A question for PC Gamers. Why all the hostility towards console gamers/gaming?

Parasondox

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Hello again Escapist

Now I must say I am finding out more about the gaming community each day and a lot of things has gotten me curious. I have seen several comments around how PC is the "Greatest gaming device" and how several PC gamers consider themselves to be "elites", or those on console calling them "elitist". Even with the recent launch of GTA V, a lot of PC gamers are pissed off, maybe rightly so, about the game not being on that platform. Some in the very small minority even say GTA V is "shit" just because it's not on PC. So with all of that collectively, what is there even any hostility towards Console gamers from PC gamers? It's like me hating Halo because I have a PS3 only.

Why is there this big separation and how in the heck did this all start and even the whole "Glorious PC gaming master race" attitude (I know the quote is from Zero Punctuation but I am talking about the attitude not the phrase).
 

Remaiki

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There isn't a big separation. Any elitist comments made by PC gamers are either jokes or stupid comments made by people you can safely ignore. Simple. No less, no more.

Though, that's not to say people saying that 'PC is the best platform' and the like are wrong automatically because of a silly minority. A single bad apple doesn't spoil an entire bunch provided you remove the bad apple when it comes to reading the apples' comments. (wait what)
 

LetalisK

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There isn't. At least, not anymore that I would expect from anything else. There will be some jackasses as there always will be with any group, and I've seen some myself, but for the most part, this "PC elitism" is an overblown preconception. Most people I've seen do it are purposely overdoing it for chuckles(like myself) or they are simply explaining why they prefer PC in relation to what they don't like about consoles. The closest I've seen to widespread PC elitism over consoles is from discussions about ports of games to PC from consoles and taking a step too far in complaining about features that are pointless or counter-productive on a PC.

Nor is it something special of or dependent on being a PC gamer. Have we forgotten the console wars? Anyone here a big Steelers fan? Arsenal?

PC gamers really aren't special.
 

sneakypenguin

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Is it elitism if its right? A solid 200 dollar gfx card is going to get more than double the pixels, 4-8-12 times the video ram, at twice the framerate with AA, SSAO, AF, dx11, tessalation, better shadows, lighting, massively more draw distance. Much less if you build a 1000 dollar beast computer. Mods, fixes,community balance patches, texture work etc. Outside of consoles exclusives PC is so far ahead of this gen its not even funny.

Its not that I hate consoles, or console gamers its just that i hate the backwards console experience, the so easily eclipsed tech, games designed like corridors so they can fit into 256 v ram, keeping the console gui in ports, ports that don't allow for basic PC features(dark souls, darksiders) and the graphic stagnation to where a 6-7 year old game still is held up as a graphical benchmark(crysis)

Imagine your ps3 but everything was still made for a ps2 would there not be some tension or frustration there, both with devs who are giving you a ps2 or 2.5 quality experience, and with the ps2 owners who say, "looks good to me, not everyone has the money for a ps3".
 

Bellvedere

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The hostility definitely goes both ways. It's really not all that different to console wars. PS3 vs 360 back around release was much more heated and a whole lot more segregated than PC vs console (and yeah, there were totally people that hated Halo because it was on Xbox and they had a PS). People just want to convince themselves that they've got the best platform.

As for specific reasons, I guess on PC you do get a whole lot more freedom on the platform in terms of fixes and modding. So there's the console player posts X problem about game and the PC player will say not an issue on PC because it was fixed by a particular mod or something. Can lead to people seeing PC users as thinking themselves superior.

There's also the fact that on PC you can go out buy the greatest and latest components today and obviously it will be more powerful than console systems especially those released several years ago. If you've got a super powerful system, especially if it is solely for gaming, you kind of want a lot of games to take advantage of that. Some PC gamers think that consoles are holding gaming back for that reason (which is a bit flawed since not every PC gamer is able to upgrade to the most powerful system possible every couple of years so really people still using older PCs are just as "guilty"). Some console players see complaints that the quality could be better for PC and attribute the "holding back" view to the person that made the comment.

Also, it's much better now, but for a while it was the norm that console games were ported to PC which led to a whole bunch of optimisation issues and sloppy control schemes (before that PC games were ported to consoles). I don't know if the problem here came from hostility directed towards console players as a result since the popularity of consoles was the reason that consoles became the priority or if it was because console players didn't realise that it the quality was far reduced on PC/controls and UI where impractical for PC platform using mouse and keyboard and interpreted the complaints as "console players must be stupid to think this is any good". Or it could have been a bit of both.

Not totally up on the PC vs Rockstar drama since I haven't really played any Rockstar games. I think it has something to do with the quality of their ports.
 

WeepingAngels

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sneakypenguin said:
Is it elitism if its right? A solid 200 dollar gfx card is going to get more than double the pixels, 4-8-12 times the video ram, at twice the framerate with AA, SSAO, AF, dx11, tessalation, better shadows, lighting, massively more draw distance. Much less if you build a 1000 dollar beast computer. Mods, fixes,community balance patches, texture work etc. Outside of consoles exclusives PC is so far ahead of this gen its not even funny.

Its not that I hate consoles, or console gamers its just that i hate the backwards console experience, the so easily eclipsed tech, games designed like corridors so they can fit into 256 v ram, keeping the console gui in ports, ports that don't allow for basic PC features(dark souls, darksiders) and the graphic stagnation to where a 6-7 year old game still is held up as a graphical benchmark(crysis)

Imagine your ps3 but everything was still made for a ps2 would there not be some tension or frustration there, both with devs who are giving you a ps2 or 2.5 quality experience, and with the ps2 owners who say, "looks good to me, not everyone has the money for a ps3".
Using your PS2/PS3 example, it really is true that not everyone (or even most people) have the money and/or desire to buy or build a high end PC. Now if most games were designed to take advantage of those $300+ video cards, chances are console gamers would be left out in the cold. Maybe consoles could run the low settings version but that would be like the Wii running a low end version of Final Fantasy XIII.


So, you know, it goes both ways but the market leans in favor of the cheaper option...obviously.
 

Joccaren

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ParsonOSX said:
Hello again Escapist

Now I must say I am finding out more about the gaming community each day and a lot of things has gotten me curious. I have seen several comments around how PC is the "Greatest gaming device" and how several PC gamers consider themselves to be "elites", or those on console calling them "elitist".
Let me first clarify that what you've said here has nothing to do with

So with all of that collectively, what is there even any hostility towards Console gamers from PC gamers? It's like me hating Halo because I have a PS3 only.

Why is there this big separation and how in the heck did this all start and even the whole "Glorious PC gaming master race" attitude (I know the quote is from Zero Punctuation but I am talking about the attitude not the phrase).
This.
Only
Even with the recent launch of GTA V, a lot of PC gamers are pissed off, maybe rightly so, about the game not being on that platform. Some in the very small minority even say GTA V is "shit" just because it's not on PC.
This does, and even then only to an extent.

Saying PC is the greatest gaming device is not hating on consoles. It is stating a fact, or what someone believes to be a fact. The term 'greatest gaming device' seems to disregard cost, hence the PCs ability to boot up instantly thanks to SSDs, play far more games than any console in history, with better graphics, performance and peripheral options - including any control scheme you want - modding, fan patches, digital distribution that often works, faster loading times - the PC is better and running games, and has the capability to do pretty much everything a console can. Hence a lot of people consider it the greatest gaming device. Its not that they hate consoles and those who use them, they just don't see a need for them personally to own a console, as the PC can do everything it will do better.

The Glorious PC Gaming Master race is, in and of itself, a joke. PC gamers aren't idiots. We know it came from Zero Punctuation, and it was made to mock PC gamers. When PC gamers use that phrase, it's self-satire. We're seriously just making fun of ourselves for a laugh. Some people do consider themselves better for playing on the PC, but that's the same as all the console kids who claim their top shit for playing on a console. Idiots exist on both sides, the majority are at least somewhat reasonable. Additionally, what does console players insulting PC players have to do with PC players hating consoles? Isn't that the opposite?

Being pissed off at GTA V for not being on PC is perfectly reasonable. How do you think the console community would have reacted if it were a PC exclusive? Poorly. There would probably have been riots in the streets, as they feel entitled to GTA V as they love the game, but don't want to have to buy a decent PC to play it. Yet when we PC players have this problem, where we love a game but don't want to buy a console and TV to play it, we're told to just deal with it and called elitists. That isn't us hating consoles, that's console gamers hating us for perceived slights that more often than not only exist in their head.
As you said, its the minority that say "GTA V is shit because its not on the PC", and even then I'd offer that at least half of them aren't saying that, but are saying "The PC version of GTA V would be better than the console version due to better controls and better graphics and performance", which is something very different.

There isn't some massive conspiracy in PC gaming to hate console gamers and consoles. A lot of PC gamers are resentful that consoles get a lot of exclusives, and that development is tailored to console gamer's trade in needs rather than the PCs long term playability needs, but they don't necessarily hate consoles. That is the minority, and its not even really that vocal of one. You might find one or two people like that here, whilst I've spoken with at least a dozen who hate PC gamers for being elitist jerks who hate consoles.
A lot of this is fantasy. It doesn't really exist like that. People find themselves justified in hating the other party based on a minority in that party, and that minority often grows larger thanks to the minority that justifies hating on the whole sect just because of the minority. This happens on both sides. The easiest way to deal with it is, quite honestly, to just get over it and realise maybe not everyone hates you, for both sides.
 

T_ConX

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Why is PC the mustard race?

Because consoles need to KETCHUP!

The only people who say that PC gamers have anger issues toward console gamers are console gamers. Most PC Gamers can easily afford a console or two if they really want one. I know I do.

Is this about GTAV? Because if it is, I'll tell you straight...

I wanted it on PC. I really, truly did.

It's not a matter of 'I won't be able to play it if it's not on PC'. No, it's 'I could easily play it on my EIGHT YEAR OLD XBOX 360, but I'd rather play it on my custom built beast of a desktop.'

Why?

 

Reise

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Remember, PC gamers have to put up with a lot of crap.

For one, PC gamers are blamed for the majority of piracy (even though some data suggests that it's far more prevalent for consoles). So when developers use piracy as an excuse for X, they flat out blame PC gamers, ie when it was said that GoW2 would not be brought to PC because GoW1 was 'pirated too much'.

PC gamers get shitty ports. It's a fact. Sometimes, developers can make really good ports. Many, if not most, of the times, they do not. Have you ever played a game with iffy controls? Did it irritate you? Now imagine that building up over dozens or hundreds of games. All because developers didn't think to take advantage of the fact that PC players have a mouse and keyboard and not a controller. Example? Skyrim's damn lists and not a single freaking hot key. FONV had hotkeys, but nope, not Skyrim.

PC gamers do not like the growing control that's starting as a direct result of console gaming. Console gamers can buy and trade used copies of games. That makes publishers mad. Publishers like money and then start creating draconian control measures. PC gamers start to suffer as a byproduct as this: the Steams and Origins (especially Origin which was malware when it launched and probably still is). Not only that, key PC features are being gutted, for example, such as the complete disappearance of LAN to 'encourage' the use of 'features' such as GFWL or Battle.net.

It's very frustrating being a PC gamer nowadays. As far as I'm aware, Crysis is still the most graphically advanced game on the market because it's the only one that bothered to push on the PC, then the sequels were picked up with consoles in mind and it was a step back in terms of graphics because it had to perform on much lower quality equipment.

And PC gamers know that if there just so happens to have a PC-only or PC-focused game that comes out, and it does well, it will be picked up by a publisher which will then have the developers create any sequels with the consoles in mind, as with the aforementioned Crysis. Another example would be Dragon Age: Origins--designed for the PC with the PC in mind, after EA acquired BioWare, its launch was delayed six months for the purposes (and despite what the devs and EA said) of porting it over to the consoles--with a crappy ad campaign. And the game ended up running horribly unoptimized for the consoles anyway.

Frankly, it's not the consoles or the console gamers that the PC gamers despise. It's what the publishers and some developers THINK are console gamers.
 

Charli

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I heard from my ma' that controllers eat people.

And that the keyboard and mouse DIED for our sins.


(I dunno man I like both for different things, I find console gamers tend to be bitter that they can't afford what they commonly refer to as a couple of thousand bajillion dollars to put down on a PC (Again PC gaming has some of the cheapest, budget ass ghetto games around, you don't need much to enjoy PC gaming) and have a hissyfit right back, neither side is being rational when they put the other down)
 

Yopaz

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sneakypenguin said:
Is it elitism if its right? A solid 200 dollar gfx card is going to get more than double the pixels, 4-8-12 times the video ram, at twice the framerate with AA, SSAO, AF, dx11, tessalation, better shadows, lighting, massively more draw distance. Much less if you build a 1000 dollar beast computer. Mods, fixes,community balance patches, texture work etc. Outside of consoles exclusives PC is so far ahead of this gen its not even funny.
It's elitism if you desperately want to point it out every time you've got half a chance (not saying you do). Still, it is true. Consoles are simply playing catch up even with the upcoming generation. They always will be.

OT: I actually enjoy both PC and consoles so I don't really hate consoles. If someone claims that consoles are more powerful I will argue against that, because that's bullshit. I did see someone say that the PS3 CPU was more powerful than any PC CPU and that it would probably always be. This was 2 years ago... it was so stupid that I let it go.

Now where PC gamers get annoyed it's often because games are made for consoles and then PC gets a lazy port. Resident Evil 4 didn't support the use of mouse while aiming which is the worst I can think of right of the bat.
 

BloatedGuppy

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I have both a PC and a console. Thus, I hate myself.

Really though, it's just a variety of little things, most of which have already been discussed. Stupid exclusives, the "consolization" of games leading to shit ports (especially egregious when it was a series with roots on the PC), having a PC with ten times the power of the standard console but having to deal with textures from 2002. That kind of thing.

If anything ever ground my gears, it's the fact I've been PC gaming for 30 years, and for 28 of them I've had to listen to tales of how the next wave of consoles would "kill" the PC. Now that digital distribution has taken off and consoles are starting to labor to find a niche in a world gone increasingly mobile, I have to admit I find the reversal of fortunes kind of hilarious. But that's as far as it goes, I swear!
 

MHR

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First of all, I don't blame Rockstar for delaying GTA V PC release until a bit later. This game would've been pirated to hell and at the very least this will get more people to buy the console release rather than pirate on PC for free.

But for the PC in general, PC gamers act superior because the PC is superior. You can't expect such a crowd to go around acting humble all the time, especially when there are so many console kiddies that would insist consoles are "where it's at."
 

KazeAizen

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sneakypenguin said:
Is it elitism if its right? A solid 200 dollar gfx card is going to get more than double the pixels, 4-8-12 times the video ram, at twice the framerate with AA, SSAO, AF, dx11, tessalation, better shadows, lighting, massively more draw distance. Much less if you build a 1000 dollar beast computer. Mods, fixes,community balance patches, texture work etc. Outside of consoles exclusives PC is so far ahead of this gen its not even funny.

Its not that I hate consoles, or console gamers its just that i hate the backwards console experience, the so easily eclipsed tech, games designed like corridors so they can fit into 256 v ram, keeping the console gui in ports, ports that don't allow for basic PC features(dark souls, darksiders) and the graphic stagnation to where a 6-7 year old game still is held up as a graphical benchmark(crysis)

Imagine your ps3 but everything was still made for a ps2 would there not be some tension or frustration there, both with devs who are giving you a ps2 or 2.5 quality experience, and with the ps2 owners who say, "looks good to me, not everyone has the money for a ps3".
In all honesty I really highly doubt that, especially with the PS4 and Xbones on the way (not getting the latter, getting the former because Kingdom Hearts). I don't think there is as much a difference anymore in the tech specs between PCs and consoles. Yes PCs had the best graphic systems in the world for decades but now thanks Microsoft and Sony that bridge has been narrowed considerably.

To be honest I am not a tech head but again what should any of that matter at this point in the game? I mean really? There is almost no point anymore in trying to develop better graphics. What we really and truly need are just down home fun games. You know fun right? Its that thing Nintendo never forgot. Ok ok that was out of line. Personally it just bugs me to no end when people lord tech specs over others thinking that is the end all be all when time and again it has proven to be false. Recent examples: The PS2 and Wii were not the most powerful systems of their generations but each thoroughly destroyed the competition is we are simply talking sales numbers. Consoles are not a backward experience. As for the graphical benchmarks swipe that's a bit out of line. Those games will always be held up because they are just that. Benchmarks of where we have been and it is possible to make a game that long ago and still have it age well. That's what they have done. They have stood the test of time graphically and gameplay wise that they still are benchmarks. I've reached the point where graphics are a non issue for me. I wish others would join me quite frankly. If the game has a GOOD AESTHETIC and is fun to play on its own then I am good.

E.G. Bayonetta sucked my whole summer dry.
 

teebeeohh

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it just people being silly, most times. there are of course idiots who actually believe they are better because they play pc games.
and I think a lot of hostility is from having when the 360 and ps3 were released and we had to deal with a lot of hate from the console crowd and thus deployed counter hate, because that always works out so well.

And thanks for beta testing gtav and absorbing all the hype
 

BloatedGuppy

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KazeAizen said:
In all honesty I really highly doubt that, especially with the PS4 and Xbones on the way (not getting the latter, getting the former because Kingdom Hearts). I don't think there is as much a difference anymore in the tech specs between PCs and consoles. Yes PCs had the best graphic systems in the world for decades but now thanks Microsoft and Sony that bridge has been narrowed considerably.
You can doubt it all you want, it's completely true. Brand new consoles are usually comparable to last year's PCs, and the gap swiftly widens from there, as the PC is in a constant state of evolution whereas the console stays relatively static for years.

And frankly, as someone with limited disposable income, I appreciate consoles keeping the overhead down on PC gaming by...well...sucking. Thanks to this absurdly long console generation even seriously aged hardware is still performing famously well.
 

Arina Love

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sneakypenguin said:
Imagine your ps3 but everything was still made for a ps2 would there not be some tension or frustration there, both with devs who are giving you a ps2 or 2.5 quality experience, and with the ps2 owners who say, "looks good to me, not everyone has the money for a ps3".
i would be totally ok with it, because graphics =/= good game. As long as story and gameplay solid i don't care how game looks, PS2 era is totally fine. i'm now playing and enjoying game that looks like this


it's close to PS2.5 than PS3. I'm enjoying every second of this game.

For me system superiority is not hardware it's games. PS3 has, by far, most games i enjoy playing, meaning for me PS3 is superior platform for games.
 

AuronFtw

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From my perspective it's not that console gamers do anything wrong, it's that, in their ignorance, they support everything bad that remains in this industry. Over-the-top flashy cutscenes instead of deep content and story elements, publishers having 100% control over every aspect of every game and milking them with annual passes and other such nonsense (and console gamers being "used to it" because of nonsense like XBL subscription), the console manufacturer completely fucking over their consumers at every turn and having complete control over the console and every program that touches it.

Xbone is a good example of the problem, really; console manufacturers can do ANYTHING to your console that they want, and you (as a console owner) are fucked in the ass. You have no recourse, they'll beat you in court, and they won't give you a refund for their product. While the worst aspects of the Xbone were eventually shouted down (by a rightfully indignant crowd), the console gamers don't even realize how much freedom they've already given up. Have you guys even looked at the Xbox Live store? Let me put it in perspective; you're paying money to access a service to buy games from. This is already like paying money to access Steam on PC, which obviously nobody does. But on top of this, on top of paying money to be able to pay money to buy more games, you get cockslapped with ads for movies, tv shows, songs, and other games.

What the fuck? Really? Ads on top of all that? Microsoft isn't making enough money from the game sales, from the subscription to the service, they have to reach out to corporations and sell ad space too? That's how little they care about their customers. Their customers aren't people to them; they're walking wallets. And because they have complete control over their console, they can *treat* anyone stupid enough to buy their console like walking wallets, and the wallets customers can't do a fucking thing about it.

These companies blatantly lie, gen after gen, making up bullshit to scam their customers out of more and more money. They jump on a bandwagon every few years to blame some new "evil" for their monetary greed; pirates, used games and gamestop specifically at the expense of their customers.

The problem boils down to consoles promoting everything that is wrong with the Gaming Industry; lack of competition. You buy into a single company's system, and you are at that company's whim. Everything they decide, you are required to go along with. Everything they want to charge you for, you are required to pay it. Don't want to? Go fuck yourself, your online services will just stop working. Your games won't get updates. Want to mod your system to install third party programs, or even emulate older ones? Go fuck yourself, your warranty is null and void, and when your system RROD's it becomes a brick because nobody will fix it.

PCs negate these problems by promoting competition. Steam sales, gog sales, greemangaming sales, amazon sales are all competing with each other. Even entire services are competing; Steam is a DRM at its core, but it's so convenient and user-friendly that most users (by far) don't even think of it as one anymore. But guess what? If Steam was as bad as Xbox Live, people wouldn't use it. They'd go somewhere else. Because that's how a free market works. That's how consumers "win."

It's not possible to think of Microsoft's Xbox Live "service" as anything other than customer-fucking DRM, because that's what it constantly reminds you of every time you start it up and get ads shoved down your throat. When you get slow game updates, no game modding whatsoever, and limited access to other "services," you begin to wonder why you're paying for it to begin with. You wonder why you're supporting the unfeasible market that attempts to defeat itself with bad decisions at every turn, and when they start suffering financially, they pass the blame onto their consumers and over-charge them to make up the difference.

It's not that consoles themselves are "bad ideas" or that console gamers are "evil," it's just that, in their ignorance/lack of effort, they're propping up one of the last bastions of the awful publisher-centric publisher-dominated unfeasible unsustainable market instead of simply letting it die.

When that awful market dies, everyone will win; the unsustainable AAA market of the past will either evolve to match the times, or become a relic of a bygone age. But that will only happen by challenging their bullshit. And the best way to challenge their bullshit is by not buying into it and not supporting it. Considering that PCs are superior gaming consoles anyway (objectively, the list of pros and cons is very one-sided in favor of pros) it doesn't make sense to support the failing console market that takes out its failures on any consumers still silly enough to be supporting them.