Abortion....why?

[zelda2fanboy]

The other day at work I had to listen to a coworker (a guy I sort of like) do a mini-rant about the evils of abortion to five other guys. I was going to pop in my prepared pro-choice / pro abortion / troll speech, but I didn't bother. Not because I agreed with him, but because I really don't care anymore. Being a man, I can never have an abortion, nor can I legally bind someone against having an abortion. I'm all about freedom of choice and want it to be legal on that basis alone, but other than that it's difficult for me to work up the spirit to defend it strongly. (I mean I could, I just didn't and don't feel like it at the moment.)

The question I'm really posing was brought to me by moviebob's Breaking Dawn review. Why do so many people care so passionately and want to tell everyone why abortion is baaaaaadddddd? Entire works of art are devoted to it, even going as far back as Nightmare on Elm Street 5. It seems like a lot of Christians tend to be the "pro-lifers," but why is that really? I read the Bible. I really don't remember abortion being a topic for discussion, seeing as how the people who wrote the Bible and were alive when it took place didn't even know what germs were, let alone how sexual reproduction worked, let alone have a word for the concept of intentional aborted pregnancy.

Feel free to troll, flame, or otherwise do forum stuff that could get you banned or the thread deleted. I want to hear from both Christians, sociologists, and smart-alecks alike. Why is this a Christian cause? Who made it that way? And how is it perpetuated?

EDIT: People seem to have once again used this opportunity to once again tell us why abortion is wrongity wrong wrong wrong. Wrong. Sigh. Everyone thinks they're so interesting when it comes to sharing their beliefs. Here's my opinion on the matter and it's purely a silly and semantic one, but most of my reasoning usually is. How old are you? Is this date from when you were conceived? You don't know exactly when you were conceived? Seems like an important moment to forget. Oh, you celebrate your BIRTHday. The day you were born, i.e. began breathing on your own without the need for a mother to provide life support. The point at which you became a biologically independent human being, more or less.

A fetus is not a baby. That's why we call it a fetus. Lava is molten rock on the Earth's surface. Magma is molten rock underneath the Earth's surface. Lava may become magma and magma may become lava, but lava is not magma. Therefore a fetus is not a baby. There. I can't be swayed otherwise, so don't even bother.

Also, did not know about ancient abortions, but the abortion methods used in ancient times do not appear to be related to the way that they are currently done and what people protest so much. Same basic concept, but substantially different in many ways.

 

[BreakfastMan]

Entire works of art are devoted to it, even going as far back as Nightmare on Elm Street 5.

Does it seem weird to anyone else that those two things are in the same sentence?

OT: It is because most pro-life people consider abortion equal to murder. They think that when one aborts, that person is killing a child, and emotions take over. As for why Christians think it is bad, well the Bible says murder is bad, so by putting two and two together... I think you can do the rest.

 

[DailonCmann]

It's a religious thing because the best way to have a ever expanding group of followers is to have your followers have kids. The more kids they have, the more future followers. This is why Catholicism is particularly large. Think of families who are stereotyped as being "large families" and what religion are they? Most of the time, they are Catholic. People are going to have sex, the best way to cash in on this is to ban contraceptives and abortion so as many kids are born into that religion as possible.

 

[isometry]

It's simple really. Abortion is legal in the US, so those of us who are pro-abortion have gotten our way. We don't feel the need to complain.

On the other hand, the anti-abortion people are continually upset by the law not supporting their views.

Just imagine if we lived in a country where women could not get legal abortions, I would definitely be more upset and motivated to express a political voice on the issue.

Slightly deeper, the fat cats that manipulate religious conservatives to vote for republican politicians only really care about one thing: their money, which they protect by opposing taxes and regulation. These fat cats don't ever want Roe v Wade to be overturned, because if that happened Democrats would be united in anger and vote in greater numbers than they do now, endangering the fat cats bank accounts. In this way they manipulate their constituents to be forever angry about not getting their way, which causes them to turn out in disproportionate numbers every election.

 

[Reaper195]

There are many out there that believe the instant a woman becomes pregnant (I.E. the first few days), that the future-child is alive and that an abortion is murder. Personally, I find this view fucking stupid, because most people that believe this are not vegans and seem to have no problem eating meat. Until about the eighth or so month, the foetus is more or less a circulatory and nervous system with no cognitive thought.

And like a fair few, and the OP, I am fully behind a persons free will of choice. Because really, if your daughter was raped and fell the preggers, would you have no problem with the prospect of her giving birth to an assholes baby? Would you feel no problem to your daughter having a child, and being constantly reminded that she was raped instead of moving on?

(I'm not trivialising rape, I'm simply not making it the main point)

 

[Soggy Toast]

Entire works of art are devoted to it, even going as far back as Nightmare on Elm Street 5.

Does it seem weird to anyone else that those two things are in the same sentence?

LMFAO!! Well, now that you mention it.....

 

[lacktheknack]

Christian's are anti-abortion because of biblical passages referring to pre-conception plans of God ("You knit me together in my mother's womb", "My name was carved on your hand", etc).

And why do anti-abortionists protest it so hard? Because if fetuses are, in fact, living humans, then abortion is legalized murder, end of. If they are not, it is not.

Hence why the terms are "pro-life" vs. "pro-choice" (pro-life argues that abortion is murder, pro choice argues that the parents should be able to do whatever they want with the fetus).

 

[Thaluikhain]

Additionally, because they don't respect women as people. If you ban abortion, you are saying that women are not best suited to deciding what to do about their own bodies.

You are also saying that if a pregnancy is putting a woman's life at risk, her life is less important than the potential child. This comes up alot, likewise with rape, incest, underage pregnancies...the same people who object to a healthy, middle class woman having an abortion tend to be the same people who are outraged at a 12 year old girl who'd fallen pregnant after being raped by her father having one.

 

[prestoprozak]

It's not about the babies, or 'right to life', because these people are the same ones who don't give a shit about providing for these children after they're born. They are clearly against birth control, the single best way to prevent abortions from being needed in the first place. They don't oppose 'abstinence only' education in schools, the only possible thing i can think of that fails with more regularity than prayer. It's not obviously not about life. It's about their extremely uncomfortable standing with sex. Outlawing abortion is about punishing the diry sl*ts for having the AUDACITY to have sex.

 

[DailonCmann]

As for why Christians think it is bad, well the Bible says murder is bad, so by putting two and two together... I think you can do the rest.

So, why is fighting wars okay? Or the death penalty?

 

[worldruler8]

I don't really care much about the issue. I myself am "pro-choice" (never liked that, as it implies the other side is against choosing), I could never willingly abort a baby. anyways, I was at college today, and some anti-abortion groups had written in chalk around the sidewalks a bunch of anti-abortion scribbles, such as "The heart beats at 21 days <3" or "Abortion is Pre-Born GENOCIDE" (I liked that one!). But there was one that made me feel very... unsettled. "Smile! Your mom chose life!". After I read that one, I just had a myriad of thoughts roam around my head, and they weren't good ones. I live in michigan, and I don't need to tell you it's fucking cold out, but the thought that the cold wind of michigan was better the not feeling anything at all just scared the fuck out of me. ofc, to be fair, I heard that a baby doesn't develop a nervous system until a whopping 7 months. WELL past the first trimester. idk, I just think it's a heated issue, and one that won't go away anytime soon.

 

[the spud]

Well, first off, The Escapist is somewhere arouns 3/4 atheist like me, so expect somewhat skewed results.

OT: I don't really feel qualified to say.

 

[Ranorak]

It comes down to a matter of definition.
When do you consider something alive enough to be murdered.

I scratch more living cells off my arm when I wear a itchy sweater then some early abortions, yet no one seems to cry foul at that.
Not to mention the amount of genocide we all participate in when we have a date with rosie palms.
Individual cells are not "murder" worthy, the problem is when does it become murder?
The argument is where this line should be drawn.

 

[Thaluikhain]

It's simple really. Abortion is legal in the US, so those of us who are pro-abortion have gotten our way. We don't feel the need to complain.

On the other hand, the anti-abortion people are continually upset by the law not supporting their views.

Just imagine if we lived in a country where women could not get legal abortions, I would definitely be more upset and motivated to express a political voice on the issue.

Slightly deeper, the fat cats that manipulate religious conservatives to vote for republican politicians only really care about one thing: their money, which they protect by opposing taxes and regulation. These fat cats don't ever want Roe v Wade to be overturned, because if that happened Democrats would be united in anger and vote in greater numbers than they do now, endangering the fat cats bank accounts. In this way they manipulate their constituents to be forever angry about not getting their way, which causes them to turn out in disproportionate numbers every election.

Er...to an extent. Although abortions are legal, anti-choice types have come up with any number of ways to try and put them out of people's reach, which pro-choice activists complain about.

Limit the number of clinics to provide abortions so people have to travel long distances, forcing them to jump through a bunch of hoops before hand (having to look at an ultrasound and be lectured about how great pregnancy is) and so on. They aren't so much trying to overturn Roe vs Wade, just reduce it to irrelevance.

Of course, these measures are only really useful against low income women, but then it's their own fault for being poor.

It's not about the babies, or 'right to life', because these people are the same ones who don't give a shit about providing for these children after they're born. They are clearly against birth control, the single best way to prevent abortions from being needed in the first place. They don't oppose 'abstinence only' education in schools, the only possible thing i can think of that fails with more regularity than prayer. It's not obviously not about life. It's about their extremely uncomfortable standing with sex. Outlawing abortion is about punishing the diry sl*ts for having the AUDACITY to have sex.

Yeah, there does seem to be a strong element of this. Though, I think alot of it is due to being rather myopic about sex, and assuming that what works for them will work for everyone else.

...

And, of course, the majority of people who are opposed to abortions are the ones safe in the knowledge that they'll never need to get one.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

I have some pro-life leanings

And yet I don't debate abortion. Why? Because I have nothing to say that the other person has not heard several times before, and vice-versa. It's one of those pointless issues to bring up, like gun control. The court isn't going to rule in the other direction any time soon, as far as I can tell.

 

[JoesshittyOs]

Entire works of art are devoted to it, even going as far back as Nightmare on Elm Street 5.

Does it seem weird to anyone else that those two things are in the same sentence?

I didn't even know they made it to five movies.

OT: I don't know really. Lately I've been having trouble finding good enough reasons for me being a pro-choice.

Abortion is a tricky subject for me, something where I never quite got comfortable with either choice. I think the choice of the woman outweighs the fetus who is not yet born. I believe if the woman is even considering having an abortion, that child would be destined to have a terrible life.

Kid's are emotionally and physically expensive. You can't half-heartedly think you might want one, and an orphanage generally never goes anywhere for the child.

The only problem with this is that I personally don't even think this is a strong enough reason to be a Pro-choice. And someone who grew up as a Christian? That'll never get through.

 

[NotSoLoneWanderer]

I would say it's christian because killing is wrong and fetuses are human life or at least the potential for regardless of whether it's 1st month of 9th month. Like if someone killed there own child which most of us would say is wrong. Also the bible doesn't say a lot of things and the things that it is clear on like "Thou shalt not kill(Unless your god...oh wait that's me!)(I like to imagine god(if he/she/it?/he/yeah he/have you read the bible?/Must be he exists) thought that when he sent down the Ten Commandments)" is still given addendums for convenience. Thou shalt not kill unless a crime is committed that we as humans say is deserving of death.

Whew lots of revisions and re-writings above and I'm still not happy with it. Errmm in short its a christian cause because the bible says thou shalt not kill, I guess christians leaders made it that way because they always need an evil to denounce when there not raping nuns and little boys, and it's perpetuated by pro-lifers and pro-choicers. Especially by politicians who take either stand and bring it up during elections.

 

[gphjr14]

As for why Christians think it is bad, well the Bible says murder is bad, so by putting two and two together... I think you can do the rest.

So, why is fighting wars okay? Or the death penalty?

Religion is just what people use to draw support/participation from the ill informed. Communist nations invaded and killed plenty of people, all they did was replace religion with political thought. To answer the question why? Money, resources the reasons why most wars are fought.