A Resident Evil thr-NO WAIT COME BACK! I have questions!

surg3n

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I can't agree with people saying RE4 is somehow less of a survival horror game.

The atmosphere in RE games is what's important, the dimly lit corridors of RE1 all the way up to the dimly lit environments in RE6. But, RE4 had an amazing atmosphere, amazing to the point that I'd consider it the best conceived environment in any RE game. Spanish farmer folk gone all evil, with that farm setting, rotting stuff, putrid smells, dusty old buildings. The atmosphere in RE4 is just genius - because it's like real farms. Farmers are sometimes sick fuckers who will think nothing of leaving rotting food lying around, or even just letting the pigs consume any dead pigs, that sort of thing happens. I was at a farm once where the last seasons strawberries were still sitting out, these things were practically climbing out the tubs on their own. So for me RE4 has the most believable setting, because every farm has something unpleasant hidden in the corner, RE4 shows us that.

It might have really amped up the action, but at it's heart RE4 is still a survival horror, it's just that it becomes more aparant later into the game - on the surface, the first couple hours gameplay don't really give that away. I'd say that RE5 is the one that went too far away from the RE formula, that was just tedious that game.
 

Username Redacted

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theswordsmn said:
-snip- Classic fans: would you be okay with what Capcom is doing now, if you got access to classic styles of games in small bites?
1) Paragraphs and indentation are your friends.

2) I enjoyed the Resident Evil games that I played (1, 3 and 4) and the one that I watched someone else play (2). I saw enough of 5 to know better than to give that game the time of day.

3) In response to your suggestion it seems interesting but it doesn't matter to me. After seeing RE5 and RE6 I've completely checked out on the series AND after a staggeringly large number of incredibly stupid decisions that Capcom have made recently with most of their other properties I've pretty much checked out on them as a company. I don't foresee ever buying one of their games again AND if they continue along their current path I wouldn't be surprised if they start having serious financial issues sometime in the near future.
 

snekadid

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Zhukov said:
Casual Shinji said:
And an RE game doesn't need to have fixed camera and the inability to manually aim in order to create an atmospheric, slow and methodical survival game. *points to Resident Evil 4*
But was RE4 really that?

Hell, I have trouble taking 1-3 seriously as survival, horror or any combination of the two. But RE4 was a corny, gleeful, spaniard-blasting romp through the daisy patch.

That's not to say it wasn't fun. It was. But I don't see what separates it from the newer games in terms of tone.
I liked 1-3, they were fun tough and completely confusing.
While I liked the gameplay elements for RE4, its not a RE game and thus terrible because they put RE on the cover but took out all the zombies in favor of some alien mutant garbage.

Atleast 5 had wesker and gave us one of my favorite ZP reviews.
 

anthony87

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I've seen a few people lament how the creepiness/tension/what have you isn't the same any more but really, how could it be the same? I mean, look at Resi 1-3, the first two in particular. You're playing as a character who has no idea what the hell is going on, is suddenly confronted with zombies and monsters and mutants and is basically thrust into a situation that they know nothing about.

Even in 4, even though Leon had the experience of the events of Resi 2 behind him along with badass special agent training, there was still a sense of tension for the most part because this was a new experience for both the player and character, specifically Las Plagas. Then Resi 5 comes along. At this stage Chris has been through the events of Resi 1 and Code Veronica and among other things helped to found a worldwide anti bio-terrorism organisation, he's also been made aware of Las Plagas at some point between Resi 4 and 5.

So by the time of Resi 6 we've got:
Leon. Badass secret service agent who has survived both the the T-Virus and Las Plagas.
Chris. Survivor of two T-Virus outbreaks and a Las Plagas/Uroboros outbreak, founder of an anti B.O.W army and part time rock puncher.
Jake. Tough as nails merc and general super-human due to being Wesker's son.

Considering the protagonists, how was anyone expecting Resi 6 to have anywhere near the same kind of tension as previous entries?

.....I'll admit, I doubt what I've just said has much to do with the actual OP but I just couldn't read it. Paragraphs are your friend dude.
 

Tohuvabohu

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surg3n said:
I don't agree. It's not just atmosphere that makes traditional 'survival horror', gameplay mechanics have to play a strong part in it. What makes RE4 different in this regard is that Leon plays more like a superhuman 1-man army, and when your character feels this way - The 'survival horror' feeling from the days of yore is thrown out the window.

I say this because I got the RE6 Archives and downloaded Resident Evils CV to 5.

After playing 4 for a few hours, I went back to playing Code Veronica after many years (Used to play it a lot on Dreamcast.) And, holy shit I'm actually vulnerable. There's a huge lack of healing items. There's too many zombies everywhere for me to possibly fight, I have to run away.

^Can you really say this about Resident Evil 4? Because a grand overwhelming majority of the game boils down to killing absolutely everything in sight. You can't even leave several areas until you massacred every single enemy within it.

Yes, RE4 had an inherently creepy atmosphere and a few enemies were - dare I say - terrifying to fight. This alone does not make the game a Survival Horror.

It might have really amped up the action, but at it's heart RE4 is still a survival horror, it's just that it becomes more aparant later into the game - on the surface, the first couple hours gameplay don't really give that away. I'd say that RE5 is the one that went too far away from the RE formula, that was just tedious that game.
That's strange, because I think it's the complete opposite. The beginning of the game is when you are most vulnerable and most uncertain. And later in the game is when you're overflowing with guns, ammo, grenades, healing items, and are well-versed in killing Ganados. 'Tedious' is exactly how'd describe the 3rd act in RE4, which the only redeeming feature of was los regeneradores.

For as much criticism as RE5 gets. I think it goes through the same paces and problems that RE4 does.

Both games have a very strong beginning.
The mystery, intrigue, and danger deepens towards the middle.
Then both games hit a brick wall towards the end and tediously decends into shooty/explody mediocrity.

OT: What you're lamenting is the loss of what I think of as ancient game design. I think Resident Evils 1-3 HAD to look and control that way because of the limitations at the time. It just so happens that it blended together to create something that felt different, and truly was scary.

To be honest, I think Resident Evil needed the innovations that RE4 brought.

How to appease RE fans? Well they actually did like all of these limitations and believe the fixed cameras + stiff controls were part of the RE experience. It would really hurt no one if Capcom decided to make a modern yet 'classic' style bite-sized Resident Evil game, I just don't see how it's possible for them to pull that off unless they introduce new characters.
 

Praetox

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Honestly, I enjoy both the old games and the new games. Yes, they play and feel very differently, but I find them equally fun. Even though the story is quite whacky and silly, I love it more than any other part of the game, and that's what keeps me coming back and enjoying it. I've been playing RE6 since launch day, and I'm having a blast with it.
 

Casual Shinji

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Zhukov said:
Casual Shinji said:
And an RE game doesn't need to have fixed camera and the inability to manually aim in order to create an atmospheric, slow and methodical survival game. *points to Resident Evil 4*
But was RE4 really that?

Hell, I have trouble taking 1-3 seriously as survival, horror or any combination of the two. But RE4 was a corny, gleeful, spaniard-blasting romp through the daisy patch.

That's not to say it wasn't fun. It was. But I don't see what separates it from the newer games in terms of tone.
Well, pacing for one thing - RE4 knew when to ramp it up and to dial it down. It knew when to unleash a horde of insane, bloodthirsty villagers at you, and then allow you some quiet time to gather some ammo and look at the cows. It was great at foreshadowing, like the pit where you fight el Gigante; The first time you get there nothing happens, but you can hear it breathing behind the gates, (at the time) not knowing what the hell it is.

In the sewer section where the bugs are you'll suddenly hear a hatch break open and something storming toward you, but nothing's there. All the while knowing you are about to face a new and deadly enemy. Or the section with Salazar's "right hand", where you can see it observing the tunnel you just walked through, lurking in the shadows. RE4 is filled with these little moments that aren't just 'here's an enemy, shoot it', but are meant to make you nervous about what's to come. That's where you could say the "horror" comes into play.

As for why it is creepy, that all depends from person to person, I guess. It's never flat-out scary, but it had a thick and heavy atmosphere thanks to the brilliant environments and sound design, that caused you to feel anxiety about what the hell they were gonna sick at you this time. The ramping up of the chainsaw motor when its wielder got too close, or the weezing of the Regenerators; All these sounds where designed to cause you discomfort as the enemy is closing in on you.
 

CountryMike

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Kickstarter? Shinji Mikami (creator of Resident Evil 1) is way ahead of you guys since he's already working on an old school survival horror game ala Resident Evil 1 (without Kickstarter). It's called project "Zwei" and will be published by Bethesda
 

Techno Squidgy

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I really enjoyed Resident Evil 4. Didn't enjoy 5 though. I tried to play through 1 and 2 but I couldn't. Too damn scary. I admit I'm a coward, but god damn...

I keep going back to 1 & 2 though, it's really strange. I refuse to give up on them completely.
 

Pearwood

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Since when did bad graphics, outdated design choices and simplistic level design stop being criticisms?
 

Casual Shinji

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CountryMike said:
Kickstarter? Shinji Mikami (creator of Resident Evil 1) is way ahead of you guys since he's already working on an old school survival horror game ala Resident Evil 1 (without Kickstarter). It's called project "Zwei" and will be published by Bethesda
Goddamn, that is music to my ears.

Shinji Mikami is a friggin genius!
 

Tohuvabohu

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CountryMike said:
Kickstarter? Shinji Mikami (creator of Resident Evil 1) is way ahead of you guys since he's already working on an old school survival horror game ala Resident Evil 1 (without Kickstarter). It's called project "Zwei" and will be published by Bethesda
He also said it will be the last game he directs, no? I hope not, I love that man and his work (God Hand 2 for the love of all things holy!!!)

From his descriptions, this project 'Zwei' will be a no-bullshit survival horror experience. It sounds like he's confident that he can give us all a real survival horror experience all over again. I'm really looking forward to hearing more about this, but there hasn't been much said about it yet.
 

crazyrabbits

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Anthraxus said:
Yea, nobody's saying RE4 is COMPLETE run-n-gun like CoD or some crap, but it's a far cry from being survival horror and the feel & atmosphere of RE 1&2, which made ppl love the series in the first place.
I felt (and still feel) that 4 was just as frightening as the "Raccoon trilogy". The way the game perfectly paces the tension up to when you arrive in the town, freaking out when the villagers begin surrounding you, the chainsaw revving up, the encounter with the monster in the lake...it may not have had the "shock" value of the RE encounters (which had enemies come out from behind doors and windows), but it was arguably just as effective, if not moreso, than those installments...just a little faster and tighter, and ratcheting up the enemies just a bit more.

From what I've seen of 6, they still have that "old-school" feel in Leon's campaign. The slow, shambling zombies in his missions look downright ineffective and lame compared to the J'avo, though.
 

Frankster

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Fixed camera angles is something i feel will put off most "modern" gamers, i just doubt an old skol resident evil would be welcomed with open arms nowadays :/ Resi evil series went actiony because thats where the market was.
 

Rad Party God

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I definitely want the old style, but with REmake graphics. I know, not gonna happen in this day and age, but it doesn't have to be with pre-rendered backgrounds, it could be 100% in-game rendered graphics with a few wierd camera angles and whatnot, like Eternal Darkness or Silent Hill when you're inside small rooms.
 

Kopikatsu

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crazyrabbits said:
Anthraxus said:
Yea, nobody's saying RE4 is COMPLETE run-n-gun like CoD or some crap, but it's a far cry from being survival horror and the feel & atmosphere of RE 1&2, which made ppl love the series in the first place.
I felt (and still feel) that 4 was just as frightening as the "Raccoon trilogy". The way the game perfectly paces the tension up to when you arrive in the town, freaking out when the villagers begin surrounding you, the chainsaw revving up, the encounter with the monster in the lake...it may not have had the "shock" value of the RE encounters (which had enemies come out from behind doors and windows), but it was arguably just as effective, if not moreso, than those installments...just a little faster and tighter, and ratcheting up the enemies just a bit more.

From what I've seen of 6, they still have that "old-school" feel in Leon's campaign. The slow, shambling zombies in his missions look downright ineffective and lame compared to the J'avo, though.
J'avo are a last faster and sections with them are more frantic than with the zombies (FUCKING SNIPERS), but the zombies are a heck of a lot stronger (Zombie attacks do one block of health minimum, preventing you from regenerating that block back- often more. Most J'avo do very low damage in comparison, letting you heal away all of the damage they caused) and take more to put down.

The most 'old school' campaign is actually Ada's. No partner, ammo is even tighter for her than other characters because her weapons like to use a lot of ammo that you get in small quantities (For example, the Ammo Box 50 has 50 round clip of handgun ammo...which come in packs of 10. Trying to save up for that gun will mean a ton of inventory space devoted to an honestly subpar weapon), the old school RE camera kicks in at times for her, most of the enemies have to be avoided because fighting them head on is suicide, she gets a ton of puzzles that involve extremely arbitrarily locked doors and some measure of backtracking. Among other things.
 

Tuesday Night Fever

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Casual Shinji said:
Well, an industry tends to move forward. So to stay stuck in the past just for nostalgia sake seems like a bad idea.

Fans will always cry out for the old ways, but it's up to talented people, which are sometimes developers, to show them new and exciting ways of entertainment.

And an RE game doesn't need to have fixed camera and the inability to manually aim in order to create an atmospheric, slow and methodical survival game. *points to Resident Evil 4*
While I can respect your point of view here, I don't think I really agree with it.

It's very easy to brand all the people who prefer an older style of something as being blinded by nostalgia... but frankly, it's not always true. With regard to the Resident Evil series, I find myself in the group of people who prefer the playstyle of the older games. I don't think it's nostalgia for a couple reasons. For one, I joined the fanbase late. I didn't play any of the original games when they were new, I played them all around the same time that RE4 was released on the GameCube. I actually do like RE4 and RE5... I just prefer the old games. While the new ones might be moving forward in how they are designed, I feel pretty strongly that they've actually regressed massively when it comes to being Survival/Horror titles.

Just because a developer shows "new and exciting" ways of entertainment doesn't necessarily mean they're better ways of entertainment. It's entirely subjective.

Also, I wouldn't personally consider RE4 to be a 'slow and methodical survival game.' It's significantly faster paced than any of the main series titles preceding it. While it occasionally has fairly creepy atmosphere, the game as a whole is skewed very heavily toward action compared to the others, and it shows. Especially once you end up with a Striker automatic 12-gauge shotgun with a 100-shell drum.
 

Casual Shinji

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Tuesday Night Fever said:
Casual Shinji said:
Well, an industry tends to move forward. So to stay stuck in the past just for nostalgia sake seems like a bad idea.

Fans will always cry out for the old ways, but it's up to talented people, which are sometimes developers, to show them new and exciting ways of entertainment.

And an RE game doesn't need to have fixed camera and the inability to manually aim in order to create an atmospheric, slow and methodical survival game. *points to Resident Evil 4*
While I can respect your point of view here, I don't think I really agree with it.

It's very easy to brand all the people who prefer an older style of something as being blinded by nostalgia... but frankly, it's not always true. With regard to the Resident Evil series, I find myself in the group of people who prefer the playstyle of the older games. I don't think it's nostalgia for a couple reasons. For one, I joined the fanbase late. I didn't play any of the original games when they were new, I played them all around the same time that RE4 was released on the GameCube. I actually do like RE4 and RE5... I just prefer the old games. While the new ones might be moving forward in how they are designed, I feel pretty strongly that they've actually regressed massively when it comes to being Survival/Horror titles.

Just because a developer shows "new and exciting" ways of entertainment doesn't necessarily mean they're better ways of entertainment. It's entirely subjective.

Also, I wouldn't personally consider RE4 to be a 'slow and methodical survival game.' It's significantly faster paced than any of the main series titles preceding it. While it occasionally has fairly creepy atmosphere, the game as a whole is skewed very heavily toward action compared to the others, and it shows. Especially once you end up with a Striker automatic 12-gauge shotgun with a 100-shell drum.
Before RE4 came out the franchise had become dead in its tracks. Capcom had exhausted the prerendered background and fixed camera type gameplay. The only natural course was to evolve the gameplay, and that's what they did. Courtesy of Shinji Mikami.

And really, RE4 isn't that different from the previous games apart from the over-the-shoulder view, which adds greater control and accuracy, and so the need for faster enemies. The previous games had a boatload of weapons, too; Pistols, shotguns, grenade launchers, magnums, machine guns. The only difference was that you never had enough room to carry them all at the same time. And the puzzles didn't amount to anything more but 'find stone/key/electrical wire to open door', just like in RE4. Except again, you didn't have enough room to hold on to it indefinately, so you were always futzing around with the item boxes.

When I say 'slow and methodical' I mean it takes it time to let the setting and its events sink in. Yes, it's action-y, but it's not an unending barage of explosions - It knows when to be quiet and let the mood set in.
 

Tuesday Night Fever

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Casual Shinji said:
Before RE4 came out the franchise had become dead in its tracks. Capcom had exhausted the prerendered background and fixed camera type gameplay. The only natural course was to evolve the gameplay, and that's what they did. Courtesy of Shinji Mikami.

And really, RE4 isn't that different from the previous games apart from the over-the-shoulder view, which adds greater control and accuracy, and so the need for faster enemies. The previous games had a boatload of weapons, too; Pistols, shotguns, grenade launchers, magnums, machine guns. The only difference was that you never had enough room to carry them all at the same time. And the puzzles didn't amount to anything more but 'find stone/key/electrical wire to open door', just like in RE4. Except again, you didn't have enough room to hold on to it indefinately, so you were always futzing around with the item boxes.

When I say 'slow and methodical' I mean it takes it time to let the setting and its events sink in. Yes, it's action-y, but it's not an unending barage of explosions - It knows when to be quiet and let the mood set in.
It only became "dead in its tracks" because RE4 came along, not because they couldn't have continued. I won't deny that RE4 made many great leaps in terms of design, but I'm completely against the idea that the old method was "dead."

RE4 actually is quite a bit different from the previous games. While the previous games may have had many weapons, it was to a much different scale. There were generally fewer weapons, far less abundant ammunition, and the upgrade system in RE4 lead to weaponry venturing into the territory of absurdity (Like the 100-round drum Striker, or the 250-round capacity TMP machine pistol). While the older Resident Evil titles promoted ammo conservation (especially at higher difficulty levels) and the idea of avoiding enemies to help with that, RE4 was entirely about gunning down everything in your path. Number of weapons isn't quite as important as how they're used, and RE4/RE5 focused entirely on the action.

Also, there were a number of puzzles in the original games that were more than just "find key, go to lock." One of the most infamous being the water sample puzzle toward the end of RE3. Each game usually featured a few puzzles that actually required a few moments of problem solving. RE4 came close from time to time, but by RE5 the concept had pretty much disappeared.

Again, I still wouldn't call the game slow/methodical. I'd reiterate that it has creepy moments here and there, but the game as a whole just isn't all that creepy. The enhanced camera and aiming greatly diminish the jump scares found commonly in the earlier games, and the uber weapons and combat style do a lot to remove any sense of desperation or weakness. Salazar's Right Hand Man would have been terrifying in the original games... but in RE4 it was just another boss mob to me. Hit it with an RPG (overpowered as fuck), then spam the hell out of my auto shotgun and its absurd shell capacity until the thing was dead. No big deal.