a social experiment on racism

[Vegosiux]

I live in America so this might be a different situation, but as a black person, I've absolutely been treated like this and this shit sucks. Being PC, is not as racist or racist at all. There's a big scary black man stereotype, which is why a black actor playing a criminal can be considered a bad thing. Stopping people over how they dress if fucking stupid. Yes, black people are pulled over for no reason other being black at times, and gang violence is not as prevalent amongst the black community as you are framing it to be. Basically, nothing you said is true, or made any logical conclusion other then to justify a upsetting point of view looking at thing from a perspective of white privilege, and going "If I haven't seen it, it's not happening." Rather then confronting the harsh reality that all of that shit does happens to black people , unjustly.

A problem I in general have with the term "white privilege" is that it seems to be a result of an American-centric view, the view that the world outside USA is just like USA, that the same issues are relevant, that the same social dynamics are in play. My "privilege" of not being exposed to the presence of racism nearly as much as you have been exposed to it doesn't come from me being white, it comes from me having lived my own life on an entirely different continent.

 

[Thaluikhain]

A problem I in general have with the term "white privilege" is that it seems to be a result of an American-centric view, the view that the world outside USA is just like USA, that the same issues are relevant, that the same social dynamics are in play. My "privilege" of not being exposed to the presence of racism nearly as much as you have been exposed to it doesn't come from me being white, it comes from me having lived my own life on an entirely different continent.

There's certainly an element of that, yeah (here in Australia, activists like copying and pasting US activism, and don't bother to stop and think if it's relevant), but even if it works differently, in most parts of Europe, you have advantages if you are white rather than black. Of course, you might have extra advantages for being the right sort of white, but that's another issue.

 

[Vegosiux]

A problem I in general have with the term "white privilege" is that it seems to be a result of an American-centric view, the view that the world outside USA is just like USA, that the same issues are relevant, that the same social dynamics are in play. My "privilege" of not being exposed to the presence of racism nearly as much as you have been exposed to it doesn't come from me being white, it comes from me having lived my own life on an entirely different continent.

There's certainly an element of that, yeah (here in Australia, activists like copying and pasting US activism, and don't bother to stop and think if it's relevant), but even if it works differently, in most parts of Europe, you have advantages if you are white rather than black. Of course, you might have extra advantages for being the right sort of white, but that's another issue.

Yeah, that's true, but the "right kind of white"-privilege is just a bigger thing, or especially in Slovenia I can say, even "city folk" has many advantages over "rural folk". Black people being disadvantaged is a lesser issue in the big picture when there's really few of them, and other kinds of inequality become more pressing and higher on the list of priorities.

My neighbor is black, working in Slovenia, and the worst he gets is those "Oh hey, a black person, you don't see that every day around here" glances as far as he tells me. Now, if he was an immigrant from Bosnia or Serbia, well...that would be an entirely different tune and a lot more bigotry to deal with, being called "Sandal-wearing chav" and the like.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

SNIP

I live in America so this might be a different situation, but as a black person, I've absolutely been treated like this and this shit sucks. Being PC, is not as racist or racist at all. There's a big scary black man stereotype, which is why a black actor playing a criminal can be considered a bad thing. Stopping people over how they dress if fucking stupid. Yes, black people are pulled over for no reason other being black at times, and gang violence is not as prevalent amongst the black community as you are framing it to be. Basically, nothing you said is true, or made any logical conclusion other then to justify a upsetting point of view looking at thing from a perspective of white privilege, and going "If I haven't seen it, it's not happening." Rather then confronting the harsh reality that all of that shit does happens to black people , unjustly.[/quote]

Not saying there isnt racism and black people arent being abused due to their colour. But i personally havnt seen it that i can remember, an im talking constant abuse like in the video. But i agree, its disgusting in this day and age. Im sure there are racist police, just like there are racist black people. They are every where and they will never change. Though i would like to think racism isnt as bad as it was 50 years ago though i also realise that is a meaningless statement when your on the receiving end of it.

As for the gang stuff. I worked in the London Gang Unit for 2.5 years from 2008 - 2010 and at that time 27 teens were stabbed to death on the streets of London in 2007. All were linked to gang violence and those responsible for it and the victims of it were predominately black teens. Now i would like to mention these are deaths by stabbing and do not include those that got stabbed and survived, nor included adults either - we dealt with teen knife crime. Now im not saying there are no white gang members, in fact there are White gangs, Asian gangs, Turkish gangs, Albanian gangs as well many others with members from teens to adults. An where some would see "27 mostly black teens stabbed to death by other mostly black teens" as a racial issue. Personally me and my unit would work with other statuary services and community leaders to find out why the figures are what they are. An what can be done to help these teens break out of gangs and gang violence and give them the help to gain schooling, jobs and help them move out of the area and away from gang influence. Most of the time they are forced into it for survival if they live in a gang area - they are victims as well as those they attack - as difficult as that is to believe.

So as you can see, im not in denial about how black people are treated by a small minority of society. I was confronting it every day for 2.5 years during my job. But all that horrible stuff i saw i still have never judged all black people by the violent minority of black people. An just because there are racist arseholes out there, black people can beat them by treating other white people respectfully and not judging all of them due to the minority. Otherwise you would be feeding the negative sterotype of black males. Same way if i treated all black males as gang thugs due the minority of black males i met, i would be feeding a black person the idea that all white people are racist arseholes. (If that makes sense, guess i could write that better).

 

[PhiMed]

Rape is not a result of poverty.

No, but it is more frequent in areas of poverty.

Also, convictions are more frequent as well. Class and race play a big part in the US justice system (and, to an extent, other around the world).

Is that something you're assuming, or something on which you've actually seen statistics? The closest thing I've seen to a fact supporting your statement is an association between poverty and being a victim of sexual violence. They include having to resort to prostitution in their definition of "being subjected to sexual violence", which makes sense... desperate people and their measures and all.

On the other hand, I haven't seen anything, anywhere, that uses actual facts to suggest that impoverished people are more likely to perpetrate a rape. In fact, college campuses have rape rates that are generally greater than the rate for the general population, so I'm not too convinced that poverty is that strong a player. As for conviction, it's a widely accepted truism that the rich are more likely to be acquitted than the impoverished purely because of lawyer power, but I'm not sure anyone will ever know much simply being rich has to do with the conviction statistics. It's not an easily tested value. It sounds good, though, and it's logical, so I'm not going to challenge that directly. I'll just say that I don't think the disparity can be attributed, entirely to poverty, especially since saying that the racial statistics are skewed sort of implies that all black people are poor, which is also untrue.

So, is the statement that poverty is associated with being a perpetrator of rape something that you know is true, or something you believe to be true? If it's the former, I wouldn't mind seeing something that supports it. If it's the latter, how sure are you?

 

[Thaluikhain]

Is that something you're assuming, or something on which you've actually seen statistics? The closest thing I've seen to a fact supporting your statement is an association between poverty and being a victim of sexual violence. They include having to resort to prostitution in their definition of "being subjected to sexual violence", which makes sense... desperate people and their measures and all.

On the other hand, I haven't seen anything, anywhere, that uses actual facts to suggest that impoverished people are more likely to perpetrate a rape. In fact, college campuses have rape rates that are generally greater than the rate for the general population, so I'm not too convinced that poverty is that strong a player. As for conviction, it's a widely accepted truism that the rich are more likely to be acquitted than the impoverished purely because of lawyer power, but I'm not sure anyone will ever know much simply being rich has to do with the conviction statistics. It's not an easily tested value. It sounds good, though, and it's logical, so I'm not going to challenge that directly. I'll just say that I don't think the disparity can be attributed, entirely to poverty, especially since saying that the racial statistics are skewed sort of implies that all black people are poor, which is also untrue.

So, is the statement that poverty is associated with being a perpetrator of rape something that you know is true, or something you believe to be true? If it's the former, I wouldn't mind seeing something that supports it. If it's the latter, how sure are you?

It's something I have seen statistics for, though I don't have any to hand at the moment, sorry.

One interpretation of this was that, rape being about power, people who feel powerless and victimised because of one thing might want to take power over and victimise someone else. Responding to classism with sexism. Possibly it might be because, like you say, poor people are more likely to be victims, and people living in poverty have more access to them, but I've no idea if this is a factor.

Though, like you say, conviction rates are going to be skewed, so it's hard to tell, and it's hardly as if it's the only factor.