Advice: After five years of marriage, spouse came out as transgender (FtM).

[Lightknight]

There's always been lively trans discussions here thanks to trans members so I'm hoping to get some life advice on this matter. I want to fully flesh out my experience here in case this could help someone else who wanders along in a similar predicament.

Basically, I married a person who was born the female sex and was presenting as female at the time of our marriage who gave me no indication of being gender-male.

The evening before our five year anniversary last month, he revealed to me that he'd always felt like a man and is now interested in presenting as male. With this also came the revelation that he is also unwilling to bear children (despite us having specifically shopped for health insurance offering reproductive services a month or so before) in addition to a preference to undergo hrt and at least upper surgery at some point if possible with no promises to stop there but with the statement that lower surgery isn't that important while married to me. Now, with all this, he explained that he has always been bisexual and as such this has no impact on his love for me and his desire to remain married. He's just always seen himself as gay for me.

Here are the complications in order of importance to me:

1. I desire having children more than anything else in the world. I mean, I am happily married (I am), well-employed (for the area I live in) with my dream house already in my possession. So there's nothing else really on my to do list before getting old and passing the torch. Under the premise presented to me, surrogacy would be the only option if I wanted children and is several leagues outside of our financial capabilities (it's like $60k-150k even if a kid isn't born). Likewise, I want kids, not just one kid. If just one chance of having a kid this way would financially ruin me for a decade, then a second is out of the question. I could potentially live with one biological child and the rest adopted but it is devastating that my wife (now husband) led me on for years that he wanted children and was OK with it. That just... well, that just breaks my heart. I'd always made that desire crystal clear.

2. I am a straight male. That's every bit my orientation just as transmale is his gender identity. He entirely gets this and understands if that means we aren't compatible. Can I be attracted to him? Especially if he undergoes hrt? I know it's selfish, but it is hurtful to me that my spouse would purposefully make himself unattractive to me in wayd that no one but me and he would see just in hopes that people who aren't me and our friends will treat him differently. But let's say I can continue to be attracted, is it because I cannot bring myself to really see him in the way he wants to be seen and will always perceive him as a female who mutilated their body? That doesn't sound fair to him. Or would it be something that sidesteps orientation in a sense?

I've had male friends that I was very close to. Enough so that my spouse suspected that I might be gay (what's wrong with sitting on a couch in your underwear with another dude who is renting a room in your house while watching adventure time over a beer? ). But I never felt the slightest temptation or inkling to cross the line between male camaraderie into romantic love. That switch just never flipped even when all the conditions were right. So it could be that the more masculine he gets, the less attracted I'd be physically. But how would I even know before it's too late? I just know I wouldn't prefer it. I just know that it would hurt me. But could I see past it eventually?

3. I believe I can be happy with him. That's the reason why this hasn't just been an auto-marriage-ender. There has never been anyone in my life I have been so violently in love with. This is a hard scenario that is emasculating to me in so many ways. It's kinda interesting that in pursuing his gender identity it feels like it's diminishing my own gender identity and orientation. But back in my dating years there was never anyone that ever came close to my spouse. We just get each other and our quirks are similar to the point where they work together. Strangely enough, I think I could live through the other things if I just had children so that I wouldn't get to the end of my life and regret what I'd ultimately consider a divine failure to reproduce on my part. I mean, I don't want my spouse to transition medically, but I would have absolutely remained married had he been burned or disfigured in some other way. It's just extra hurtful that it's being done on purpose. Maybe that on-purpose bit is what makes this feel different.

4. The very fact that I don't want this to happen worries me. How can I be supportive of losing something I love? I've been supportive of the clothes change, the name change, and the hair change. He looks like a man in public now. I can deal with that because at the end of the day when our door closes I've still got the body I married and am attracted to. But I consider that body perfect and anything different would be destroying that. I'm grateful that he doesn't necessarily want to pursue lower surgery but hrt would be a graphic change and the loss of breasts would be significant to me. The side effects alone of HRT are very scary to me. It's the sort of risk we would typically never expose our bodies to (hell, we even check lables on shampoo and lotion for parabens). He already has broad shoulders and a square jaw. He does a good job passing as male and I just don't feel like HRT would be worth it compared to the benefits it would give a FtM who is petite. I would even prefer a mastectomy instead of hrt, but that's totally not my call to make.

Does anyone know people who have gone through my side of the equation? How the hell do I process this sort of thing. How the hell do I not feel betrayed by every step he takes? At least the trans side of the equation is well documented with explanations of how to support them and help them deal with depression. But what things are my right to ask of him? I assume everything is within my right to ask and everything is within his right to refuse. But can I really ask for him to undergo 9 months as a pregnant woman and to never undergo HRT? I feel like an ass for being unable to support all of this, but my needs and wants matter too, right? Just as much as his? This desire to transition was escalated due to recent personal events. He says he likely would have done this eventually anyways but there was some family drama that plunged him into depression and this is one of the only areas he has control over. Don't know if that makes a difference.

 

[Fappy]

Honestly, I think the only thing you can do that's objectively "right" is be understanding. That doesn't necessarily mean to let his desires completely override your own, but rather, find a common ground. Suppressing who he wants to be is an exercise in futility and ultimately unfair to him (which you appear to understand), but if that means he goes down this path and you aren't happy with the results... well, you have your own mental health to consider as well. You want kids, and more importantly, you're not gay. Marriages between two sexually driven people that don't share an attraction typically don't turn out too well. If he expects you to accept who he feels he is inside, then he should show you the same courtesy by either making some kind of concession or setting you free to pursue your desires elsewhere.

I couldn't imagine how I would react in your situation, so it's hard for me to give you much advise beyond that. I will say, however, that ending the marriage (if it comes to that) doesn't necessarily sever the bond you share.

 

[ThatOtherGirl]

I wont pretend I understand completely, but I have experienced this from the other side. I was married for nearly 5 years when I came out (I am MtF). We even have a daughter. So you know, our marriage is going strong.

I wrote in response to your other comment in the other thread, but there are a few more things I want to say based on what you said here.

The first thing to understand is that you are not bad for having difficulties with this. When a friend comes out it can be rough but all you need to do is be supportive. This is a completely different situation. You have a strong stake in the gender and body of your spouse. This isn't just a matter of tolerance and acceptance, this is your life that just got turned upside down.

I don't have time for more at the moment, but I will come back in when I can.

This is the part in response to your post in the other thread:

It's a rough situation. The hardest part was the first couple months, then everything calms down, you adjust to the new normal, and then you can think about this rationally and decide what happens next. Try to get past the first few months with your marriage intact and then it will be easier to see the way forward, whatever that may be.

Get some support for both of you. Friends or family you trust enough to not hold back and are at least not trans negative, though trans positive is best. You both need to be able to talk this out, and separately sometimes. Professional help is a great idea, but nothing is a substitute for supportive friends who will be there for you in the moments you need it most. I would recommend an understanding between you and your spouse that these conversations need to be private. You might choose to share them with each other, but that should not be the expectation. You both need to be able to vent freely without the fear that you will offend the other.

He's already chosen a name? That's not a lot of time for you to adjust. I don't know how your spouse feels, but I consider my wife to have a free pass. She can call me whatever she wants (she tries for she, but that can be hard for her.) It is too important to me that she feel comfortable talking to me and that she does not have to guard her speech. If you can come to an understanding that you will do your best and he wont be offended when you slip then that would be good.

Things are going to change. If you are like most people you had a pretty good idea how you wanted the rest of your life to go and how all your major hopes fit into that future. You're going to go through a period of mourning for the life you could have had, there is no way around this. It gets better once you get past that and you can start building up your expectations for the future again.

Try to make sure to do things together. All the old things you used to love doing together, make sure those things happen still. Keep the relationship strong. You will want your relationship to be strong when you start making decisions about how to move forward.

I don't know if any of that helps. It worked for us. If you have any specific questions I would be happy to answer.

 

[an annoyed writer]

Hoboy. Now that is an awkward position to be in.

Honestly I refrained from having any relationships in the past few years because I didn't want to put anyone in the position that you're in right now. I found that it just isn't fair to do that to a partner. Can't change the past though, different people come out at different times in their lives. The best advice I can say is probably what Fappy said: be respectful, be courteous, and make the concessions necessary to pursue your life goals.

Now, another brutal, honest truth, from a transgender person herself: This would be a marriage-ender for me. I'm into women and women only: I have no attraction to men in the slightest, trans or cis. I don't think I'd take it well, and I'm pretty sure a divorce would be quick to follow. I'm still willing to be friends with the ex, but that's not a marriage I can continue. Now, to some that may make me sound like an asshole, or a hypocrite, and maybe I am, but I think that to have a good relationship both people need to be happy, even if the end of that relationship is necessary.

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

Ultimately, you must do what makes you happy. You're putting a lot of thought into your next course of action and you even seem willing to try. If you do try though and it doesn't work out (or even if you don't try), just know it doesn't make you a bad person and as Fappy pointed out, you can still share a strong bond even if you are no longer together.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

This is going to be something that will take much time and consideration before doing anything, even making a decision. I think counseling is important, but not " biased" counseling that caters to one side or the other, but treats both parties equally. It can be very difficult to actually find that since some counseling is so pro trans that it completely ignores their partners needs, and some counseling services are so anti trans it completely ignores the transitioning persons needs.

I think it is important in situations like this for both parties involved to remember they " their" feelings are not all that matters in this relationship and it is easy for either side to become either 1) overly selfish and inconsiderate or 2) overly giving and allow their own feelings to be crammed aside to make their partner happy. There needs to be common ground that in the end both parties are happy with. If in the end, either side is ultimately making themselves miserable for the sake of the relationship, it is probably best to rethink the effects of that long term. It is important that each persons mental and emotional long term health is taken into consideration before any decisions are made. Both people in a relationship should consider one another, since the decisions made do not just involve themselves.

 

[omega 616]

I have zero personal experience with this kind of thing, so talk what I am about to say with a quarry worth salt.

At this moment in human social evolution, I don't think there is a wrong move (well, beating the shit out of your partner is a wrong move but you know what I mean). You just have to treat this relationship as you would or should treat any relationship ... with an open and honest dialogue.

You can't be scared to break up or hurt the other person but you have to reach an understanding of what is going to happen.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

No experience with such a situation but as general advice I'd say consider priorities.

What do you value most? Being with current partner or having your own biological child, for example.

Orientation is a bit less of something to weigh priorities so much as what you can handle.

I dunno, I'd say consider whether you can be in a healthy relationship with them after. And then consider whether the positives of being with them as a couple is worth the negatives when it comes to what you want or whether it's better to lose them as a spouse to pursue the other things you want. Also consider that breaking up doesn't necessarily mean losing them from your life.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Yeah I'm just going to echo what a lot of people have said.

1. This should be moved to the advice subforum, because it's pretty high impact life advice and you want people to take it seriously (and the rules there are pretty strict, no shit-posting allowed).

2. Don't rush into anything, and certainly not on the advice of anyone here. This likely requires vigorous counseling for both of you.

3. Don't beat yourself up about the problems you're having. This is a pretty emotionally challenging situation. If at the end of everything you're unable to stay in the relationship, don't assume it's because of some character failing. Romantic love is not unconditional, and some things cannot be compromised on. Sometimes things end and it's no one's fault.

4. Sorry you're going through this. This can't be fun for anyone involved.

 

[sonofliber]

Wow that was a huge dick move from her\his part, after 5 years of marriage + unknown years of dating, with the knowledge that you wanted kids and arent into men, dro
pping this bomb into you man....

 

[Something Amyss]

This topic has reminded me how much I don't miss the days about worrying about coming out to an intimate partner.

Then again, I've been on the flipside a couple of times. Unfortunately, we're in different boats. I'm pretty ambivalent as to both the gender identity and sex bits my partners have, so it doesn't change anything for me really. But in your case? It sounds like it changes a lot. Including how he's going to be able to operate from here on in.

I believe I can be happy with him.

From the sound of it, at least one of you is going to be profoundly unhappy. I don't know which, but it's going to end up being whoever breaks on your impasse. This is not a general statement, but one specific to the concerns you have voiced.

Make it work if you want, but be mindful that you are already expressing a desire to encroach on his bodily autonomy in multiple ways, and this does not seem like a symptom of a healthy relationship. If you want to make it work, try counselling. Someone with a specific background in trans issues/relationships therein would be best. And yes, don't make rash decisions. But I seriously question the outcome here.

 

[Lightknight]

Thank you for all the responses. I am reading through them all and will try to respond as best I can. I generally stay off the pc for the evening though.

Response to Fappy and ThatOtherGirl below:

Honestly, I think the only thing you can do that's objectively "right" is be understanding. That doesn't necessarily mean to let his desires completely override your own, but rather, find a common ground. Suppressing who he wants to be is an exercise in futility and ultimately unfair to him (which you appear to understand), but if that means he goes down this path and you aren't happy with the results... well, you have your own mental health to consider as well. You want kids, and more importantly, you're not gay. Marriages between two sexually driven people that don't share an attraction typically don't turn out too well. If he expects you to accept who he feels he is inside, then he should show you the same courtesy by either making some kind of concession or setting you free to pursue your desires elsewhere.

He has been nothing but considerate of me. The only error he has committed in this is having kept this from me for half a decade. While that sounds horrible, I understand why he would be afraid of this. He also didn't want to transition back when we got married and thought he wouldn't need to. But this recent stress I mentioned changed things for him. I don't particularly know if it's healthy to make such a drastic change so quickly on that, but he seems happier now and all I've ever wanted was to make my spouse happy.

I couldn't imagine how I would react in your situation, so it's hard for me to give you much advise beyond that. I will say, however, that ending the marriage (if it comes to that) doesn't necessarily sever the bond you share.

We've spoken about this. We are practical (benefit of two dudes I suppose) and just discussed worst case scenarios. Ending the marriage would be a result of romantic compatibility and not a result of lost love. In that scenario, he wouldn't want to stay here long term (having moved here for me) but his career is budding here. So he'd stay here for a couple years before applying to related jobs nearer his hometown. For the entirety of those years I'd expect him to stay in our home with me. We make the same pay so there isn't any kind of financial dependency on one another at least. We do have a home with some equity in it but he doesn't want me to have to sell it. If I ever do, then he certainly deserves half of the equity as far as I'm concerned. It's a weird situation, to have two people who are in love with one another discussing how a divorce would play out. This is something I would always regret, even if it end up being the right decision for both of us.

I wont pretend I understand completely, but I have experienced this from the other side. I was married for nearly 5 years when I came out (I am MtF). We even have a daughter. So you know, our marriage is going strong.

I wrote in response to your other comment in the other thread, but there are a few more things I want to say based on what you said here.

The first thing to understand is that you are not bad for having difficulties with this. When a friend comes out it can be rough but all you need to do is be supportive. This is a completely different situation. You have a strong stake in the gender and body of your spouse. This isn't just a matter of tolerance and acceptance, this is your life that just got turned upside down.

Thank you for your response. I really appreciate having someone who has been on either side of this giving me insight. It's specifically the reason I'm posting here and it helps.

It's a rough situation. The hardest part was the first couple months, then everything calms down, you adjust to the new normal, and then you can think about this rationally and decide what happens next. Try to get past the first few months with your marriage intact and then it will be easier to see the way forward, whatever that may be.

The first week was absolutely mind melting. I couldn't eat or sleep and lost 15 lbs without working out. Things have gotten a lot calmer already but I can certainly stand to have some more calm.

I've simply come to the point where I realized that this person is still the same person he was a moment before he told me of his plans. I mean, it's not like he hasn't always had manly qualities. Now he just has a different name and a different haircut. So this is the same person I have always been in love with. It's just that now he is also planning on drastically altering his body too and added the caveat of no children. So that's what I have to consider now.

Get some support for both of you. Friends or family you trust enough to not hold back and are at least not trans negative, though trans positive is best. You both need to be able to talk this out, and separately sometimes. Professional help is a great idea, but nothing is a substitute for supportive friends who will be there for you in the moments you need it most. I would recommend an understanding between you and your spouse that these conversations need to be private. You might choose to share them with each other, but that should not be the expectation. You both need to be able to vent freely without the fear that you will offend the other.

He has a trans support group to go to and a psychologist we signed him up for after the stressful event he went through that triggered the need to transition so strongly (not that he hadn't always had this as a want, but it wouldn't have happened right now without the triggering event according to him. I won't get into details but it deals with his parents).

He's already chosen a name? That's not a lot of time for you to adjust. I don't know how your spouse feels, but I consider my wife to have a free pass. She can call me whatever she wants (she tries for she, but that can be hard for her.) It is too important to me that she feel comfortable talking to me and that she does not have to guard her speech. If you can come to an understanding that you will do your best and he wont be offended when you slip then that would be good.

Yeah, he'd apparently been thinking of that name for a long time. Mentioned it a few times when we were thinking about baby names. He doesn't get onto me if I slip up and I've slipped a few times and cussed myself out for it. Frankly, I've just so strongly associated the name with the person who embodies my love that it's hard to make the switch. It's like acknowledging that he is a different person altogether when he really isn't. I was hopeful that his birth name being a gender neutral name would have made this possible but he wanted it to be gender specific. I think it's more important to him that I'm trying.

Things are going to change. If you are like most people you had a pretty good idea how you wanted the rest of your life to go and how all your major hopes fit into that future. You're going to go through a period of mourning for the life you could have had, there is no way around this. It gets better once you get past that and you can start building up your expectations for the future again.

Well... it's a little different when that plan is to have a child, isn't it? You and your spouse had the joy of having a kid first. Her being He doesn't really change any of my other plans. Not if I can still love him. But this kid thing in addition to it? It's crushing me under its weight.

Try to make sure to do things together. All the old things you used to love doing together, make sure those things happen still. Keep the relationship strong. You will want your relationship to be strong when you start making decisions about how to move forward.

We've actually been doing a lot more activities together. Part of the reason for transitioning now is ongoing depression and it hurt to see him wasting away on the couch, just trying to pass the hours doing mindless tablet games. So we've been going shopping for clothes, we saw a play this past weekend with friends, we saw a movie and have renewed our workout routine. I think tonight we'll play some video games together.

I don't know if any of that helps. It worked for us. If you have any specific questions I would be happy to answer.

I really appreciate it. Thank you. This is exactly the kind of perspective I need.

 

[Lightknight]

Wow that was a huge dick move from her\his part, after 5 years of marriage + unknown years of dating, with the knowledge that you wanted kids and arent into men, dro
pping this bomb into you man....

Well, it seems like until the last month or so he was still interested in having kids. I mean, he had me look for a health insurance plan that would be child friendly and select it. We'd been coming up with kids names and all sorts of things. So I think he changed his mind recently at the same time he decided to transition. It was bad that he was deceptive, yes. That's something I'm going to have to work through some other time. But in nearly everything else he has been nothing but honest.

Hoboy. Now that is an awkward position to be in.

Honestly I refrained from having any relationships in the past few years because I didn't want to put anyone in the position that you're in right now. I found that it just isn't fair to do that to a partner. Can't change the past though, different people come out at different times in their lives. The best advice I can say is probably what Fappy said: be respectful, be courteous, and make the concessions necessary to pursue your life goals.

I assume if you were mindful enough to avoid relationships that you would also have told your partner before something like marriage at least?

Now, another brutal, honest truth, from a transgender person herself: This would be a marriage-ender for me. I'm into women and women only: I have no attraction to men in the slightest, trans or cis. I don't think I'd take it well, and I'm pretty sure a divorce would be quick to follow. I'm still willing to be friends with the ex, but that's not a marriage I can continue. Now, to some that may make me sound like an asshole, or a hypocrite, and maybe I am, but I think that to have a good relationship both people need to be happy, even if the end of that relationship is necessary.

I just don't know the boundaries of my own sexuality in this area. I'm not gay but maybe I wouldn't consider being in love with a transman I married when he was she as being gay. That in itself may be offensive like I stated in my original post. My spouse mentioned a transfemale and cisfemale couple he knows who don't consider the relationship to be gay or straight and instead just an undefined sexuality. If I could still love him while not being gay, would that mean that I still see him as just a her that has undergone treatment? If so, wouldn't that perception be hurtful? I don't really perceive the physical body as tethered to gender. To me it has always seemed strange that transpeople have to alter their body to be perceived as physically as specific sex when they are already psychologically the gender. You'd think humans would have come up with a better concept of what it means to be male or female over the years since it's not like transgender issues are anything new. My husband, he always had masculine qualities when he was my wife. To the point that I'd considered that maybe he'd been reassigned at birth and was actually born a male without him having EVER talked to me about that. So it's not like there's not already a major difference between male genders and female genders even if the presentation of sex is different. But that's not really a point, just an area of confusion I have.

Personally, I've literally never devoted any thought to my gender at all. It's just been a scenario of, "Whelp, there's a dick, guess I'm a male". But I've never felt specifically like a man or specifically like a female. Maybe people don't unless there's dysphoria over it?

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

I'm sorry to hear about this. It's a really difficult situation to be put in. I can't say anything directly from experience, but I might as well share my thoughts.

1. If you can't find yourself attracted to him, that may create some problems within the confines of a marriage. While it'll be hard for you to not find him attractive, I think it'd be hard for him as well. It feels good for your partner to want you physically, and knowing that they don't can be a blow to your self esteem, and a source of tension. Not sure how much of an issue this would be between you to, but it's something worth considering.

That being said, it sounds like there's still some attraction there, despite you being straight. Maybe this will change as he transitions, and maybe it won't. There's no reason to rush this decision, and you can see how you feel as things go down the line, and evaluate the situation as they change.

2. You shouldn't see him transitioning as a sort of betrayal, or him not caring about your attraction. No matter how much you care about someone's attraction, for most people their own comfortability comes first. There was one time a girlfriend told me that she'd forgotten why she found me attractive when I had shorter hair and holy shit did that sting. Ignoring the callousness for a moment... I wanted her to find me attractive (for my sake and hers), yet I wasn't willing to change my appearance in a way that I didn't want for myself just to accommodate her tastes. You can find areas with common ground to both of your tastes, but it feels wrong to change your appearance in a way you just don't feel comfortable with. I suspect this is similar to what your spouse feels in regards to his breasts. He wants you to find him attractive, but it just feels wrong to have them when he doesn't want them.

You might find some sort of middle ground that he's comfortable with, and you still find attractive. As well there might be some sort of accommodation that he's comfortable with in private, if not in his regular routine. I've worn dresses before to satisfy a kink, yet I'm not at all into crossdressing.

3. You mention that you have a strong relationship with your husband, and you don't want to lose it. I think that's really good. Still, marriage might not be the right relationship, or at least not a marriage as is typically defined. That being said, you don't really need to fit your relationship into a typical marriage for it to be worthwhile. You really love this person, and enjoy being with them. As long as you both enjoy this relationship, it doesn't matter what exactly the nature is.

Considering an open relationship (if you're not already in one), may also be help resolve some of the difficulties of physical attraction, although this piece of advice is something that I'm giving awfully tentatively. Depending on the type of people you are, it might make things much worse. Particularly for your husband who has just as much reason to be attracted to you as he did before. If it's the sort of thing that would work for you two, however, it might make things easier.

4. What are the reasons for you being so intent on biological children? You said that you'd be okay with adopted children, as long as you could have at least one biological. Is there a reason against not having the biological child first? You could adopt children, then at a later point in your life when you have the financial means look into surrogate birth. There might even be cheaper alternatives down the line. That, or you may find that the difference doesn't mean as much to you as you thought it would.

---

Just one final thing, everything considered, I think you're doing a really good job dealing with this. You're being respectful and considerate of your partner in a situation that's very complicated and difficult. Plenty of people in your situation would feel vindictive and angry, and not agree to support their partner though it.

 

[ThatOtherGirl]

Ok, got more time now, I can more directly address some of the points you made.

Some context about my situation me I think is important: I wont get into details, but religion screwed me up bad when I was young about my personal identity, when I got married I had some serious denial and self hate about being trans going on. When I finally was in a situation I could actually rationally consider the issue it took me 3 years to properly come to terms about it and I spent an entire year determined to just ignore it forever, which was a horrible idea.

I don't know if anything similar applies to your situation, and I know you have probably heard this a hundred times, but you should know dealing with being trans is rarely as simple as just knowing it is the case. Many trans people only come out when they have come to a crisis point and are unable to continue on like they have been.

As for the specific points:

If he isn't willing to get pregnant and biological children are a must for you then I don't know that there is a good way around it.

Our case was lucky, my wife has no problem remaining attracted to me. I have no idea how rare that is, it is possible you are no longer compatible in this way. But that might not matter to you actually.

If you are able to remain attracted then I wouldn't worry about it. No need to over analyze it if it works unless you want to. My wife is like that, she is just as attracted to me now as ever, does that mean she is bi? Does she still think of my as a man deep down? For that matter, are we a gay couple now? Who knows, certainly not us. It doesn't matter greatly to either of us at this point so we just take it as it is. Maybe we will take a closer look at it someday, maybe not.

Your needs are just as important as his needs. But keep in mind that you cannot really understand what it is to be trans and he cannot really understand what it is to be married to someone coming out. You are going to need to work it out together understanding that neither of you is going to be able to fully understand the other.

Just be supportive of each other when you can in the ways you can. Try not to feel guilty for not being 100% there, and realize that it is ok to be hurt. Take little steps toward being more supportive if you can, but don't break yourself over the problem. That wont help either of you. For example, try not to think of transitioning as cosmetic. It isn't about how other people see you, it is about how you see yourself. There is a lot of pain there that has nothing to do with other people. I mean, how other people treat you matters, but that isn't the primary concern. If you can slowly shift your view to thinking of transitioning as something akin to depression treatments (which is far closer to the truth anyway) then it might help.

And remember that support is two way. He needs to be supportive of you as much as you are supportive of him.

I wont pretend I understand completely, but I have experienced this from the other side. I was married for nearly 5 years when I came out (I am MtF). We even have a daughter. So you know, our marriage is going strong.

I wrote in response to your other comment in the other thread, but there are a few more things I want to say based on what you said here.

The first thing to understand is that you are not bad for having difficulties with this. When a friend comes out it can be rough but all you need to do is be supportive. This is a completely different situation. You have a strong stake in the gender and body of your spouse. This isn't just a matter of tolerance and acceptance, this is your life that just got turned upside down.

Thank you for your response. I really appreciate having someone who has been on either side of this giving me insight. It's specifically the reason I'm posting here and it helps.

It's a rough situation. The hardest part was the first couple months, then everything calms down, you adjust to the new normal, and then you can think about this rationally and decide what happens next. Try to get past the first few months with your marriage intact and then it will be easier to see the way forward, whatever that may be.

The first week was absolutely mind melting. I couldn't eat or sleep and lost 15 lbs without working out. Things have gotten a lot calmer already but I can certainly stand to have some more calm.

I've simply come to the point where I realized that this person is still the same person he was a moment before he told me of his plans. I mean, it's not like he hasn't always had manly qualities. Now he just has a different name and a different haircut. So this is the same person I have always been in love with. It's just that now he is also planning on drastically altering his body too and added the caveat of no children. So that's what I have to consider now.

It took over 2 months for my wife to fully come to terms with me coming out, and even then there were difficulties. There are still difficulties now. And I really do think the process was harder on her than on me up to that point. For me there was lots of positive mixed in with the hard stuff. She didn't get nearly as much benefit in the short term, so it was just this sudden massive upheaval of her life.

I have a lot of empathy for anyone dealing with a spouse coming out.

Get some support for both of you. Friends or family you trust enough to not hold back and are at least not trans negative, though trans positive is best. You both need to be able to talk this out, and separately sometimes. Professional help is a great idea, but nothing is a substitute for supportive friends who will be there for you in the moments you need it most. I would recommend an understanding between you and your spouse that these conversations need to be private. You might choose to share them with each other, but that should not be the expectation. You both need to be able to vent freely without the fear that you will offend the other.

He has a trans support group to go to and a psychologist we signed him up for after the stressful event he went through that triggered the need to transition so strongly (not that he hadn't always had this as a want, but it wouldn't have happened right now without the triggering event according to him. I won't get into details but it deals with his parents).

That isn't surprising, like I said usually trans people who never intended to come out only do because they hit a crisis point. For me it was a buildup of stress and depression over years.

It is important for you to have support as well, especially in this most difficult time. Don't neglect your own needs providing for his.

He's already chosen a name? That's not a lot of time for you to adjust. I don't know how your spouse feels, but I consider my wife to have a free pass. She can call me whatever she wants (she tries for she, but that can be hard for her.) It is too important to me that she feel comfortable talking to me and that she does not have to guard her speech. If you can come to an understanding that you will do your best and he wont be offended when you slip then that would be good.

Yeah, he'd apparently been thinking of that name for a long time. Mentioned it a few times when we were thinking about baby names. He doesn't get onto me if I slip up and I've slipped a few times and cussed myself out for it. Frankly, I've just so strongly associated the name with the person who embodies my love that it's hard to make the switch. It's like acknowledging that he is a different person altogether when he really isn't. I was hopeful that his birth name being a gender neutral name would have made this possible but he wanted it to be gender specific. I think it's more important to him that I'm trying.

I am sure he wouldn't want you beating yourself up for slipping up, I certainly wouldn't want my wife to feel bad.

Things are going to change. If you are like most people you had a pretty good idea how you wanted the rest of your life to go and how all your major hopes fit into that future. You're going to go through a period of mourning for the life you could have had, there is no way around this. It gets better once you get past that and you can start building up your expectations for the future again.

Well... it's a little different when that plan is to have a child, isn't it? You and your spouse had the joy of having a kid first. Her being He doesn't really change any of my other plans. Not if I can still love him. But this kid thing in addition to it? It's crushing me under its weight.

Yeah, it is different. Honestly, that is advice we got from counseling, almost word for word. The mindset has worked well for us. I really don't know how applicable it is to your situation.

I don't know if this helps, but what do you think you would have done if your spouse had turned out to be infertile? That is an extremely personal question so I don't expect you to respond, but maybe contextualizing it in that way could help? We had some trouble having children, it seriously looked like children might not be a possibility for us.

Try to make sure to do things together. All the old things you used to love doing together, make sure those things happen still. Keep the relationship strong. You will want your relationship to be strong when you start making decisions about how to move forward.

We've actually been doing a lot more activities together. Part of the reason for transitioning now is ongoing depression and it hurt to see him wasting away on the couch, just trying to pass the hours doing mindless tablet games. So we've been going shopping for clothes, we saw a play this past weekend with friends, we saw a movie and have renewed our workout routine. I think tonight we'll play some video games together.

The same thing happened with us. I was getting more and more depressed and distant over time before I came out. Things turned around drastically afterwards. Honestly we are far better off now in our marriage than before, though I fully admit that is because a variety of circumstances came up in line.

 

[Terminal Blue]

I've known a few people who have been in your position, so while everyone else seems to have covered everything I'll lend my voice to the choir.

1) If wanting to have biological children is so important to you, then you need to seriously consider whether this is a deal breaker or not.

At the same time though, even if your partner was cisgendered and wanted to have biological children, there was always going to be the possibility that it wouldn't be possible with them. It happens sometimes. It seems the real pain here is not that you can't have biological children, but that you feel betrayed that his decision not to do so is a "voluntary" one. The thing is, I'm not so sure it's helpful to look at it like that.. if he genuinely feels like a man, then asking him to bear children could be like asking him to admit he isn't "really" a man at all. That could be a very deep seated thing for him and one he might not be able to consciously control.

2) This.. is the hardest one.

I know it is possible. I have a friend who got married a few years ago who was involved in a lesbian relationship which became heterosexual when one partner transitioned, and I know she found it extremely difficult but ultimately managed to sustain attraction to her partner despite not being attracted to many elements of his physical presentation. I'm also in a long term relationship with a woman who is not generally attracted to male-bodied people, so yeah.. it can be done. But I think it depends on your ability to look past the aspects of your spouse's presentation that you aren't attracted to. You don't need to see them as a woman who has mutilated their body, you can simply see them as a body. There are parts of that body you will like, and parts you will not. If the parts you like are more "feminine", that's okay.. cisgendered men sometimes have feminine features too.

At the same time, if it's not happening it's not happening. I'd say you can only know by giving it a chance, but there may come a point when it just doesn't work any more and that's fine. If your sexuality isn't compatible with his gender identity, then you absolutely shouldn't feel that the latter has to trump the former. You don't have the right to say "don't transition" but you do have the right to say "I can't deal with this."

3) As mentioned, even if it doesn't work out you can be friends.

It may be extremely difficult for a time, and you may feel (having lived a fairly typical heterosexual life pattern up to this point) that there needs to be a clear boundary between friends and partners. But that really isn't the case. I was friends with my partner for a long time before we got together, and when we did nothing really changed except we occasionally had sex. You don't have to lose the intimacy which you value in your relationship just because the attraction has gone. You can lose the sex and just keep everything else. Long term, you could find your current spouse ends up being a really strong and important part of your family even if they aren't a parent to your children. That's cool, there's nothing in the rules to say that can't happen. It's entirely up to the two of you and whether you can handle the challenges.

4) In this case, being supportive to a certain extent means supporting yourself. You can't be much good to your spouse if you yourself are struggling, so make sure you have support, if not from professionals then from your family and/or friends. Obviously, yes, you can't force your spouse to conform to your needs, and you shouldn't directly threaten anything or issue ultimatums because that will build up resentment which never goes away. While you need to make it clear that while you will support them to the best of your ability no matter what, you must be honest in stating that you are still figuring out what the extent of your abilities are and that there may come a time when you have to say it isn't working for you. That is reasonable, I think.