Achievements, I hope they go away next generation

Epona

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Kitsuna10060 said:
-.- if you need a cheat device to get an achievement, you don't deserve it.

but I'd like to see them be worth pursuing, like tied to some kinda in game 'thingy' unlock, Golden Eye on the N64 was great for this, as it had a TON of cheats built in, just needed to unlock them

Dawn of War2: Retribution, Last Stand mode has 2 per character that net you new gear once you get them.

THIS is the kind of achievement i want to see more of.
I don't want achievements at all and I'd like the freedom to cheat if I feel like it. In game cheats are fine but not all games have them. I grew up playing with the Game Genie on the NES/SNES/Genesis and I have cheat devices for the Gamecube, DS and PS2. I used them for fun and sometimes they are a backup if you just get stuck.
 

Jacob Haggarty

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I personally don't see it as a problem, i see it as win-win.

People who quite like achievments have something to work towards after getting to the point where they would be bored of a game if it DIDN'T have any. So it increases the value of their game for them.

Those who don't like it so much are free to ignore it, they can even turn of the notifications if they want. They neither subtract or really add anything if you're not into them, so what's the point in getting angry?

No, what needs to go is the over-all uselessness of it. Achievements need to be worth a damn, maybe (like in some games) unlocking minor new content, like weapons or attachments or, better yet, experience. Maybe they could give you a new map or something bigger for getting them all? I don't know, just my thinking.
 

major28

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Ulquiorra4sama said:
I don't really like multipplayer achievements though 'cause i usually feel like there's someone else getting in the way of my performance and that just pisses me off. That's the reason i never got that platinum in AC Brotherhood. Had all the single player ones and a couple online ones, but never got all of them.
I hate the multiplayer trophies for ac:b so much. It is driving me insane bc, I beat the first Assassins Creed and pretty much did everything there is to do. I platinumed (OT i love that that is a word now) the second game and now i have all the trophies but 2 of the multiplayer bc i cant get a triple escape since it is dam near impossible and no one is ever close enough to my score for me to take the lead in the last 10 seconds of the game. I really love this series and I want to be able to say that I have platinumed all of them but this is driving me mad.
 

Epona

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lacktheknack said:
Crono1973 said:
lacktheknack said:
If they're worthless, they can't be used as justification for anything... you can still cheat if the game allows it, and the fall of offline play has pretty much nothing to do with achievements.

You can't have it both ways.
They are worthless to me and achievements are used as justification to not allow EXTERNAL cheat devices or programs. Look at the trainer controversy with Starcraft 2 or the fact there there are no cheat devices on current consoles.
Correlation =/= causation. If you're looking for things to blame the lack of external cheat devices, then blame A. online multiplayer, and/or B. increased hardware complexity.

Achievements are not insidious.
When you use the built in cheat codes for a game, say Half-Life 2 or Starcraft 2, doesn't that disable Achievements? Makes sense but that is also why external cheat devices and trainers aren't allowed anymore (did you even look up the Starcraft 2 controversy). There is correlation.
 

major28

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Jacob Haggarty said:
No, what needs to go is the over-all uselessness of it. Achievements need to be worth a damn, maybe (like in some games) unlocking minor new content, like weapons or attachments or, better yet, experience. Maybe they could give you a new map or something bigger for getting them all? I don't know, just my thinking.
I have given the idea of trophy being used for something a bit of thought; what if whenever you got all the achievements for a game you got half off any dlc for that game. In an age when pretty much every game gets dlc that wpuld be a real incentive to platinum your favorite games
 

Something Amyss

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Kitsuna10060 said:
-.- if you need a cheat device to get an achievement, you don't deserve it.
I don't think that was the point. I think the barring of cheat devices for personal use and decline of in-game cheats is more the issue. The former I don't care about and the latter can be done with optional achievement disables like GTA did.

Honestly, one of the things I love most about Saints Row 2 is doing all the absurdly difficult minigames to unlock the absurdly awesome cheats that allow you to do absurdly awesome things.

I love nlocks and in-game cheats and I want more, but that's independent of the Achievement issues, especially if you can do lock outs and similar.
 

Epona

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binnsyboy said:
Well, it wouldn't be that difficult to have something with cheatcodes, but if any are active, then you don't get achievements. Therefor they don't subtract anything from the game, and anyone claiming the alerts snap them out of their immersion aren't aware of the option to disable alerts. As for them being worthless, they're about as worthless as other aspects of the games. That's the key word there, "game". Beyond their artistic value, they aren't really worth anything.

It's just something that gives you something more to do in your games, which isn't a bad thing. Nobody's forcing you to chase them up, and I know plenty of people who love them.
Well, achievements are a glorified High Score table. I never cared about High Score and I still don't.
 
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Crono1973 said:
I think they are worthless but even worse, they are used as justification to take away player freedoms like cheat devices and/or offline play.

What say you?
1. "Achievements are worthless"...This one always kinda cracks me up. What exactly are you expecting to gain from playing a game without achievements? It's not like you beat a game and someone hands you a goddamn paycheck. You get achievements for the same reason you play games at all...FUN.

2. "They take away cheats"...It's easy to have cheat modes that disable achievements, games have been doing it for years. And if you don't care about achievements, that shouldn't be a problem.

3. "They take away offline play"....Um....How?

I think anyone who has a problem with achievements is provably (see above) talking out of their ass.
 

lacktheknack

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Crono1973 said:
lacktheknack said:
Crono1973 said:
lacktheknack said:
If they're worthless, they can't be used as justification for anything... you can still cheat if the game allows it, and the fall of offline play has pretty much nothing to do with achievements.

You can't have it both ways.
They are worthless to me and achievements are used as justification to not allow EXTERNAL cheat devices or programs. Look at the trainer controversy with Starcraft 2 or the fact there there are no cheat devices on current consoles.
Correlation =/= causation. If you're looking for things to blame the lack of external cheat devices, then blame A. online multiplayer, and/or B. increased hardware complexity.

Achievements are not insidious.
When you use the built in cheat codes for a game, say Half-Life 2 or Starcraft 2, doesn't that disable Achievements? Makes sense but that is also why external cheat devices and trainers aren't allowed anymore (did you even look up the Starcraft 2 controversy). There is correlation.
I can't find anything on it. What a big controversy!

All I can find is some news stories on massive online cheating scandals and Blizzard saying they will permaban online cheaters. I see no correlation.

I'm assuming the "massive controversy" (that I can't find anything about) consisted of people getting their stats wiped or something like that because they got achievements they didn't earn... is there a problem with that?
 

Epona

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Zachary Amaranth said:
Kitsuna10060 said:
-.- if you need a cheat device to get an achievement, you don't deserve it.
I don't think that was the point. I think the barring of cheat devices for personal use and decline of in-game cheats is more the issue. The former I don't care about and the latter can be done with optional achievement disables like GTA did.

Honestly, one of the things I love most about Saints Row 2 is doing all the absurdly difficult minigames to unlock the absurdly awesome cheats that allow you to do absurdly awesome things.

I love nlocks and in-game cheats and I want more, but that's independent of the Achievement issues, especially if you can do lock outs and similar.
Yeah, the Lego games are great with the unlockable cheat codes. I can't speak for Saints Row 2 though, is it similar to the Lego unlockables?
 

Epona

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lacktheknack said:
Crono1973 said:
lacktheknack said:
Crono1973 said:
lacktheknack said:
If they're worthless, they can't be used as justification for anything... you can still cheat if the game allows it, and the fall of offline play has pretty much nothing to do with achievements.

You can't have it both ways.
They are worthless to me and achievements are used as justification to not allow EXTERNAL cheat devices or programs. Look at the trainer controversy with Starcraft 2 or the fact there there are no cheat devices on current consoles.
Correlation =/= causation. If you're looking for things to blame the lack of external cheat devices, then blame A. online multiplayer, and/or B. increased hardware complexity.

Achievements are not insidious.
When you use the built in cheat codes for a game, say Half-Life 2 or Starcraft 2, doesn't that disable Achievements? Makes sense but that is also why external cheat devices and trainers aren't allowed anymore (did you even look up the Starcraft 2 controversy). There is correlation.
I can't find anything on it. What a big controversy!

All I can find is some news stories on massive online cheating scandals and Blizzard saying they will permaban online cheaters. I see no correlation.

I'm assuming the "massive controversy" (that I can't find anything about) consisted of people getting their stats wiped or something like that because they got achievements they didn't earn... is there a problem with that?
Here's a link:

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/10/13/blizzard-use-starcraft-2-trainers-at-your-own-risk/
 

CharlesBronson

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Why not reward gamers for their loyalty and dedication? I will use xbox for my example as I am the most familiar with it. Let gamers "cash in" their gamer scores for microsoft points. The exchange rate can be ridiculously lopsided in microsofts favor, but it would just be a nice gesture and a reward to players who either achievement hunt, or buy a lot of games.

it may be exploited, like everything does, but the sums would be small enough to not matter too much and still have the effect of players feeling they are appreciated by the companies they pledge allegiance to.

Feel free to steal this idea microsoft...
 

Kyogissun

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Why I Don't Care If Achievements Go Away:

Because then people won't flaunt their e-peen about it and act like they're better than someone else... I'm not talking about casual gloating, I'm talking about like full fledged harassment, people in multiplayer lobbies or in parties who look down on others just because their gamerscore isn't very high.

Why I 'DO' care if achievements go away:

Because I like being able to track what I did in a game in the past and how far I got or what special tasks I completed. Achievements, for me, are just confirmations that I did something and that I can back it up.

So to be honest, I'd like to keep them around, because I like keeping track of my gaming accomplishments like that.
 

lacktheknack

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Crono1973 said:
lacktheknack said:
Crono1973 said:
lacktheknack said:
Crono1973 said:
lacktheknack said:
If they're worthless, they can't be used as justification for anything... you can still cheat if the game allows it, and the fall of offline play has pretty much nothing to do with achievements.

You can't have it both ways.
They are worthless to me and achievements are used as justification to not allow EXTERNAL cheat devices or programs. Look at the trainer controversy with Starcraft 2 or the fact there there are no cheat devices on current consoles.
Correlation =/= causation. If you're looking for things to blame the lack of external cheat devices, then blame A. online multiplayer, and/or B. increased hardware complexity.

Achievements are not insidious.
When you use the built in cheat codes for a game, say Half-Life 2 or Starcraft 2, doesn't that disable Achievements? Makes sense but that is also why external cheat devices and trainers aren't allowed anymore (did you even look up the Starcraft 2 controversy). There is correlation.
I can't find anything on it. What a big controversy!

All I can find is some news stories on massive online cheating scandals and Blizzard saying they will permaban online cheaters. I see no correlation.

I'm assuming the "massive controversy" (that I can't find anything about) consisted of people getting their stats wiped or something like that because they got achievements they didn't earn... is there a problem with that?
Here's a link:

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/10/13/blizzard-use-starcraft-2-trainers-at-your-own-risk/
Two week suspension for fudging your profile in a game that tries to match equivalent players? Still not seeing a problem.
 

Epona

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Frozen Donkey Wheel2 said:
Crono1973 said:
I think they are worthless but even worse, they are used as justification to take away player freedoms like cheat devices and/or offline play.

What say you?
1. "Achievements are worthless"...This one always kinda cracks me up. What exactly are you expecting to gain from playing a game without achievements? It's not like you beat a game and someone hands you a goddamn paycheck. You get achievements for the same reason you play games at all...FUN.

2. "They take away cheats"...It's easy to have cheat modes that disable achievements, games have been doing it for years. And if you don't care about achievements, that shouldn't be a problem.

3. "They take away offline play"....Um....How?

I think anyone who has a problem with achievements is provably (see above) talking out of their ass.
1) They are worthless but they take away freedoms like external cheat devices. So the trade off is bad.

2) I am talking about external cheats and not all games offer cheats

3) Starcraft 2...No achievements while offline. http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/news/12614-no-achievements-while-offline
 

Something Amyss

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Crono1973 said:
Yeah, the Lego games are great with the unlockable cheat codes. I can't speak for Saints Row 2 though, is it similar to the Lego unlockables?
I forgot about the Lego games. Those are cool, too.

SR ones are mostly "unlimited ammo," "No falling damage," "free car delivery," etc. It's thematically appropriate. Then again, you can totally blow yourself up or light yourself on fire with the right stuff.

The zany stuff from Lego Star Wars is cooler, but a similar idea.
 

Epona

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lacktheknack said:
Crono1973 said:
lacktheknack said:
Crono1973 said:
lacktheknack said:
Crono1973 said:
lacktheknack said:
If they're worthless, they can't be used as justification for anything... you can still cheat if the game allows it, and the fall of offline play has pretty much nothing to do with achievements.

You can't have it both ways.
They are worthless to me and achievements are used as justification to not allow EXTERNAL cheat devices or programs. Look at the trainer controversy with Starcraft 2 or the fact there there are no cheat devices on current consoles.
Correlation =/= causation. If you're looking for things to blame the lack of external cheat devices, then blame A. online multiplayer, and/or B. increased hardware complexity.

Achievements are not insidious.
When you use the built in cheat codes for a game, say Half-Life 2 or Starcraft 2, doesn't that disable Achievements? Makes sense but that is also why external cheat devices and trainers aren't allowed anymore (did you even look up the Starcraft 2 controversy). There is correlation.
I can't find anything on it. What a big controversy!

All I can find is some news stories on massive online cheating scandals and Blizzard saying they will permaban online cheaters. I see no correlation.

I'm assuming the "massive controversy" (that I can't find anything about) consisted of people getting their stats wiped or something like that because they got achievements they didn't earn... is there a problem with that?

Here's a link:

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/10/13/blizzard-use-starcraft-2-trainers-at-your-own-risk/
Two week suspension for fudging your profile in a game that tries to match equivalent players? Still not seeing a problem.
Punished for using an external cheat device/software. That's my point. You may not see a problem with it but the point is that achievements are the reason these trainers aren't allowed.

Quote for the article:

The idea is that even though these trainers are being used in single player and against AI opponents, the effects of earning achievements alters the "prestige" of a player's online persona, a supposed Blizzard rep responded via an alleged email.
 
Aug 25, 2009
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Any game which has mandatory online achievements can fall into a ditch and die. Otherwise I quite like achievements. For one thing it gives me a goal to reach after I've completed the story. It also sometimes makes me try things I wouldn't normally, like depending on biotics in Mass Effect, and I find that I actually really enjoy the new style of play.

A good example for me is Stranglehold. The first few times I played it I used very simple moves and not as much bullet time. Then I tried to get the 50 point combo achievement and enjoyed the new style so much that now it's how I always play the game.