Accidental Cleanliness Destroys $1.1m Art Installation

[Mauso88]

The cleaner mistook the piece of art for an unsightly mess, who says the two things are mutually exclusive?

 

[procrasty]

wow, something you don't like doesn't deserve to be destroyed you know.

you hate it (based on a low res photo on the internet, which i guess is enough to judge) so it's great that it was damaged? that's...a really horrible mindset.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

And people who haven't even seen the piece start commenting about how modern art is trash, typical.


Perhaps you guys don't realize this, but YOU'RE NOT THE CROWD THAT IT'S AIMED FOR.

Compare a lot of modern to games like limbo. Notice how stylized the game is, to the point where everything is completely abstract and seen only as shadows. That conveys a lot of meaning, but at the same time, principal one of modern arts is:

1. The more abstract the art becomes, the more meaning it can convey, but the more difficult it is to discern the meaning of the piece.


This is true to the point where some pieces intended to convey many layers of meaning are complete gibberish. This is the point where people can sneak bullshit in as "art". Since this is the level where telling the difference between something that has many layers of meaning that are simply difficult to discern and having no meaning whatsoever requires a significant art education, this is the level where people can give meaningless pieces to rich people who like being opulent.

If it requires an art degree to understand it, chances are it has no real meaning, and even the people with art degrees are just making stuff up so they won't look stupid in their peer's eyes. Again, the Emperor's New Clothes.

 

[procrasty]

but it doesn't "require a degree". like any cultural output, it just requires interest. i like it, but i've been interested in it for quite some time, so yeah, there are various little things you have to learn to "get it" but it's not stuff that requires any more study than the basic "language" of film, or literary devices. you have to do a cirtain amount of learning to understand everything in culture.

it's not a failing on a persons part not to understand it, but it's also not a failing on a works part if it relys on the language of it's field.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

but it doesn't "require a degree". like any cultural output, it just requires interest. i like it, but i've been interested in it for quite some time, so yeah, there are various little things you have to learn to "get it" but it's not stuff that requires any more study than the basic "language" of film, or literary devices. you have to do a cirtain amount of learning to understand everything in culture.

it's not a failing on a persons part not to understand it, but it's also not a failing on a works part if it relys on the language of it's field.

Okay, fair enough, but show me a single piece from these modern Dadaist wannabes that is actually worth the materials it was made of, and actually has some deep meaning that goes beyond shock value. You won't find it. As I said earlier, at some point they forgot that the entire point of real Dada was that the art was crap, and in fact that the whole notion of art was meaningless. These post-post-modernist pretentious assholes? They've managed to pervert Dada into the very establishment it was trying to destroy. They are the ultimate sellouts.

 

[Zefar]

and yet, the custodians don't go throwing Picasso's into the trash. Guess they knew this one was garbage.

Well the huge difference is that Picasso's paintings are at least on the wall with a frame around it. It still look like crap but he did paint it.

Personally I find all of this "New" art to be completely retarded. Most of it are made by people who couldn't paint for shit. Well someone probably used shit to paint. Or at least make some stains to skid tracks.

But still I've bought a painting from a guy who went to door to door and sold just some hand painted picture of several trees in a forest.

It was really really good. But this guy ain't getting $50000 or so at all. Noooo we gonna have to give this to the people who can place objects in a weird way.

I'll get a picture later though if I want too.

Btw anyone remember when some monkeys or elephants painted some paintings and the judges wasn't told about it? Then when they revealed that it was made by animals they where furious.
http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/weblog/comments/3836/

AHa found it. Those people are just looking for ways to make money without even trying.

 

[Sectan]

Probably a bad comparison, but art is like a joke. If you have to explain it, you've already killed it. Some guy had a chimp paint a bunch of scribbles and it was brought to an art show and some (Professional? I don't know I didn't pay attention) appraisers appraised the piece at a few hundred thousand. When they were told it was painted by a chimp it was worthless. It seems people just buy the names on the pieces instead of the pieces themselves.

EDIT: Haha didn't even see the guy's post above me. Was typing this from the first page

 

[procrasty]

Okay, fair enough, but show me a single piece from these modern Dadaist wannabes that is actually worth the materials it was made of, and actually has some deep meaning that goes beyond shock value. You won't find it.

so..you're asking me to provide an example, but also saying that if i come up with one you'll ignore it? that's not much of a motivator, but i'll go on anyway. in this case i'd mention the "unmade bed" (tracy emin), often derided as "shock" but basically a self portrait, exactly the kind of thing artists have been painting for years, but created in three dimentions using real objects, as a scene the audiance can expore, actually employing some of the same narrative deivices that many FPS games do.
as i say, it gets dismissed as "shock" but if the done thing here is doing a like for like with games, the same viewpoint it applied to those by people who just don't like them.
there's nothing wrong with not liking something, but that doesn't make the thing you don't like of no value to anyone, or worthy of being destroyed, and it doesn't make the people who make it frauds, or the people who like it wrong to do so.

As I said earlier, at some point they forgot that the entire point of real Dada was that the art was crap, and in fact that the whole notion of art was meaningless. These post-post-modernist pretentious assholes? They've managed to pervert Dada into the very establishment it was trying to destroy. They are the ultimate sellouts.

or they have different ideas on the value of that work than you. not everyone agrees that was what dada was about, and of people who do, not all of them agree they were right.

 

[Kuilui]

Hold on THAT is worth how much?! Excuse me I'm going to go collect some picket fencing and get some wood glue. I'd say what else I'm going to do but the money is mine! *Runs off to home depo*

 

[Slayer_2]

Modern art is so creative (and indistinguishable from a mess), yet video games are nothing but toys for kids designed to corrupt them. This kinda thing was bound to happen sometime.

 

[Evilsanta]

What? How can that be worth that much money?! (Saw the pic of it) WTF is wrong with the world if something like that is worth 1.1 million?!

My mind can' comprehend this...


OT: That was art? Ok...And games aren't art because?

 

[archabaddon]

"The world has lost a valuable, irreplaceable piece of art", no it definitely has not. If your "art" is indistinguishable from trash, you are a failure. You are a drain on society and a waste of space. Go get a real job loser.

I'm sure the artist would if he wasn't terribly dead.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Okay, fair enough, but show me a single piece from these modern Dadaist wannabes that is actually worth the materials it was made of, and actually has some deep meaning that goes beyond shock value. You won't find it.

so..you're asking me to provide an example, but also saying that if i come up with one you'll ignore it? that's not much of a motivator, but i'll go on anyway. in this case i'd mention the "unmade bed" (tracy emin), often derided as "shock" but basically a self portrait, exactly the kind of thing artists have been painting for years, but created in three dimentions using real objects, as a scene the audiance can expore, actually employing some of the same narrative deivices that many FPS games do.
as i say, it gets dismissed as "shock" but if the done thing here is doing a like for like with games, the same viewpoint it applied to those by people who just don't like them.
there's nothing wrong with not liking something, but that doesn't make the thing you don't like of no value to anyone, or worthy of being destroyed, and it doesn't make the people who make it frauds, or the people who like it wrong to do so.

As I said earlier, at some point they forgot that the entire point of real Dada was that the art was crap, and in fact that the whole notion of art was meaningless. These post-post-modernist pretentious assholes? They've managed to pervert Dada into the very establishment it was trying to destroy. They are the ultimate sellouts.

or they have different ideas on the value of that work than you. not everyone agrees that was what dada was about, and of people who do, not all of them agree they were right.

Tracy Emin? Dude, I think you may be the only person on the planet who both likes Tracy Emin and /isn't/ a paid art critic. Unmade bed was truly a piece of crap. She may have had artistic intentions behind it, but seriously, she basically curated her own nasty ass bedroom. Does anyone want to pay me for an exhibit of my bedroom? The floor isn't strewn with condoms, but there's dirty laundry all over the place. Tracy Emin is an example of exactly what is wrong with modern art. She's not doing anything profound, she's not doing anything that takes any real talent, she just makes crap, puts it up on the wall, and somehow makes millions on it.

As I said earlier, you want to see some art that actually represents a generation? Go to memebase. Those anonymous artists are actually making relevant works of art; Tracy Emin and her ilk make self indulgent cash grabs.

 

[archabaddon]

What? How can that be worth that much money?! (Saw the pic of it) WTF is wrong with the world if something like that is worth 1.1 million?!

My mind can' comprehend this...


OT: That was art? Ok...And games aren't art because?

Because of the attitudes associated with gamers. That's my best guess anyhow Although the performances of some gamers [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2QxLpS3aIM] could surely count as performance art.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

What? How can that be worth that much money?! (Saw the pic of it) WTF is wrong with the world if something like that is worth 1.1 million?!

My mind can' comprehend this...


OT: That was art? Ok...And games aren't art because?

Because of the attitudes associated with gamers. That's my best guess anyhow Although the performances of some gamers [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2QxLpS3aIM] could surely count as performance art.

Personally, I think it's gamers insistence that games somehow have to be art to be worthwhile that is the real issue. Do you really want your hobby to be counted amongst the ranks of such seminal[footnote]Also, "<link=http://news.softpedia.com/news/Sperm-Art-He-Paints-Using-His-Semen-76190.shtml>seminal"[/footnote] works as "Piss Jesus?" Besides, the whole thing has always smacked to me of gamer insecurity; specifically, they're embarrassed that they still play with toys, so they want it to be called "art," so that they feel like they're doing things for grownups. Well, newsflash, guys: grownups still have toys, they're just more expensive than the ones kids play with -- and videogames actually fit that definition. Another newsflash: even toys can be art. Think 19th century handcrafted Noah's Ark playsets; those had to be individually sculpted by someone.

Edit: Also, I just clicked your link. If those subtitles are accurate -- which they seem to be, from what cognates and direct loan words (Unreal Tournament, for example) I can pick out -- that video is actually more disturbing than any non-German speaker previously realized. He was flipping out while the game was in the process of loading; I always thought it was more typical gamer rage, and this was set off by an online ass kicking.

 

[Chewster]

That is worth $1.1 Million!?

BRB gluing a bunch of sticks together so I can get myself set for life.

Oh dear, the usual indignation at how much is spent on art, simply because you don't see the artistic merit in what is made.

At the risk of becoming unpopular since it seems like everyone is saying the same thing, I often like to refer to this pic when these kinds of comments crop up:

Spoiler

As for the installation, weak sauce, but it could be an interesting exercise for the original creator to see how he cam make a new one, and how close it comes to the original. Either way, I am sure he will live. The art gallery will have some serious issues to face, however.

Is it art? I don't know, but I do know that most people who ***** about modern art don't even bother to try and get themselves involved in it, even as amateurs. Much easier to shout from the sidelines.

 

[procrasty]

Tracy Emin? Dude, I think you may be the only person on the planet who both likes Tracy Emin and /isn't/ a paid art critic.

i know other people who like her work, a lot of other people, i'm sorry this doesn't fit with your view that you're opinion on contempory art is the end of the debate, but she's actually very popular.

Unmade bed was truly a piece of crap. She may have had artistic intentions behind it, but seriously, she basically curated her own nasty ass bedroom. Does anyone want to pay me for an exhibit of my bedroom? The floor isn't strewn with condoms, but there's dirty laundry all over the place.

her piece was a dairamma, a recreation of a scene, with detailed notes and a thought out narrative, even from a technical standpoint it's not the same as you letting people into your room. that's a good way to dismiss something you don't like, but it doesn't make it an accurate comparason.

Tracy Emin is an example of exactly what is wrong with modern art. She's not doing anything profound, she's not doing anything that takes any real talent, she just makes crap, puts it up on the wall, and somehow makes millions on it.

you don't like her work, so that makes it not profound, and means it requires no talent? i go back to my opening statement of "wow". what is that bad about just saying you don't like something? why do you have to justify this dislike by completely dismissing someones intent, ability, and the value their work has to people who happen to not be you?

 

[Hero in a half shell]

And people who haven't even seen the piece start commenting about how modern art is trash, typical.


Perhaps you guys don't realize this, but YOU'RE NOT THE CROWD THAT IT'S AIMED FOR.

Compare a lot of modern to games like limbo. Notice how stylized the game is, to the point where everything is completely abstract and seen only as shadows. That conveys a lot of meaning, but at the same time, principal one of modern arts is:

1. The more abstract the art becomes, the more meaning it can convey, but the more difficult it is to discern the meaning of the piece.


This is true to the point where some pieces intended to convey many layers of meaning are complete gibberish. This is the point where people can sneak bullshit in as "art". Since this is the level where telling the difference between something that has many layers of meaning that are simply difficult to discern and having no meaning whatsoever requires a significant art education, this is the level where people can give meaningless pieces to rich people who like being opulent.

What do you mean I am not the crowd that the art installation is aimed at? apparently neither was the cleaning lady, or 99% of this Forum, then who the blooming heck is the intended audience? It's supposed to be public art. You can't make an artpiece, have everyone tell you "That's a load of bollocks!" and then say, "Well YOU can't criticise it, because YOU are not the intended audience." To come up with that excuse shows that there is something gravely wrong.

The point of the shadows in Limbo are that they appeal to our simplist instincts. They are jagged, dark and dangerous looking, which universally creates the feeling of dread, of a dangeous, unfriendly world that you are not safe in. There is no "Well, that particular jagged edge is personally very meaningful to be because it appeals to my socialist fears and discredits my far-right leanings, from a political perspective..."
The shadows in Limbo create a universal ambience that anyone, from any race, background, social standing, will find makes the game more tense, darker, and more mysterious. No one will play that and say "Oh yes, the shadows reminded me of the My Little Pony cartoons!" What a delightfully whimsical feeling the game created.
To use the shadows of Limbo as a stylised feel for the minority is bullcrap.

Good art should be recognisable to all, if not, the vast majority of people. Stand that cleaning lady in front of a Da Vinci painting, or under the Cistene Chapel, and I'm sure she will be able to appreciate the skill and craftmanship that went in to it. Read her some great poetry, "The Raven" By E.A.Poe, which is written in such a way as to invoke dread pretty much universally in it's hearers, or sit her down in front of an orchestra, and have them play some Bach, or Beethoven. Again the melodies, harmonies and various crescendoes etc. will fill her with delight, or at the very least she will recognise that it took considerable skill and effort to come up with such music.

I have a paint-stain in my Garage. It is, for all intents and purposes, similar to the fake rain stain that was so vigourously bleached away by the cleaning lady. Now, if I were to show that paint stain to anyone else it would mean nothing.
That stain was made by my dad, who has a furious temper and will bite the head off you whenever you do the tiniest thing wrong, but one day when he was mixing paint he knocked half a tin of emulsion paint onto the garage floor, and it dried there and has stayed ever since. I could call it "Nobodies perfect" and seeing it would remind me that, looking at our strained relationship, even he makes mistakes.
Again I have two secondary school history books of his, one Classwork and one homework. My dad is a serious academic and amateur historian, he pretty much holds academia above all else, so it greatly amused me that, while his History schoolwork book is full of perfectly neat written essays all with 9 or 10 marks out of 10, his homework book is an absolute shambles, filled with disasterously incompetent scrawlings clearly written in the toilets and clockrooms in a blind panic 5 minutes before class. My favourite piece in it is a 3 page essay about the Communist "Leon Trofsky" (marked 3/10 )
The best bit about knowing he was terrible at doing his homework is that I was exactly the same way (and since we both went to the same school we probably did our homework in the same toilet cubicle)

My point being that those things, while having immense personal value to me, mean absolutely nothing to anyone else. They are not art, and certainly not public art. They are mementos, or keepsakes. To quote a bloke from radio 4, in an argument as to why videogames aren't art: "I'd suggest that the things we really consider art are the things that allow us to ask profound questions about who we are, how we live and the state of the world around us. I think most games don't get to that place, and it's important to set that bar quite high." Now, you can't say of the now extinct puddle exhibit "You are not the crowd it's aimed for" because the piece raises no questions of ourselves, or the world around us. In that case it is the fault of the piece, not ourselves. If an exhibit designed to create an emotional or intellectual response in a person does not achieve that goal, then it is a failed exhibit.

Finally I would just like to pull you up on this point:

telling the difference between something that has many layers of meaning that are simply difficult to discern and having no meaning whatsoever requires a significant art education

Bullcrap. This is the same type of attitude that leads to all those crap interpretations of poems that are obviously false. I did English for A-level, and we did poem interpretations, of which there were two stages. The first was to look at the technical and academic devices in the poems. Alliteration, Similies, metaphors, the rhythm, rhyming structure, assonance, etc. And this showed the skill of the poet, to be able to create such a deliciously flowing collection of prose that tripped off the tongue and would sound so pleasing to the ear when read.
Then we had to interpret them, and this relied totally on the ability of the reader to talk absolute codswallop about nothing at all, "Oh, this poem is actually about war, or sex" (Handy Hint: virtually every poem in existence can be interpreted to be about war or sex.)

As I said, if you need an art degree to understand public art then you are most certainly doing it wrong! No one ever looked at Michaelangelos David and said "I don't get it, what is it supposed to be?" It is this hoity toity attitude that the strength of the art is in the personal interpretation of the viewer that has resulted in so much bollocks being produced. The artist should be the one creating the visual metaphors and intellectual themes through his art, not dumping a pile of rubbish on the floor and saying "That's my work over, now you have to work out what it means. Can I get paid now?"

Thankyou for listening. I have been Hero in a half shell, and this has been the Escapist's Art Corner. Goodnight.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

That is worth $1.1 Million!?

BRB gluing a bunch of sticks together so I can get myself set for life.

Oh dear, the usual indignation at how much is spent on art, simply because you don't see the artistic merit in what is made.

At the risk of becoming unpopular since it seems like everyone is saying the same thing, I often like to refer to this pic when these kinds of comments crop up:

Spoiler

As for the installation, weak sauce, but it could be an interesting exercise for the original creator to see how he cam make a new one, and how close it comes to the original. Either way, I am sure he will live. The art gallery will have some serious issues to face, however.

Is it art? I don't know, but I do know that most people who ***** about modern art don't even bother to try and get themselves involved in it, even as amateurs. Much easier to shout from the sidelines.

Mostly because people don't associate making a crappy looking fence panel as art.

It's not that people didn't think to do it first, it's that people don't think a fence panel has any artistic merit and wouldn't have the narcissism to think so.

Well, until some hipster douche comes along anyway....

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

The very moment you have to train the janitor to be able to tell art from a dirty mess, I believe ridicule should be the least of your problems.

If art used to consist of mastering the elements, or apply paint to canvas in a rather unique fashion, manifesting humanity, "modern" art mainly seems to serve the purpose of turning shit into gold. A lot of folks keep bashing, say, Damien Hirst, but at least his works involve serious work and he seemingly put quite some thought into them.

I stopped going to the local art gallery when actual paintings and sculptures were replaced by piles of dried paint scratched from walls, excessive amounts of purpose-free plumping and lots of, well, rather naive little drawings stuck together with sticky tape. I can dig "brut", but the sheer amounts of nonsense just plain cannot and shold not be discussed.

"But, is it art?" was probably the trigger to vulgarize art and cause everyone to feel an urge to give it a go. Thing is, if the piece of art is mainly a cheaply assembled waste of resources, and the most outstanding feature is a hand-painted stain, I really believe the fictional value represented by a bunch of glued together pieces of wood is a bigger scandal than whatever goes on in investment banking or daytrading. It feels like a modern day equivalent of trading baubles and trinkets, glass marbles for gold. It's just wrong. If someone from another galaxy would have to emergency land on earth, I think the works of old masters would speak for themselves and make obvious of what humans were capable of creating. If the alien would stumble over a lot of modern art, we'd all look like scruffy bastards.