeah well, more than necessary (or simply the wrong) actions were done imo. For instance, tracking infection sources and how that information was applied. If it's properly done and doesn't show communal spread getting out of control, restrictions should be light. Then after one part of the country declares they can no longer track infections, but another one can, the light restrictions should still continue in the trackable area. It took them until the delta wave of autumn 2021 to figure this out and instead had an in-between infinite maybe state in which areas (local officials) could selectively enforce guidelines based on hunches and individual cases.
 

Agema

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...a nurse accidentally dances her way into the camera, realizes her mistake and ackwardly walks away like nothing.
And...? That tells us nothing.

It's a nurse caught on camera doing some stupid dance moves. It doesn't mean she isn't stressed or overworked, or that there isn't a problem in the hospital and a huge number of other hospital staff aren't stressed and overworked.

Is it her way of coping? A little time out? Is she in a good mood at that moment despite everything? Who the hell knows? But it is surely the most incredibly absurd fallacy to think that because things are bad, everyone has to be scurrying around looking harassed and glum all the time. With simple introspection, we'd remember incidents in our lives where we've seen someone in difficult circumstances, even ourselves, crack a joke, play the fool, and that there are periods of lightness, relief as well. If we're going to pillory anyone who doesn't look appropriately miserable and refuse to have fun in a bad patch, we can suck up the extra suicides that will accompany it.