A series of questions to those who want change in female game roles.

[Conner42]

Snip

I think people are forgetting the monetary aspect of the business. Artistic games, or ones that cater to a specific demographic beyond the norm, are not normally successful; nor is there a way to gauge the success of a new venture before it's released. People look at the successful, and try to copy it. Who would have guessed that 'Angry Birds' would have made that much money?

It's a strange thing to ask the Devs to cater to our interests, but rely on them to assume the risk, whether we bless it with reward or the market deems it a failure. Besides that it's the publishers and investors that provide the opportunity to the Devs to even explore the medium in ways in which they can justify to their financial backers.

Kickstarter is an interesting step in the direction of creativity, but how many of you have actually donated? And those that did; did you get what you wanted? Did you have any criticisms of the finished product?

Even a more "historically pure" form of art, such as painting; is still subject to the whims of the market. So one painter makes millions while another barely scrapes by. Devs, sadly, come and go based on the outcomes of there first big venture. Several make the switch to FTP models because of piracy issues. And we as a community still demand better from them?

The industry is a financial mind field, filled with artistic criticisms, copy cats, pirates, IP battles, and a consumer base that always seems to find fault in it in some way while ranting on about how they could do better and ask for more for less. Indeed, let us place the blame on the Devs, it's worked so well for us.

I already talked about this issue. In fact, that was what I was quoted on originally, but to save time, I'm just going to quote myself so you don't have to go back and look for it.

"Make your voice heard and whenever you see something that fits your idea and you would like to see more of those kinds of games, buy it and try to get a lot of other guys to buy it. If enough people chime in and what they want, the industry might actually take a risk, but it's up to the consumers to help them be thankful that they took that risk, otherwise they'll go "Nope, it's been proven once again that nobody wants to buy these kinds of games" and then we get another mediocre online shooter because that's apparently all people ever want."

"We, as the consumers need to start demanding better games, and if we actually get the industry to take a risk and make them be thankful for taking that risk, then we can see improvements. We have the right to want better. We have the right to say that the industry needs to change. But we also have to do our part as well."

So, yes, not all of the blame can be put on the game developers and the gaming industry. We have to do our part as well. We're not trying to ignore the financial aspect of everything. While the developers and the gaming industry have the power to make big budgeted games, the people have the power to spend their money on the games we want.

This is why we're raising issues like this, so we can get people on the same page and hopefully get the gaming industry to listen

 

[Savryc]

Considering it's the feminists that are meant to be the whiny ones there are a cringe worthy amount of whiny little boys in here too. This is why I hate feminism debates, they just make me want to round everyone involved up, stick em in a city, let them fight it out and unleash Walpurgisnacht on the survivors.

Anywhom, I'm no expert on this at all but I'd like to offer up Sun Shang Xiang (DW5 version, 6 just ruined her IMO, haven't played 7. Kinda hooked on the "empires" versions) to the strong females consideration list. I've always thought her to be one, she's tomboyish, proud, cocky and quite stubborn, not that these are what make a good female character, these are just some of her personality traits I've picked up on.

Spoiler: For your consideration

Of course I could be talking bollocks. Wouldn't be the first or last time.

 

[Porecomesis]

I've actually been thinking about something: how many non-humanoid female playable protagonists exist in video games? The only one I can think of is Amaterasu from Okami (and no, KOS-MOS does not count because she is, physically, a human that is called a robot).

Also, something else: has anyone else noticed that most robots and AIs (by that, I mean robots that actually look like robots and not like humans) in video games have masculine traits? Legion, Morpheus (Deus Ex) and the like all have masculine overtones. The only female ones I know seem to be confined to homekeeping duties.

Correct me if I'm wrong, of course; this is just speculation.

 

[Equality]

I've been playing video games since the 80s and seen how both the games and society's attitude to games has changed over the decades. Take a wild guess which sex (in general) was utterly dismissive of games and those who enjoyed them ... and still is, in general, today.

Today it seems that a popular theme is criticising men for "failing" in life by choosing to spend their free time playing video games and taking it easy instead of "manning up" like previous generations and doing the usual dull stuff like getting married, settling down, having kids and being "mature". Male gamers can be unemployed living at home, or extremely well paid professionals in their 30s ... this doesn't matter. The hobby in general is still dismissed as a childish thing to do (watching hours of vacuous reality TV or reading gossip in magazines - that, of course is completely different).

As for creating the "perfect" female character? Not possible. Too many people wanting too many different things. Is she pretty or ugly, covered or uncovered, completely independent or relies on a team, large breasted or small ... who cares? You'll still get someone who is convinced that there is still something wrong with the way she looks or acts or what she says.

Computer characters in general are showing great signs of improving - but of course there will still be fantasy figures, game playing is fantasy (when I play God of War I will cheerfully slaughter my way through monsters and innocents - it's a game) - but there are games that can affect you emotionally and think about certain situations and choices. Like the recent Walking Dead games (and, by the way, a quick fuck you to Telltale Games for messing up the release schedule so badly of a game that was initially promised as monthly) ... I genuinely cared about making sure Clementine was safe. Of course there's stuff that still makes no sense and utter fails in game "logic" (like having to find a key for a door when there's a wall you could climb over etc.) but generally games are getting much better for developing characters and adding more depth than simple good vs evil situations.

Take a look at the female dominated entertainment like Twilight - how realistic are the males in that? Bella has to be one of the most simpering, insipid characters I've read about but she's supposed to have these guys fighting over her because she's so special (I like the internet poster which described Twilight as "one young woman's choice between necrophilia and bestiality")? Or this recent Shades of Grey drivel? Outsold Harry Potter and it's all about an average woman getting a billionaire because she's so "special". Where's the concern over how male characters are portrayed, where's their "depth"? Nowhere. They serve a function to make the women feel special because they will risk so much/spend so much on them. I am more than happy for them to carry on with this, just don't ask me to sit through any of it ever again.

Games are getting better, characters are improving, but we'll continue to have the usual stereotypes as well. If you don't like them, don't pay for them. The market will dictate which games and genres will succeed in future.

 

[AdumbroDeus]

Again, most people are missing the point. It isn't even the clothes, not really. It's the things like poses, idle animations and the like.

For male characters, these convey their personality, for female characters they convey... that they're checking themselves out in an invisible full-length mirror.

While it's another area of geek culture, this definitely shows exactly what I'm getting at: http://images.elephantjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/avengers_booty_ass_emble_by_kevinbolk-d4hb4xl.jpg

Men are being sexualized too, but we don't seem to care. I wonder why that is.

The men who are sexualized are idealized, to facilitate fantasizing about being them. The women who are sexualized (aka the vast majority of women) are sexually objectified, meaning it facilitates fantasizing about getting with them.

There's a major difference.