A new Star Wars happened, and opinions are released upon us like nibbling hounds demanding biscuits

[Neurotic Void Melody]

Reviews, I meant reviews. And critics. Which sounds suspiciously like biscuits, but that doesn't quite align properly. Anymoo, the links are here;

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-42327904

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2017/12/12/review-star-wars-the-last-jedi-is-a-gloomier-flawed-but-ultimately-successful-sequel/

https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/12/16766570/the-last-jedi-review-rian-johnson-star-wars-daisy-ridley-adam-driver

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/dec/12/star-wars-the-last-jedi-review-episode-viii-rian-johnson

https://www.empireonline.com/movies/star-wars-last-jedi/review/

Spoiler: Dont watch this hype breakdown, yall...

The general consensus is positive, wonky middle, odd plot threads, but a fresh vision that might prove divisive for certain old fans.
Is anybody planning on seeing this? Am not really a classic 'fan' so-to-speak, but I think space adventure movies involving psychic neon ninjas hold far more potential than they're often presenting, so am always hopeful, as long as the characters and world are solid and (relatively) convincing.

 

[Cold Shiny]

I eat, drink, and breathe Star Wars, so I will be seeing this. I am very excited and I'm getting off the internet before some foo spoils it.
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Beware incoming "Rey is a mary sue" arguments.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

I just hope its not a remake of Empire Strikes Back. JJ isn't exactly known for his original work...

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

I just hope its not a remake of Empire Strikes Back. JJ isn't exactly known for his original work...

Umm, it's written and directed by Rian Johnson.

Can we just wait a year for people to say what they actually thought of the movie first like what happened with The Force Awakens?

Nope. You evidently haven't read anything about this whatsoever and are just assuming everything based on one film and a misguided delusion of wisdom.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

I just hope its not a remake of Empire Strikes Back. JJ isn't exactly known for his original work...

Umm, it's written and directed by Rian Johnson.

Can we just wait a year for people to say what they actually thought of the movie first like what happened with The Force Awakens?

Nope. You evidently haven't read anything about this whatsoever and are just assuming everything based on one film and a misguided delusion of wisdom.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0009190/

He was a producer on Last Jedi

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Saw the movie this morning. It's the weaker of the new batch, as far as I'm concerned.

I just hope its not a remake of Empire Strikes Back.

The movie will likely be a rehash of the second film of the trilogy with the obligatory downer ending and maybe Ray losing an arm. heck, most secondary trilogy films fall into that category (Pirates 2, for example) and I don't expect the new movie to be a bastion of originality.

The movie could be construed as a vague rendition of Empire Strikes Back because of some very obvious parallelisms but it's nowhere near a beat-by-beat remake like Force Awakens was of the 1977 movie.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Beware incoming "Rey is a mary sue" arguments.

It's not as egregious in this movie, fortunately, though...

Spoiler: Spoiler from the movie!

...of course she has to best Luke in a duel.

Other than that they toned down the Mary Sue thing.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0009190/

He was a producer on Last Jedi

Which means nought when it comes to the creation process.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0009190/

He was a producer on Last Jedi

Which means nought when it comes to the creation process.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: it doesn't matter who helms these board room movies.
And as for producers having shit to do with the "creation process", remind me who made The Nightmare Before Christmas?

 

[Wintermute_v1legacy]

I'll pass. I saw The Force Awakens and it only served to remind me that I don't like these movies. I'll watch that RLM video though because why not.

 

[Trunkage]

Can we just wait a year for people to say what they actually thought of the movie first like what happened with The Force Awakens?

The movie will likely be a rehash of the second film of the trilogy with the obligatory downer ending and maybe Ray losing an arm. heck, most secondary trilogy films fall into that category (Pirates 2, for example) and I don't expect the new movie to be a bastion of originality.

It's totally going to original because Rey actually loses a leg, not an arm. totally different

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0009190/

He was a producer on Last Jedi

Which means nought when it comes to the creation process.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: it doesn't matter who helms these board room movies.
And as for producers having shit to do with the "creation process", remind me who made The Nightmare Before Christmas?

So we're just going to ignore the writer and director, the editor, cinematographer, art director, the 3 casting crew members, the 11 other producers and the fact that 'executive producer' is as meaningless a credit as you can get just so one name people can easily hate is focused on? Fucking really?

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Beware incoming "Rey is a mary sue" arguments.

It's not as egregious in this movie, fortunately, though...

It didn't seem 'egregious' at all. I mean Anakin? Fantastic pilot at 9 years old. Humans don't even have properly developed spatial awareness at 9.

Luke? Fantastic pilot that, by his own admission, hadn't actually been to the academy yet can pilot a military fighter.

...of course she has to best Luke in a duel.

So? Luke beat Darth Vader.

Other than that they toned down the Mary Sue thing.

Can people please outline this argument for me?

All the movie protagonists have been fantastic pilots. All of them defeat opponents that should be vastly superior to them.

And before anyone starts, Rey was a tech scavenger and mechanic. And Han in The Empire Strikes Back is shown not to be so good with machines. Moreover, in that scene you also seen him cannibalizing parts from one part of the ship to replace parts elsewhere ... which is supposed to suggest that maybe he doesn't keep his ship in decent knick, and it's meant to humanize the Millenium Falcon as to be truly representative of its owners.

Finding 'interesting' solutions to problems, self-sufficiency, and 'controlled chaos', that remarks the the idea of the marred scoundrel both within and without...

The idea that the Millenium Falcon actually flies and performs under pressure regardless of its shambolic and unreliable nature, is a metaphor for the pilots themselves...

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0009190/

He was a producer on Last Jedi

Which means nought when it comes to the creation process.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: it doesn't matter who helms these board room movies.
And as for producers having shit to do with the "creation process", remind me who made The Nightmare Before Christmas?

So we're just going to ignore the writer and director, the editor, cinematographer, art director, the 3 casting crew members, the 11 other producers and the fact that 'executive producer' is as meaningless a credit as you can get just so one name people can easily hate is focused on? Fucking really?

I know a design-by-committee movie when I see one. Disney's Star Wars?

Designed by commitee.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Beware incoming "Rey is a mary sue" arguments.

It's not as egregious in this movie, fortunately, though...

It didn't seem 'eggregious' at all. I mean Anakin? Fantastic pilot at 9 years old. Humans don't even have properly developed spatial awareness at 9.

I know, it's almost as if Phantom Menace sucked balls. Crazy.

Luke? Fantastic pilot that, by his own admission, hadn't actually been to the academy yet can pilot a military fighter.

Good thing the Force guided that one shot too.

...of course she has to best Luke in a duel.

So? Luke beat Darth Vader.

... you've seen Empire Strikes Back right?

Other than that they toned down the Mary Sue thing.

Can people please outline this argument for me?

All the movie protagonists have been fantastic pilots. All of them defeat opponents that should be vastly superior to them.

It's not that she defeats better opponents so much as proving that she's better than established characters at the thing they've been established for (Han as a mechanic, Chewie as a pilot, Luke as a swordsman, etc). That's fanfic prose. And she does it immediately too. "Luke beat Darth Vader". Uh, yeah, by the third movie and four years into the story.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

I know, it's almost as if Phantom Menace sucked balls. Crazy.

Phantom Menace did, but then again I doubt all problems of the movie can be tied to Anakin being good with machines.

Good thing the Force guided that one shot too.

Wow, so who are you calling a Mary Sue again? The Force doesn't make people natural pilots. Obi? How about Leia? You don't see her taking the controls of one of the turrets, despite objectively being better (if the Force just made you good with spaceships) than taking away one pilot from the helm.

... you've seen Empire Strikes Back right?

You've seen RotJ?

It's not that she defeats better opponents so much as proving that she's better than established characters at the thing they've been established for (Han as a mechanic, Chewie as a pilot, Luke as a swordsman, etc). That's fanfic prose. And she does it immediately too. "Luke beat Darth Vader". Uh, yeah, by the third movie and four years into the story.

Han is an appalling fucking mechanic, and Chewie hasn't ever been shown to be a decent pilot. Lando Calrissian took first pilot helm of the Millenium Falcon at the Battle of Endor, if Chewie was such an exceptional pilot who knew the MF why didn't he fight in space above Endor?


Han is seen in that scene both needing help from a near total stranger, is also informed he hasn't even standardised his computers, and is actively cannibalizing some parts of his vessel in order to repair others, and ontop of all that purposefully annoying and distracting Leia from fixing his ship for him.

Is Leia a Mary Sue simply because she seems to know more about fixing starships than Han?

The Millenium Falcon is a metaphor for Han. Unreliable, shambolic, but manages to perform under pressure. A rogue within and without. The Millenium Falcon represents Han's character flaws coming back to bite him in the arse ... but also their capacity for redemption and self-sufficiency.

Whereas Rey actually has reasons why she understands machines... Han is repeatedly shown in the original trilogy to be terrible at keeping his machines in proper working order. Almost with cataclysmic results as to his chronically putting off necessary repairs and working on his vessel, until suddenly he needs to get out of dodge.

The Millenium Falcon is the foil to Han Solo's recklessness, not a testament to his skill ofkeeping it together because repeatedly he relies on other people to do that for him.

 

[Asita]

Other than that they toned down the Mary Sue thing.

Can people please outline this argument for me?

It didn't really come to the forefront until the tail end of the Force Awakens, but by the time the film ended she'd become a fairly paint by numbers fanfic OC. I mean let's outline her character for a minute.

For undisclosed reasons, she was left by her (almost certianly important) family in a cutthroat town where she had to scavenge parts to survive. The work was hard, the food in short supply, but despite growing up in a hive of scum and villainy, she kept her moral compass and would sooner go hungry than turn over a droid she just met. She's a talented scrapper, a capable mechanic. She quickly becomes a pilot on par with Lando (Return of the Jedi), Han, Chewie, and Leia almost immediately become fond of her, oh and she isn't just Force Sensitive, but insanely powerful and gifted in the Force (to the degree that the antagonist - also noted to be insanely powerful in the Force and trained in its use - found her countering and overpowering his force abilities despite the fact that she at the time wasn't even aware that she was Force Sensitive). Oh, and she ends up in possession of Anakin's Lightsaber and the Millennium Falcon, and as Chewie's apparent new BFF.

Now I know the inclination to take these point by point, but it's not that any one of them is a red flag, it's the accumulation of them. Strong in the Force? Fair game. Moral Compass in a hive of scum and villainy? Not the most original archetype but it's a well loved one for good reason. Great pilot? Par for the course, really...although the execution left much to be desired. Strong Force Sensitive who overpowers the not-Sith in the first movie, inherits the Falcon, is chosen by Anakin's lightsaber, apparently gets Chewie as a sidekick, has mysterious but seemingly significant parentage, is a good to great mechanic, shows exceptional piloting ability with a notoriously finicky ship she'd never handled...? It piles up and if nothing else it shows surprising blindness to "Bad OC" habits.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Now I know the inclination to take these point by point, but it's not that any one of them is a red flag, it's the accumulation of them. Strong in the Force? Fair game. Moral Compass in a hive of scum and villainy? Not the most original archetype but it's a well loved one for good reason. Great pilot? Par for the course, really...although the execution left much to be desired. Strong Force Sensitive who overpowers the not-Sith in the first movie, inherits the Falcon, is chosen by Anakin's lightsaber, apparently gets Chewie as a sidekick, has mysterious but seemingly significant parentage, is a good to great mechanic, shows exceptional piloting ability with a notoriously finicky ship she'd never handled...? It piles up and if nothing else it shows surprising blindness to "Bad OC" habits.

But none of these traits are exclusive to Rey. Anakin, great mechanic, strong in the force, a phenomenal pilot, and a strong moral code in a wretched hive of scum and villainy. The most annoying thing is how repetitive it is, but it's not the Wesley Crusher of Star Trek.

Heaven forbid if we had a Jedi who used the force to protect medical problems in surgery and didn't want to betray that Obi sense of deception, trickery and nonviolent resistance. Maybe actually evolve the moral compass beyond having the capacity to kill for #suspense. Something that evolved the idea beyond waving a laser deathstick at people with pithy little 2c diatribes of morality.

I'm tired of the repetitive, formulaic, retreaded ground. Less Mary Sue, more been there and done that.

From episode 4 we know blasters have a stun feature. How many Jedi use it? Precisely zero... even when they have the capacity to.