Achievements, I hope they go away next generation

funguy2121

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Oct 20, 2009
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Crono1973 said:
I think they are worthless but even worse, they are used as justification to take away player freedoms like cheat devices and/or offline play.

What say you?
Well, I also think that "cheat devices" are worthless. Playing a game without challenge is only ever fun for me for like 5 minutes. Even playing GTA just to see how much I can get away with before the military shows up and then how long I can last is...well, read that sentence again, it's a helluvah fun challenge. Just randomly running over hookers and shooting pedestrians runs out of fun after a while, and cheating on a boss carries zero sense of accomplishment.

But yeah, away with the trophies. They are all lame, most especially the ones awarded during cut scenes. You can literally make a sandwhich, or get drunk and masturbate, and return to your playstation to find that you've been rewarded. Great hand job! You came really hard! Here's a "trophy!"

I fail to see how they take away from offline play, though. Developers are just putting too much stock into online play. They are as myopic as any industry that is, forgive the quaint southern witticism, outgrowing their britches. They don't see the bigger picture, the natural pendelum swing. At some point in the very near future more gamers will demand that they be able to play with their real friends in their living rooms so they can slug them when they camp and talk shit when they blow them away.

True story. Back when I only had a Wii, I purchased Medal of Honor: Heroes 2, because it was the only somewhat-acclaimed shooter for the Wii and it supposedly had great multiplayer. There was even the 4-wiimote logo on the back of the box. After I spent about a half an hour trying to figure out how to do split screen local, I called EA. A very nice but not terribly intelligent woman apologized and explained that it was a "typo." She offered to sign me up for an EA service that provides marginal discounts and lets me know about product releases on a schedule that I'm sure would impress anyone who hasn't heard of the internet. No refund was offered. I asked. They couldn't offer me a refund. I hung up.

What were we talking about? Oh yeah, Battlestar Galactica! Love that show!
 

Reishadowen

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Mar 18, 2011
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Crono1973 said:
I think they are worthless but even worse, they are used as justification to take away player freedoms like cheat devices and/or offline play.

What say you?
Well, in Mass Effect, you get certain bonuses for new characters for getting achievements, so there's something they give. Besides, I love achievements. My favorite example of why is say, when you're playing a game, and you decide "screw the main mission, Imma go over here and blow up some random stuff for the hell of it" then all of a sudden, the screen pops up "Armageddon it!"
"Blow up five things in a tank"
"You got imaginary points!"

You feel all like, "SWEET!" It's like getting rewarded, for screwing around and having some fun. I almost live for the sound of that little "Ka-ding!" sound while playing, because it means I just did something cool, it's like finding secrets and stuff! (Either that or the back of my battery case flipped open again. Damn controller.)

Second, take away player freedoms? What the hell are you talking about? I can play my Xbox360 just fine offline. Sure some games like "Castlvania: Harmony of Despair" bug me "You must be logged in in order to earn achievements" after every fricken time I finish a stage, and it's a tiny bit annoying, but it's never been anything close to a game breaker for me.

Seriously, did an XBOX achievement kill your parents or something?


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| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\\ _//. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
|. **Achievement unlocked: BATMAAAAAN!!** .|
|. . . . . . . . . . . . . . *50 Points* . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
|. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
|. . . . . Survived the brutal killing of your . . . . . . |
|. . . . . family at the hands of an online . . . . . . .|
|. . . . . achievement... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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EDIT:
funguy2121 said:
But yeah, away with the trophies. They are all lame, most especially the ones awarded during cut scenes. You can literally make a sandwhich, or get drunk and masturbate, and return to your playstation to find that you've been rewarded. Great hand job! You came really hard! Here's a "trophy!"
XD Awesome. I laughed so hard.

Seriously though, I do agree. Achievements that reward you for doing exactly what your supposed to do normally anyways like completing a level, should be done away with. Well, except for maybe beating the game, or for clearing out one of those "Legendarily notorious levels" that make gamers want to pull their hair out, even on normal mode. But certainly kill tutorial completion achievements...
 

babinro

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Crimson_Dragoon said:
A) They're way too popular, so no, they won't go away.

B) They can provide some extra challenges or goals to a game. Sometimes, they can be fun to go after.

C) If you don't like them, they're easy to ignore. Heck, the 360 has a setting that let's you turn off the achievement notifications.
Exactly. Achievements only serve to provide positive experiences and increased replay value in games. They act as a personal reminder of what you've yet to accomplish should you choose to revisit a game months or years down the road. For this reason, I do feel the player should have the option to enable achievements when utilizing cheats and the like.

Lastly, they take almost no implementation time when compared to other processes in the game. The removal of achievements would not provide enough significant resources to really improve a game in other areas. As such there is absolutely no reason to do away with achievements in future gaming generations.
 

dimensional

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Jun 13, 2011
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Well I really dont like achievements and it is a prominent factor in why I buy less games for the 360 now than a few years ago (other factor is online gaming I only play online maybe 50 hours a year tops so dont get much bang for my buck).

Yeah let me explain (also cue the small violins) well back in the SNES era through to about 1996 (or so) I used to play games obsessively in that I would try to 100% everything and collect everything in the games I had even the ones I didnt like and as such I ended up hating most of my games but couldnt stop playing an obsession if you like.

Thankfully I was aware of the problem and one day (literally) I just said f**k this and started playing games for fun again not bothering what I missed if I wasnt enjoying it or I ended up shouting obscenities at the screen it got turned off and I felt a hell of a lot better.

Now onto my point unfortunately achievements are stirring this part of me I thought I had abandoned all those years ago and I do not like it one bit people say well just ignore them well I try but the fact is they are there and even if I turn them off I can see other people with them its like the games tempting me every time I switch it on giving me a few easy ones to try and draw me back into that obsessive hell I escaped from and I cant even delete them its permanently in my face.

Every time I play on the 360 they are on my mind while I thankfully have enough control to walk away from stupid ones small ones get through its like the game saying go on just do this small thing I know you normally wouldnt but go on ill give you a shiny and I usually do then feel a small flicker of satisfaction before it vanishes leaving me with a slightly larger feeling of self disgust.

They are not so bad as to make me stop getting a game I really want but they have certainly curbed me on getting games I am unsure on (will it be worth that mild mental anguish) thanfully for some reason trophys very rarely elicit the same reaction in me (good for me but maybe showing a failure on sonys part to copy the achievement system) while the wii and last gen is still all good.

ok going to stop with the melodrama kak now just wanted people to know they do have real downsides (if only for a minority) so yeah I wish they would get rid of them as well its very unlikely to happen though they have an addicting quality and are a great control feature even if in the long term I think they are doing more harm than good (to gamers and game creators).

Apologies for crappy grammar.
 

SpaceBat

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Jul 9, 2011
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I don't pay any attention to my gamerscore, turned off the achievement notification as well so I don't get that annoying pop-up any longer and don't give the slightest shit as to how or why other people play their games, which is why I'm entirely indifferent on the matter. I don't care as long as they don't affect me in any way.
 

Barry93

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I think it adds to the replay value if it's offline achievement. Online achievements can be a bit obnoxious sometimes. They're either get X amount of kills with weapon Y or require you to do something very specific that you have to get lucky to get. I also like keeping track of my accomplishments. I probably would not have bothered with Dead Space 2's hardcore difficulty if it weren't for trophies, and it ended up being a lot of fun and was very satifying when I did beat it, that's the case for a lot fo games.
 

Reishadowen

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Mar 18, 2011
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dimensional said:
Yeah let me explain (also cue the small violins) well back in the SNES era through to about 1996 (or so) I used to play games obsessively in that I would try to 100% everything and collect everything in the games I had even the ones I didnt like and as such I ended up hating most of my games but couldnt stop playing an obsession if you like.

Thankfully I was aware of the problem and one day (literally) I just said f**k this and started playing games for fun again not bothering what I missed if I wasnt enjoying it or I ended up shouting obscenities at the screen it got turned off and I felt a hell of a lot better.

Now onto my point unfortunately achievements are stirring this part of me I thought I had abandoned all those years ago and I do not like it one bit people say well just ignore them well I try but the fact is they are there and even if I turn them off I can see other people with them its like the games tempting me every time I switch it on giving me a few easy ones to try and draw me back into that obsessive hell I escaped from and I cant even delete them its permanently in my face.
Yeah, as much as I love getting achievements and the thrill of accomplishment, even I have my limits. I 'm not about to go try and beat Mass Effect 2 on "Hair pulling Obsessive Insanity mode! It's the ultimate hardcore experience!"
"...dear Xbox, uh...no thanks."

If it takes me more than clearing the game twice to get a certain achievement, I stop to ask myself, "Would I enjoy playing this game through again even I wouldn't be getting any achievements?" If the answer is no, I move on.
 

Trasken

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Mar 30, 2010
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Burn the witch!!!

Also i hate how this generation simply thinks the best way to make good money is making a bigass MP game, remember how good lost planet was and lost planet wasn't?
Remember how good the MP in dead space 2 was? I sure as hell don't never even touched the damn mode!
Bottom line is SP should always come first IMO
 

dickywebster

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Jul 11, 2011
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Depends, if its the fun little challanges ones then i say keep them, but the one u get for playing through the game seem kinda silly to me.
 

Byere

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Kitsuna10060 said:
-.- if you need a cheat device to get an achievement, you don't deserve it.
I think what Crono1973 was getting at was moreso the use of the device to play the game rather than to get an achievement. To that point, I agree. Sometimes I just want to play (or replay) a game and I get stuck or just generally want an advantage early on. This is particularly so in JRPGs where you're expected to grind battles to get certain items drops or enough money to actually be able to win the more difficult battles, etc.
The cheat devices (eg, Datel's Action Replay) could allow you to set the game to give you X experience per battle or max cash when you load the game.
Nowadays, the closest thing they do to that is Powersaves. These are pre-made saves that are uploaded either by people who've hacked the game or played it through, etc. They usually involve starting at a cartain point in the game (usually the very beginning, a New Game+ (usually having completed everything 100% beforehand) or having the best stuff right before the final boss of the game, which makes you lose out on all the story). I find them to be quite useless and too few-and-far-between for being any real use. No customisation. Maybe I wany just max cash or a faster exp rate... one that I can switch off by saving and resetting the console. Not possible with Powersaves.

Also, not to be rude but if I've played something like 40-odd hours into a game and find the difficulty shot up but a few hundred miles (*cough*The Last Remnant*cough*), and then find out that if I want enough money to buy that one weapon that can help me in the later battles I have to start the game from the beginning... it's a complete piss-take.
 

Something Amyss

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PatrickXD said:
What? Aren't most games single player? I thought Deus Ex: HR, all of the JRPG's, Mass Effect, Red Dead Redemption etc were examples of how single player is awesome? I am so confused by what you are saying.
Wow, in a sea of thousands of games, you pick three games plus a niche genre to prove how it's not true.

You also picked one game with multiplayer (RDR), one game that might or might not (I don't give a damn about Deus Ex, no matter how much that makes people whine at me), and one game where people were clamoring for multiplayer to demonstrate?

In an era where games are docked points for lacking multiplayer, where online is slowly becoming a requirement, you're really going to play up tokenism?
 

Last Hugh Alive

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Jul 6, 2011
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What's wrong with achievements? They aren't getting in your way, no one is forcing you to get them. If you like using cheat codes then create a new save file or just don't bother with the achievements if you don't care for them. The whole concept of achievements is kinda underminded if you can cheat to get it.

I like collecting achievements, personally. Not so much to flaunt it, more as a hobby. It gives me something else to do after completing a game, another challenge. I also like to keep track of my games like that.

I just don't really see how you can be so strongly against them. They are there to add replay value and offer additional challenges to devoted players? Don't care for them? Ignore them. Also, I've yet to EVER come across someone online who boasts about their gamescore and looks down on other. In fact, I've seen it the other way around most of the time ("You have 50,000+ gamescore? You must not have a life!").
 

TheDooD

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Dec 23, 2010
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I wonder what did the gamers that like achievements do with there games before they were around. Me I normally like messing around with the games I play I never needed Achievements to point out shit I basically knew in the back of my mind I could do anyway. I like beating a GTA game without using a health cheat, or add challange like playing GTA: SA with the RIOT code on and playing the game from the start. When I played Onimusha I wanted to see if I could only use counter attacks on my enemies and tried not to use healing items. Overall I never liked Achievements because I normally thought outside the box when it came to me playing games. I didn't care if people didn't see it because when I play video games I do it for my own enjoyment not to look good for others. Plus since the points don't equal any kind of money value at the moment they can all just fade away and wouldn't mind a bit
 

Lunar Templar

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Byere said:
Kitsuna10060 said:
-.- if you need a cheat device to get an achievement, you don't deserve it.
I think what Crono1973 was getting at was moreso the use of the device to play the game rather than to get an achievement. To that point, I agree. Sometimes I just want to play (or replay) a game and I get stuck or just generally want an advantage early on. This is particularly so in JRPGs where you're expected to grind battles to get certain items drops or enough money to actually be able to win the more difficult battles, etc.
The cheat devices (eg, Datel's Action Replay) could allow you to set the game to give you X experience per battle or max cash when you load the game.
Nowadays, the closest thing they do to that is Powersaves. These are pre-made saves that are uploaded either by people who've hacked the game or played it through, etc. They usually involve starting at a cartain point in the game (usually the very beginning, a New Game+ (usually having completed everything 100% beforehand) or having the best stuff right before the final boss of the game, which makes you lose out on all the story). I find them to be quite useless and too few-and-far-between for being any real use. No customisation. Maybe I wany just max cash or a faster exp rate... one that I can switch off by saving and resetting the console. Not possible with Powersaves.
-.- I'll over look 'you don't know what your talking about' tone.
I've been gaming since the NES, i know what said devices do, and its not a big loss in my mind that they are gone, its not like games have gotten harder in the last few years, so not like we really need them.
and these 'powersaves' .... yeah .... not even gonna comment for the sake of my 'health meter' -.-

Byere said:
Also, not to be rude but if I've played something like 40-odd hours into a game and find the difficulty shot up but a few hundred miles (*cough*The Last Remnant*cough*), and then find out that if I want enough money to buy that one weapon that can help me in the later battles I have to start the game from the beginning... it's a complete piss-take.
Xenogears did that to me, but the my memory card died, so it was never an issue more then once, and while it sucks, its ether a rare case of it actually getting harder, or you missed some other 'thing' be it a spell or strategy that will handle it

but then, with my AR i had a strict 'no usage' rule for the first run, so i always just rolled with it :/
sorry but but while i 'get' what he's saying
it sounds nothing less then whining to me
 

FieryTrainwreck

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Achievements exist to provide data to publishers about the way we play games. They aren't meant to increase our enjoyment; they are meant to dictate the direction of future development.

This, incidentally, is fucking terrible. Your average gamer, at this point, hates anything resembling a challenge, can't function without extensive tutorials and hand-holding, and has roughly a 3-4 hour aggregate attention span. That's why all of our games are suddenly 5-6 hours long, insultingly easy, and prone to practically playing themselves.

I'd delete Achievements/Trophies from all of gaming with the push of a button, were I able. Wouldn't hesitate for even a moment.
 

Terminate421

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Jul 21, 2010
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Keep them. They make me hang on to single player games after i beat them. There's a reason i've played Dead Space 5 times (On my 6th) I need all the achievments, that and Its fun)