A Group of 270 Scientists, Doctors, etc. Submit Open Letter to Spotify Regarding Joe Rogan (JRE)

Thaluikhain

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If there is a mandate for anything, it should at least be that people who are medically able to get vaccinated and refuse, then wind up needing hospitalization from COVID, should be considered low priority over people with other life threatening conditions. Even now there simply isn’t enough space/personnel for everyone, and something’s got to give.
Bit of an awkward topic that, we treat smokers for lung cancer, drunk drivers, or criminals.

OTOH, if it's a question of who to treat, and people less likely to survive have to be written off, being unvaccinated is going to lean a person towards that group.
 

Agema

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If there is a mandate for anything, it should at least be that people who are medically able to get vaccinated and refuse, then wind up needing hospitalization from COVID, should be considered low priority over people with other life threatening conditions (although as Thaluikhain pointed out even those conditions should perhaps be more critically examined as well).
Nope.

The minute we start deciding who is deserving and who is not, it's fair game for society to decide literally anyone and anything as deserving and undeserving. There's a palpable "First they came..." risk. Broke your leg playing football? Well, that was your choice, sonny Jim. Hit by a car crossing the road? Your fault for going for a walk.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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Nope.

The minute we start deciding who is deserving and who is not, it's fair game for society to decide literally anyone and anything as deserving and undeserving. There's a palpable "First they came..." risk. Broke your leg playing football? Well, that was your choice, sonny Jim. Hit by a car crossing the road? Your fault for going for a walk.
Yeah that’s also true. I’d think all things considered though the level of care someone would have gotten shouldn’t need to be compromised due to the added burden placed on staff from those who shunned a free shot.
 

Thaluikhain

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Nope.

The minute we start deciding who is deserving and who is not, it's fair game for society to decide literally anyone and anything as deserving and undeserving.
Apparently they considered that idea in the US in the 60s. They got some non-medical types to come up with guidelines, and they ended up talking about who was more valuable to society, based on things like how involved they were in their church. It got leaked, there was outcry, it was binned.

It was really popular in Europe until the Soviets took a photo of their soldiers raising their flag on the Reichstag with Berlin in flames as the backdrop, of course.

I’d think all things considered though the level of care someone would have gotten shouldn’t need to be compromised due to the added burden placed on staff from those who shunned a free shot.
Absolutely agree that it shouldn't need to be compromised based on that, but then it shouldn't be based on any number of other things as well.
 

CriticalGaming

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I mean... I like Neil Young but I don't like his chances

He lost. As predicted. Joe Rogan is under contract and Neil Young is just an random catalog in the streaming library that probably doesn't get pulled up much.
 
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Agema

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He lost. As predicted. Joe Rogan is under contract and Neil Young is just an random catalog in the streaming library that probably doesn't get pulled up much.
In a sense.

In another sense, in a couple of decades no-one's going to give a flying fuck about Joe Rogan, but there will still be a lot of people who want to listen to Neil Young. Although in a couple of decades, Neil Young will probably be dead and his estate will have put his music back on Spotify for the $$$.
 
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Agema

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Incidentally, Joe Rogan just interviewed that other zeitgeisty Current Events person, Jordan Peterson.

Who, bizarrely, decided to launch an assault on climate science, a topic on which he evidently knows fuck all. Nevertheless, it is on a certain level amusing to watch JP demonstrate a little more obviously that he is little more than a baseline right wing hack.
 

Gordon_4

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If there is a mandate for anything, it should at least be that people who are medically able to get vaccinated and refuse, then wind up needing hospitalization from COVID, should be considered low priority over people with other life threatening conditions (although as Thaluikhain pointed out even those conditions should perhaps be more critically examined as well). Even now there simply isn’t enough space/personnel for everyone, and something’s got to give.
That is what the process of triage is for; but it is based on medical need/risk of death and nothing else. It is not a process that needs to be fucked with, especially now.
 

CriticalGaming

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In a sense.

In another sense, in a couple of decades no-one's going to give a flying fuck about Joe Rogan, but there will still be a lot of people who want to listen to Neil Young. Although in a couple of decades, Neil Young will probably be dead and his estate will have put his music back on Spotify for the $$$.
I mean, I feel like Joe Rogan is the modern day version of Howard Stern. Stern was wildly outrageous and nobody really took him seriously but people really enjoyed him because it was like talking with your friends. I feel like Rogan's podcasts have that same sort of vibe where he is just this meathead bro who wants to chat with as many interesting people as he can, and it's a formula that works.

In 20 years there will be a new Joe Rogan making a podcast or brain-stream that is controversial for beliving in human-robot marriage or whatever the fuck.
 

Trunkage

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I mean, I feel like Joe Rogan is the modern day version of Howard Stern. Stern was wildly outrageous and nobody really took him seriously but people really enjoyed him because it was like talking with your friends. I feel like Rogan's podcasts have that same sort of vibe where he is just this meathead bro who wants to chat with as many interesting people as he can, and it's a formula that works.

In 20 years there will be a new Joe Rogan making a podcast or brain-stream that is controversial for beliving in human-robot marriage or whatever the fuck.
I want tobe clear. Rogan chatting away is fine. It's when he's giving out medical advice that I have a problem with. Especially when he then criticises others because they give their own medical advice that doesn't agree with his
 

CriticalGaming

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I want tobe clear. Rogan chatting away is fine. It's when he's giving out medical advice that I have a problem with. Especially when he then criticises others because they give their own medical advice that doesn't agree with his
Meh, I mean I feel like if you are dumb enough to take medical advice from a podcast from a meathead buffoon, you just kinda deserve whatever you get.
 

Phoenixmgs

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It is unclear how much protection any form of immunity (vaccine or covid infection) provides. Natural immunity may be more variable than the vaccine. There is evidence immunity weakens over time irrespective of source of immunity, plus that it varies by individual. It is thus a reasonable thing to ask people to vaccinate to take fewer chances. In particular, even if there is enough immunity to protect the individual, a stronger response should reduce that individual's infectiousness to others.

Secondly, good messaging means clarity and simplicity. "Get vaccinated" is the clearest and simplest it gets. Aside from genuine medical exemptions, the more you muddy the waters, the more it confuses and provides gaps for people to justify opting out.
1643589640750.png

The CDC finally admits natural immunity is better. Antibodies wane but there's no evidence of T/B cells waning.

There's a ton of nuance in what each person should get as far as vaccination goes. There's really no point in those that got covid getting 2 doses and being "fully vaccinated" yet the policy in many places is to get fully vaccinated no matter what. What's the point in a say a college student being fully vaccinated and they got omicron and now some schools are making you get boosted or you're expelled. That makes no fucking sense scientifically at all. Some countries are not recommending the vaccine for kids either because it really doesn't make much sense.
 

Phoenixmgs

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The mask argument is all but over, and you are on the losing side. Give it up. You've been moving goalposts and trying to discount evidence as it suits you for months, and it's just pathetic watching you squirm.
The fact that you think masks work as some proven fact shows your extreme bias. You want them to work so you believe the data says they work. There is no data showing masks work. There's literally 2 randomized studies on masks and that's it. Even fucking "far left, must do everything possible to slow the spread" CNN has said masks are just facial decorations now. Now you gotta wear N95 masks even though your vaxxed. The vax is so good yet you gotta wear even better masks now, fucking shit messaging right there.

Because it's not usefully answerable. It's the pointless bleating of someone who doesn't understand how stuff works.

People would have died irrespective of what Fauci said: there is no counterfactual to work out how much difference what he said makes. Remembering here particularly that Fauci is a government advisor, and advisors do not decide policy. In terms of Joe Rogan, it is in practice impossible to separate out what effect he has from all the other societal inputs going into people's opinion.

My general stance though is that I have more respect for people who make the wrong decision because they don't have enough information to know better, and people who make the wrong decisions when they do have the information to know better. In which case, Fauci is leagues ahead of Rogan.
I knew the virus was here in February, it was common fucking sense. If I was asked the same thing Fauci was at that same time, I would've warned people that the virus was here, and the older you are, the more careful you should be. Other doctors were sounding the alarm in January. How many young healthy people have actually died from this virus? I'd be surprised if it was more than 100 in the US. Rogan's influence, even if every single young healthy person listened to him and followed his lead, would've been responsible for barely any deaths. There's probably more deaths over stupid social media challenges than what Rogan has caused.

Which is a shame considering you've spouted so much rampant bullshit over the last few years.

The reputations of public health experts are really important, because trust is essential to convincing people. It is not that Fauci is faultless, it is understanding that he has done his best to pass on evidence-based knowledge in good faith for the public good. Fauci is being heavily smeared because he offended against the cult of Trump for disagreeing with their orange god, by anti-government fanatics, and cranks with stupid ideas about what's good for people and think they know better. The result of this smear campaign is to greatly reduce the effectiveness of someone who (as far as I can see) is a well-meaning and responsible public servant.
What bullshit?

The reputation of the CDC is a joke regardless of what side you're on now (the left or right). The left has totally memed the CDC (the CDC says...) after they lowered quarantine from 10 or 14 days (I forget which it was) to 5 days even though that actually makes sense because there's no reason to need 10 days off from covid for most people with prior immunity. Why would I care about what Fauci says when he's always late to the party about everything? Why would I care about what the CDC director says when she spouts blatant lies (masks are 80% effective LMAO)?
 

Phoenixmgs

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What cost-benefit analyses actually show and what their limitations are has been pointed out to you multiple times. You don't read, you don't care. They're just another piece of flotsam you cling to whilst pretending the ship you've been sailing hasn't long since sunk.
Yet you have literally no evidence to prove your point whatsoever. SHOW ME DATA that I'm wrong. Who should I believe, someone on the Internet that provides no data and basically no argument or one of the most cited scientists in history?

Ha, funny coming from you.

We've seen time and again that evidence and stronger arguments don't mean shit to people.

Also, "Censorship is bad period", ha, no, just no.
This is how you go against someone like Malone.

Wait, we're now pro-censorship?
 

Phoenixmgs

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Just to be clear, Facebook and YouTube make it REAL easy to stay on their platform. You just have to not pretend anything is a miracle cure. Even the vaccine. Just say your vaccine, ass bleach or horse paste MAY help with Covid, instead of WILL

What might also help with your case is to not make up that you were made mRNA a thing. (He definitely helped, he didnt do the whole thing.) Or not pretending people are intellectually raping him. Or not threatening people because THEY partially helped the mRNA vaccine be a thing and they got the spotlight he clearly thinks he deserves. Or not still using a poorly written article to back up your point when it has been edited (after the researchers complained about their data being misidentified) to show that no longer supports your claim.

Or... not going on Bannon's podcast.

There's a of nots there and I didn't even get to the other guy
Youtube removed a video of top doctors saying kids maybe shouldn't wear face masks...

You don't have to convince me against Malone. I didn't say anything he said was right just that he should be able to say it. I just posted a video above this about how he isn't right.