A professional, objective, apolitical future for The Escapist...

Stewie Plisken

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I'm sorry, is this really an 8-page-thread about a new contributor's personal politics? I read the title and I'm pretty sure it's meant in a sarcastic way, a jab at pro-GamerGate users and I'm sitting here wondering what exactly is the OP's point?

No really, do inform me. What exactly is the point of this thread? To point out you dislike the new guy's personal politics? Okay then. Or is it to support the notion you don't want someone whose personal opinions and politics you disagree with working on anything you read? That includes everyone else here, too. How exactly do you expect anyone to hire someone apolitical? What the hell does that even mean? Who doesn't have an opinion and stance on politics?

When such politics start seeping heavily into his work, we can talk about this again. Until then, I jot this down as a temper-tantrum.
 

Bat Vader

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I'll be honest here. I don't really care what type of turns The Escapist takes. I couldn't care any less about politics of any kind. I want to see The Escapist bring back the fun events they used to have every few months. I'm guessing March Mayhem isn't happening this year which is sad because I really like it. I would love to see another Escapist Puzzle Adventure that happened a few Decembers ago. That was really fun. I miss those types of things.
 

FirstNameLastName

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Ambient_Malice said:
Are we forgetting the astounding left wing bigotry of Bob Chipman? His hate filled rants against anyone and everyone who disagreed with him on a wide range of issues? His rants where he called people "subhuman", and pined for the day when all the right wingers are finally going to be swept from power so the glorious era of progress can dawn?

Because I'd hate to think there was some sort of double standard where people can do whatever the hell they want so long as they have the "right" opinions.
Bob was brought up in the second post ... and pretty much every other post afterwards.
 

KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime

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Jan 12, 2010
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Stewie Plisken said:
I'm sorry, is this really an 8-page-thread about a new contributor's personal politics? I read the title and I'm pretty sure it's meant in a sarcastic way, a jab at pro-GamerGate users and I'm sitting here wondering what exactly is the OP's point?

No really, do inform me. What exactly is the point of this thread? To point out you dislike the new guy's personal politics? Okay then. Or is it to support the notion you don't want someone whose personal opinions and politics you disagree with working on anything you read? That includes everyone else here, too. How exactly do you expect anyone to hire someone apolitical? What the hell does that even mean? Who doesn't have an opinion and stance on politics?

When such politics start seeping heavily into his work, we can talk about this again. Until then, I jot this down as a temper-tantrum.
Mostly it's because of his blatantly transphobic statements that the thread got this long, but they're also the statement that got the thread started.
 

Addendum_Forthcoming

Queen of the Edit
Feb 4, 2009
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KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
It's mostly because people like that refuse to comprehend that there are people different from them, and people who behave differently than they're used to. One of the biggest things is they're used to a very basic rule set, especially when it comes to identifying other people. When someone behaves differently to what they're used to, it scares the living hell out of them.
Can you be my PR consultant? :)

You know, it might simply be the monotone of forum based communications, but half of stuff like this I confronted when I was in the workforce was jokes (that I was a part of). My team knew I was in charge, and that most humans (90%) I have ever met, know the difference between joking and crossing the line. This is healthy. No. 1 rule of Australian humour. Nothing is scared, especially your beliefs and your self value. You crack wise, you crack wise about yourself and you take it on the chin.

I'll tear someone apart, they tear me apart, both people laugh.

But then you meet that 10% of people. It's not really a joke, because there's no retraction or self-deprecation. Their jokes go on far longer ... they sprinkle a little too much lemon juice on the point where it becomes tinged with spite. Where no one is laughing anymore and no one feels comfortable barring the person still dribbling a toxic stream of disparagement.

Being trans is one of those things you realize people feel passionately about even without ever having met a trans person or having gotten to know them. Honestly, it gets to a point where you realize that a good 10% of people are arseholes, born and bred, who need something to despise. It that moment you know true pettiness ... anything you say is an understatement as to what these types of people portray and represent.

I'm an arsehole, but that's because I'm thin-skinned. But I would think I'm reasonable enough to get to know someone beyond picturing what may or may not be in their drawers. It's hard enough to have people consider you as you present and identify as, it's going to be a century before people get past the notion of you being trans in the first place. Like a lighter ball and chain you're fighting for, knowing full well it's merely a smaller burden instead of true liberty. It's pretty disheartening really.
 

Hoplon

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Mar 31, 2010
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Stewie Plisken said:
I'm sorry, is this really an 8-page-thread about a new contributor's personal politics? I read the title and I'm pretty sure it's meant in a sarcastic way, a jab at pro-GamerGate users and I'm sitting here wondering what exactly is the OP's point?

No really, do inform me. What exactly is the point of this thread? To point out you dislike the new guy's personal politics? Okay then. Or is it to support the notion you don't want someone whose personal opinions and politics you disagree with working on anything you read? That includes everyone else here, too. How exactly do you expect anyone to hire someone apolitical? What the hell does that even mean? Who doesn't have an opinion and stance on politics?

When such politics start seeping heavily into his work, we can talk about this again. Until then, I jot this down as a temper-tantrum.
Way to read the original post there guy, i't almost like you didn't bother and posted anyway there by just regurgitating some of what was said there and missing the question "how is a guy that talks politics constantly meant to do geek cultures stuff in the new 'just about the games and stuff' future the EiC talked about".
 

Stewie Plisken

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Hoplon said:
Way to read the original post there guy, i't almost like you didn't bother and posted anyway there by just regurgitating some of what was said there and missing the question "how is a guy that talks politics constantly meant to do geek cultures stuff in the new 'just about the games and stuff' future the EiC talked about".
That was not the question that was asked.

However, I've found more red-flags about this guy in the space of a few hours than anyone managed to find of all the supposed 'biased', 'unprofessional' contributors the site just jettisoned, and even then, the inconsistency of this being one of the first hirings the site makes after the announcement of a more 'light hearted, apolitical' direction, is pretty fucking glaring.
The "red flags" clearly refer to the guy's personal politics. Considering we don't even know what his contribution to the site will be, that's a pretty big goddamned leap right there. If his politics leaned the other direction, would the OP post the exact same thread? Seeing the doom and gloom in this forum since Defy let go of previous contributors, I'll put my money on "no". I may lose it, but there's plenty reason to think I won't.
 

IceForce

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Stewie Plisken said:
I'm sorry, is this really an 8-page-thread about a new contributor's personal politics? I read the title and I'm pretty sure it's meant in a sarcastic way, a jab at pro-GamerGate users and I'm sitting here wondering what exactly is the OP's point?

No really, do inform me. What exactly is the point of this thread? To point out you dislike the new guy's personal politics? Okay then. Or is it to support the notion you don't want someone whose personal opinions and politics you disagree with working on anything you read? That includes everyone else here, too.
Wow, so much misinformed nonsense in this post, I don't even know where to begin.

This thread serves much the same purpose as a certain other thread did.
Strange I didn't see you posting a similar sentiment in that thread?

Why is it okay to fixate on MovieBob's tweets, but not Mr Morse's? Mr Morse is getting exactly the same treatment that Bob got, and that's what purpose this thread serves.
Stewie Plisken said:
How exactly do you expect anyone to hire someone apolitical? What the hell does that even mean? Who doesn't have an opinion and stance on politics?
Maybe you should ask the Editor in Chief?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/18.870660.21825010

"We're making deliberate efforts to focus on the games, the movies, the comics, and not the politics that surround them."

If they truly wanted someone non-political, then it's absurdly strange of them to appoint someone who spends a lot of their time posting heavily politically charged (and potentially offensive) rants on twitter.
 

Stewie Plisken

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IceForce said:
Wow, so much misinformed nonsense in this post, I don't even know where to begin.

This thread serves much the same purpose as a certain other thread did.
Strange I didn't see you posting a similar sentiment in that thread?

Why is it okay to fixate on MovieBob's tweets, but not Mr Morse's? Mr Morse is getting exactly the same treatment that Bob got, and that's what purpose this thread serves.
Because Chipman was already a contributor, his work was already on display in this very site and he wasn't speaking about his personal politics, but rather being entirely unprofessional with his very audience? Can you really not tell the difference?

IceForce said:
Maybe you should ask the Editor in Chief?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/18.870660.21825010

"We're making deliberate efforts to focus on the games, the movies, the comics, and not the politics that surround them."

If they truly wanted someone non-political, then it's absurdly strange of them to appoint someone who spends a lot of their time posting heavily politically charged (and potentially offensive) rants on twitter.
It's strange why exactly? Have you seen his work in the Escapist? Can you point me to anything he has written for the site?
 

Moeez

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This place was gamergate central before these new hires (look at how toxic the threads have become), and now they're just making it official that The Escapist caters to those kind of people. Adding in people who have nothing to do with games to talk about games is going to be a hilarious trainwreck. Might as well add Adam Baldwin as a contributor, since you don't need any previous videogame writing or critic experience to join here.
 

IceForce

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Stewie Plisken said:
Because Chipman was already a contributor, his work was already on display in this very site and he wasn't speaking about his personal politics, but rather being entirely unprofessional with his very audience? Can you really not tell the difference?
Are you implying that transgender people are not intended to be part of Mr Morse's audience? Really?

Because just as Gaters found Bob's comments offensive, so too have transgender people (many of whom have posted in this thread) found Mr Morse's comments offensive as well.
 

Knight Captain Kerr

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Stewie Plisken said:
IceForce said:
Wow, so much misinformed nonsense in this post, I don't even know where to begin.

This thread serves much the same purpose as a certain other thread did.
Strange I didn't see you posting a similar sentiment in that thread?

Why is it okay to fixate on MovieBob's tweets, but not Mr Morse's? Mr Morse is getting exactly the same treatment that Bob got, and that's what purpose this thread serves.
Because Chipman was already a contributor, his work was already on display in this very site and he wasn't speaking about his personal politics, but rather being entirely unprofessional with his very audience? Can you really not tell the difference?
Morse is about to become a contributor and if he insults LGBT people he is insulting a portion of his audience.

If his personal politics were that he's racist and he insults black people then he would be insulting a portion of his audience.
 

NinjaDeathSlap

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Feb 20, 2011
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Ambient_Malice said:
Are we forgetting the astounding left wing bigotry of Bob Chipman? His hate filled rants against anyone and everyone who disagreed with him on a wide range of issues? His rants where he called people "subhuman", and pined for the day when all the right wingers are finally going to be swept from power so the glorious era of progress can dawn?

Because I'd hate to think there was some sort of double standard where people can do whatever the hell they want so long as they have the "right" opinions.
Melodrama aside, no. Nobody is forgetting anything. Back when Bob was a contributor, there were several debates about his Twitter behaviour. In those debates, several people who generally agreed with his stance (myself included) thought his actions were unprofessional and that he should either tone it down or take a long sabbatical from Twitter. What's more, several of these debates took place in Th Brovengers chat. Y'know, that place that keeps being called a liberal hive of scum and villainy that has all the mods in its pocket and apparently wants to cleanse the site of anyone who wants to question the contributors.

I just love it when people conflate calling out one person for having certain views, with giving everyone who holds the opposing views a free pass. No, really, it never gets old. ¬.¬

Stewie Plisken said:
I'm sorry, is this really an 8-page-thread about a new contributor's personal politics?
I know, it's almost like politics matters regardless of what the sites management would like to pretend, isn't it?

Stewie Plisken said:
I read the title and I'm pretty sure it's meant in a sarcastic way,
Well spotted.

Stewie Plisken said:
a jab at pro-GamerGate users
It's actually a jab at inconsistencies between the stated intent of the site's management and their actions, as I have explained several times.

Bring GamerGate into this if you must, but it's not actually the centre of all discussion surrounding this website or gaming culture at large, you know.

Stewie Plisken said:
and I'm sitting here wondering what exactly is the OP's point?
Reading beyond the title might give you some idea.

Stewie Plisken said:
To point out you dislike the new guy's personal politics?
I won't deny, that's part of it.

Stewie Plisken said:
Or is it to support the notion you don't want someone whose personal opinions and politics you disagree with working on anything you read? That includes everyone else here, too. How exactly do you expect anyone to hire someone apolitical? What the hell does that even mean? Who doesn't have an opinion and stance on politics?
That is exactly my point, as I have explained several times in this thread! I, personally, do not want an apolitical escapist, nor do I think such a thing is even possible. However, when reading posts like this...

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/18.870660.21825010

It's clear that the big players on the staff do. So, when they're first move after canning a bunch of people known to hold political views on one side of the fence, is to fill their places with equally outspoken people from the other side of the fence, it raises questions in the vein of "Um, excuse me, but what in the name of Billy Blue Fuck is going on?!"

I'm all for politics. However, I also think that, while not all issues are created equal, the playing field on which they are contested must be. Moves like this look fishy, to say the least.

Stewie Plisken said:
When such politics start seeping heavily into his work, we can talk about this again. Until then, I jot this down as a temper-tantrum.
Well, it would certainly help if we got one word from the management as to what he's actually coming here to do (I mean, have they even figured it out yet?). At the moment, I'm left with what I can see; and from what I can see, the man's politics is his work. If he's coming here, fine. Hell, if he wants to be political in his content on the site, that's also fine as far as I'm concerned, because I actually like debating with people I disagree with, so long as he can actually have that debate with some respect and decency, which he doesn't seem to have shown in any of the examples I and others have pointed out. My point, is that the words and actions of management do not match, and that his personal politics will be a relevant factor to anyone willing to give him money if he continues expressing himself in this manner, both here and elsewhere.
 

Stewie Plisken

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IceForce said:
Stewie Plisken said:
Because Chipman was already a contributor, his work was already on display in this very site and he wasn't speaking about his personal politics, but rather being entirely unprofessional with his very audience? Can you really not tell the difference?
Are you implying that transgender people are not intended to be part of Mr Morse's audience? Really?

Because just as Gaters found Bob's comments offensive, so too have transgender people (many of whom have posted in this thread) found Mr Morse's comments offensive as well.
No. What? What are you talking about?

His position is entirely political. Chipman's was related directly to the industry he was working in. Chipman displayed time and again a lack of understanding of the audience and the working of an industry he was working on. Chipman was unprofessional, because he was already working when he made those comments.

Morse's view on transgender issues have been taken separate to his work and (most probably) do not reflect the subject of his work here. You are literally asking to blacklist him, because of his personal views on entirely unrelated issues.
 

JemothSkarii

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Nov 9, 2010
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IceForce said:
Are you implying that transgender people are not intended to be part of Mr Morse's audience? Really?

Because just as Gaters found Bob's comments offensive, so too have transgender people (many of whom have posted in this thread) found Mr Morse's comments offensive as well.
While at risk of placing myself in the firing line here, this kind of sentiment is common.

"Because Gaters did X"

"X happened because Gaters"

"Gaters didn't like X so..."

I don't quite get it. I'm not a Gater (I'm more of the 'Why argue about video games when I can play them?' kind of person) and I found Bob's stuff 'offensive'. More overzealous if anything. I'm sure there are other people that aren't Gaters that weren't pleased with him.

Why is it always GamerGate/'Anti'GamerGate's fault?

I hear GamerGate is quite small and unimportant so why are they accused of causing so many things?
 

Zhukov

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Dec 29, 2009
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Ambient_Malice said:
Are we forgetting the astounding left wing bigotry of Bob Chipman?
You mean the guy who got fired?

Some have suggested his being an unprofessional dick on Twitter was what lost him his contract. Or at least contributed to it.

Yeah, sure would hate to think there was a double standard at work here, huh?
 

Stewie Plisken

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NinjaDeathSlap said:
The fact that the people who were let go leaned toward one side of the political spectrum is part of the problem. A homogeneous staff has nothing to contribute to anything outside an echo-chamber. Even so, they were let go for economic reasons. That's the story we were given and considering how many people were let go and how many others were moved from other properties (mainly Gamefront) there is very little reason to believe it wasn't true. I'd wager Tito would cost more to keep than Morse, even if he weren't the EiC of the site-- though I obviously have no reason of knowing that.

So, why exactly is this move fishy? Should new hirings only be on one side of the political spectrum? Wasn't the fact that so many of the old contributors leaned on only one side a problem in and on itself? Hell, if they weren't all politically identical in the first place, would the firings raise any alarms to begin with?
 

KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime

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Stewie Plisken said:
NinjaDeathSlap said:
The fact that the people who were let go leaned toward one side of the political spectrum is part of the problem. A homogeneous staff has nothing to contribute to anything outside an echo-chamber. Even so, they were let go for economic reasons. That's the story we were given and considering how many people were let go and how many others were moved from other properties (mainly Gamefront) there is very little reason to believe it wasn't true. I'd wager Tito would cost more to keep than Morse, even if he weren't the EiC of the site-- though I obviously have no reason of knowing that.

So, why exactly is this move fishy? Should new hirings only be on one side of the political spectrum? Wasn't the fact that so many of the old contributors leaned on only one side a problem in and on itself? Hell, if they weren't all politically identical in the first place, would the firings raise any alarms to begin with?
Listen I have no problem with him being a libertarian, or even right-wing. My problem stems from his obvious trans-phobic tweets. Now I'm not saying don't hire him but seeing as how he's a political blogger with no real game or geek culture journalism chops... I'm leaning on the side of pessimism on what sort of things he's gonna post.

Edit: This coming from a trans libertarian centerist, mind you.