A puddle removed from upcoming Spiderman game, graphic warriors shriek in bereavement

HazardousCube

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https://kotaku.com/people-who-havent-played-spider-man-are-mad-the-develop-1828724400/amp

As mentioned in the title, a puddle was removed from the gameplay trailer from the Spiderman game from insomniac. The wonderful level headed people of the internet collectively lost their cool and mewl over the fact that an early version might not resemble the finished product. At the same time, Insomniac digs itself deeper and deeper trying to appease people who don't care for excuses.
 

meiam

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Wasn't the problem the significant graphic downgrade?

https://old.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/9binvp/spiderman_graphics_comparison/
 

HazardousCube

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Meiam said:
Wasn't the problem the significant graphic downgrade?

https://old.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/9binvp/spiderman_graphics_comparison/
Like I said, they complained that the finished product thats actually finished doesn't resemble the product when it had less content than a mighty no. 9 demo
 

Hawki

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Yoshi178 said:
good. i hope they shriek more.
But...why?

We've lived through Gamergate, are living through Comicsgate, could be living through Animegate in the near future, and that's confining outrage culture to just pop culture. We don't need, well...

Xsjadoblayde said:
#PuddleGate
This.

I mean, if you want to kick up a fuss, least make it something worth making a fuss about.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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HazardousCube said:
https://kotaku.com/people-who-havent-played-spider-man-are-mad-the-develop-1828724400/amp

As mentioned in the title, a puddle was removed from the gameplay trailer from the Spiderman game from insomniac. The wonderful level headed people of the internet collectively lost their cool and mewl over the fact that an early version might not resemble the finished product. At the same time, Insomniac digs itself deeper and deeper trying to appease people who don't care for excuses.
When you're using an early version of the game to MARKET THE GAME then you should be fully prepared for a backlash when the finished product does not resemble what was shown.

In this case the "graphical downgrade" seems to just be that the developer changed the time of day and position of the sun, which caused reflections to be changed, which caused the visual difference (according to Insomniac), so there may not actually be any kind of graphical downgrade.

Blame Aliens Colonial Marines and Watchdogs for setting a precedent in not believing promotional images. Because of those games any graphical change in any game now has to be treated with skepticism and a fear of what else may have been changed from the "vertical slice" so I'd say that the backlash is not entirely unjustified and also Kotaku are a bunch of twats.
 
Nov 9, 2015
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I hope this doesn't turn into something where we normalize bullshots and laugh at people who complain about them. That's not a good thing at all. They might have got it wrong this time, but I'd rather not shill for publishers just because I have a burning hatred for gamers.
 

Canadamus Prime

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Let me get this straight, there's a collective of morons freaking out over a puddle? Well that's a new level of petty.
 

Mcgeezaks

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It's obviously more than just reflective puddles that are missing but you know, keep doing the damage control for a multibillion-dollar company.





Developers are blaming it on ''different time of day'', then I'd really like to see a comparison where it's the same time of day.
 

stroopwafel

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It does look like a thousand minor details that all add up in some way. 2017 looks almost photo realistic while 2018 looks incredibly well animated. Like they tried to replicate the 2017 version. I noticed that the difference is almost always in deeper colors, light reflections, shadow casting and texture detail. All these small details that make it look realistic but costs a lot of memory. If they kept it that way in the final game frames would probably drop to single digits.

Still looks really good but promos almost never represent the final game. I personally won't have any nerd rage over it but yeah, I can see how some people can be disappointed. Those hype demos backfired so many times you wonder why these companies keep doing it. Espescially since the graphics are still very pretty even after the downgrade.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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Dirty Hipsters said:
Blame Aliens Colonial Marines and Watchdogs for setting a precedent in not believing promotional images. Because of those games any graphical change in any game now has to be treated with skepticism and a fear of what else may have been changed from the "vertical slice" so I'd say that the backlash is not entirely unjustified and also Kotaku are a bunch of twats.
I don said:
I hope this doesn't turn into something where we normalize bullshots and laugh at people who complain about them. That's not a good thing at all. They might have got it wrong this time, but I'd rather not shill for publishers just because I have a burning hatred for gamers.
BabyfartsMcgeezaks said:
It's obviously more than just reflective puddles that are missing but you know, keep doing the damage control for a multibillion-dollar company.

Developers are blaming it on ''different time of day'', then I'd really like to see a comparison where it's the same time of day.
stroopwafel said:
It does look like a thousand minor details that all add up in some way. 2017 looks almost photo realistic while 2018 looks incredibly well animated. Like they tried to replicate the 2017 version. I noticed that the difference is almost always in deeper colors, light reflections, shadow casting and texture detail. All these small details that make it look realistic but costs a lot of memory. If they kept it that way in the final game frames would probably drop to single digits.

Still looks really good but promos almost never represent the final game. I personally won't have any nerd rage over it but yeah, I can see how some people can be disappointed. Those hype demos backfired so many times you wonder why these companies keep doing it. Espescially since the graphics are still very pretty even after the downgrade.
Firstly, to Dirty Hipsters, Colonial Marines was a completely different thing.

Secondly, don't gamers understand just a little bit about how games are developed? When a dev gives a vertical slice of an open world game, things are going to change from reveal to release. In an open world game, even if that section you're seeing is done, not everything else is done. Since it's open world, that means not everything that will have to be rendered is being rendered in the reveal because not everything is done and thus it can't all be rendered. Plus probably all the game systems aren't online and running completely. So when all the systems are online and the world is complete, the look of the game is going to change from when that stuff wasn't up and running. Go back and watch one of the Watch Dogs E3 walkthroughs, the missions and gameplay exactly did mirror what is in the final game, that's what you should be looking at, the gameplay (the reason you'd want to play a game). When a dev reveals a game, not everything is working yet so they do cheat on that to show you what they're hoping the final product to look like. It's why linear games can even end up looking better like God of War because they are showing you that vertical slice and that vertical slice does indeed have everything done because it's not going to be part of a bigger world. Plus, it's not going to need a world of NPCs inhabiting it or a fully functional day/night cycle later on.

Basically, look at gameplay in the reveals, not the graphics.
 

Elijin

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I find it fascinating that in every other industry, doctored photos and videos is standard marketing practice. It's considered on the consumer to treat it with skepticism and expect to see the actual product cant measure up to idealized marketing promos. But videogames? In videogames its a scandal!
 
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Phoenixmgs said:
I would guess what happens is the devs create an E3 branch, plan what they want to showcase, create a tiny scene, add 10 billion dynamic lights, add some scripted bullshit, crank up the engine's post-process settings, and almost max the ram and vram on their dev console. Worse, they might even be using a PC.


[/spoiler]

Then when E3 is done, they merge it and turn down the post-process settings, and then they clean it all up so the game isn't a crashing and stuttering mess when you have to load that particular cell. Then, Crowbcat makes a video about it.

It seems like gamers are willing to defend these publishers if you make it about angry whiny gamers, or PC elitists, even though it was Kotaku who delivered it to you, and framed it in such away that is anger inducing, not because these gamers showed up to bother you.

I've always suspected that games journalism was the industry's dirt cheap advertising firm, and this article doesn't change my opinion.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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Puddles, reflections, lighting, shadow quality and ambient occlusion all look downgraded, so it's hardly a puddle only issue.

The game still looks fine though. And I'd love to play it regardless. I gotta get a PS4 soon.
 

Kyrian007

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Adam Jensen said:
Puddles, reflections, lighting, shadow quality and ambient occlusion all look downgraded, so it's hardly a puddle only issue.

The game still looks fine though. And I'd love to play it regardless. I gotta get a PS4 soon.
Gotta agree. I'm not someone who even really cares about graphics and its easy to see the clear quality downgrade there. I probably wasn't a buyer of this game anyway (not until someone makes a better Spiderman game than Spiderman 2) but I understand the issues people have. The solution to the problem is simple (and something developers and publishers would never do) DON'T RELEASE THE FIRST IMAGE IN THE FIRST PLACE. Simple. Don't put anything online until you are sure that is exactly how the finished product will look. But since that could never ever happen, the next best solution is to lean into the issue. Something like "yes we know there is a graphical downgrade. It is a result of multiplatform optimization, or X feature requiring heavier processing than anticipated." Tell gamers WHAT they traded graphical fidelity for and chances are good its a feature they will like better than shinier puddles anyway. And then you can remind them that after release they will have a team working on a higher resolution texture pack, and it will be free for people who can meet the increased system requirements. Problem solved.