Advice for guys who don't know how to approach women.

siomasm

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Been considering making this thread for a while, and I'm waiting for BLR to finish updating so I'll get right down to it. This is going to be a short book, so prepare your orbital sockets. This will not be a catchall for every woman out there, and I am not an expert, but this may get you heading in the right direction.

First off, Confidence:
"Be confident!" they say, and it's true, women do love confidence. But let's face it, you may as well tell someone to "Be rich and famous!" because without knowing how it's bloody useless advice. I'll start with the obvious stuff and move on to the abstract.

Body Language-
Sometimes the most important things you communicate are the things you never speak. Not verbally anyhow, but people take notice quite easily on a subconscious level. To appear confident you must appear relaxed and open, crossed arms or a hunched position indicate a closed/defensive posture which does the exact opposite. Alternatively people who make wide sweeping gestures as they speak or fidget slightly are also at opposite extremes beyond the "Core" of confidence.

A confident speaking is often standing straight, or in a somewhat relaxed slouch. If they gesture while speaking, it is within the range of their chest, no further than elbow length with the arm extended. They will often smile, and make eye contact, though not constant eye contact. Occasionally tilting your head to consider what has been said or making an observation will give you an excuse to take your eyes off someone, which will make them more relaxed than staring them dead in the eyes the entire time.

Alternatively, not looking someone in the eye further indicates a lack of confidence, and furthermore disrespect should they be wandering, though that ties into the next subject, behavior.

Behavior-
So you're talking to this girl with huge breasts and a low cut shirt.
You want to know what's going to impress her more than staring at her ta-tas? Not staring at them. Not even glancing. Despite how society tells them to dress like sluts, most women don't enjoy men leering at them, or at the least tolerate it. By simply maintaining eye contact and never letting it slip below the neckline, you will usually gain quite a bit of respect from a woman (even if they don't understand that what it is they are feeling for you).
They will /notice/ how every other wanker out there is taking mental images for the spank tank, but REMEMBER you are the guy who didn't even glance once.

This is just one part of a sub-section of behavior you must master. Disinterest.
Be friendly, show good eye contact and a smile when you see her, greet her in a friendly manner but don't drop everything the moment you see her to talk or spend all your time talking with her. Be the first one to break off the conversation the first few times, and wait for her to break off the conversation other times after that.
If you're busy with something or talking to someone else, let her wait.
DO NOT be nasty about it and DO NOT purposely waste her time. Just send her an unspoken message that "I appreciate you, but you aren't the center of my attention."

Ultimately no matter how many guys come on to a girl at a party, the one they will almost always end up looking for is the guy who introduced himself and talked with for a bit before excusing himself and going elsewhere.

Ultimately it gets them wondering "Why isn't he constantly trying to get into my pants like these other guys? Where is he going instead of talking to me? Why is he different?" though ultimately she is thinking about you, which is the point.


How to build a relationship-
First and foremost, women are not objects. Do not see them as a goal to be completed. This also means they are not goddesses beyond your reach. They are human and fallible just like anyone else. When you want to build a relationship with a woman, start as a FRIEND!
Don't worry about the friendzone BS, that only happens to guys/girls hanging out with someone genuinely disinterested in them sexually, in which case it was never going to happen.

So as I mentioned, approach them like a friend, like anyone of the same sex you were trying to get to know and hang out with. Discover common interests and discuss them. Even if you don't seem to have much in common, you're in the same physical location on a regular basis so you have SOMETHING in common.

Physical Intimacy and Comfort-
The most natural way to build an intimate relationship is by building comfort with someone. It wont happen immediately, but once you can completely be yourself around this person without judgement (The way friends just talk without caring what people around them think, being as loud or obnoxious as they please) you know you are ready to proceed with trying to push your luck a little bit. First of all, you need to be physical, but not in a lude manner. When you walk, walk close to her.
WHEN you tease her, and you SHOULD tease her and I will get into why later, experiment with being physical in small ways. Such as a harmless poke or gentle nudge. These things build physical intimacy which is essential to things down the road.
Once a woman feels comfortable with you physically, you're pretty much there. But you need to carefully judge what degree she is comfortable with, and work your way up.

A really good way to judge the level of intimate comfort is a back massage. Leaning how to work someone's shoulders and neck like kneading bread can turn women into putty, and can make MASSIVE gains in comfort and physical intimacy if she's willing and enjoys it. Hell I can't count the times I got "things" started by giving a little kiss on the neck while giving a back massage. Its a very easy and effective way to bridge the gap between moderately intimate physicality, and "extremely intimate" physicality.

Mental intimacy and comfort-
This is the hardest and most obscure region, considering it varies so much between people and situations. Ultimately there's a few simple, salient points to consider.
If you can make her laugh, not just a "lol" but a hearty chuckle on a regular basis she will feel more comfortable with you. Furthermore, you need to listen more than you speak, and really acknowledge what she is talking about. Or if you can't be arsed you can literally repeat the last few things she said in the form of a question to keep her talking. People LOVE to talk, and by simply being observant and interested, they can think you are a great conversationalist.
That being said, don't relegate yourself to being someone's verbal punching bag or diary.

Another bit as I mentioned before, you ABSOLUTELY MUST TEASE YOUR CRUSH! I'm not talking about infantile things like rumors or physical things like pushing her around. You must make observations of her insecurities, and poke fun at little things that she is not extremely sensitive about, but rather things you can immediately make her feel better about as well.
If it's something she's sensitive about, she will end up dwelling on it and feeling bad, if it's something you can poke fun at, but also reverse and make her feel better about...it's a very complex process.

It's hard to explain without sounding like an ass, but it's sort of a form of bullying, which is why you have to be extremely careful about her sensitivity. If done right, you remind her to be humble, and that you can recognize her flaws, which makes her worry about how she appears and appeals to you. She WANTS to look good for you, and wants to be a better person when you are around, because you recognize those parts of her that are bad, but ALSO don't hold them against her.

If you never tease her, she will gain an inflated opinion of herself, and not care how she appears or acts towards you, this is why some women love dating assholes, because they feel others don't really recognize them as a whole...at least as far as I can figure.

Well, that's it. Feel free to ask/troll away!
 

mechashiva77

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..Huh, that turned out to be much better than I thought. Except that last part though. It kind of comes off as "here's how you manipulate your girlfriend" more than anything else.
 

Andy Shandy

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Jun 7, 2010
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I'm sorry but there's only guide I go to when it comes to those mystical beings called "women"

http://www.textfiles.com/100/lay-girl.txt

What a fine read it is too.
 

Doclector

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I will read this when I'm sobae rand [pass judement as if I saw suitableto pass such things/ Npot kidney stones.
 

siomasm

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mechashiva77 said:
..Huh, that turned out to be much better than I thought. Except that last part though. It kind of comes off as "here's how you manipulate your girlfriend" more than anything else.
Yeah, there's no way of making it sound particularly good, but the idea is to basically acknowledge each others flaws and make peace with them. Pretending they don't exist or that either of you is immaculate isn't very healthy for a relationship.
 

Cabisco

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My advice is quite simple.

Have arrogance, know that you are the best in the world and it's a service your doing talking to them.

Be an idiot, 'what if she' doesn't matter as you are no longer allowed to think of consequences, thats for losers not people who are the best in the world.

Do that and you will occasionally pull. I wish it wasn't true and the whole 'nice guy' and being 'considerate of others feelings' worked but it doesn't. Sorry.

:)
 

Terminal Blue

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Oh, and you were doing so well! I was all ready to write a gushy message of support here, but I got bad vibes when you started talking about "disinterest" and you went a bit rapey in the last few paragraphs so yeah..

siomasm said:
If you never tease her, she will gain an inflated opinion of herself
Yeah, we call that "self-esteem".

Seriously, if the only way you have to keep someone's interest is to bully them or deliberately lower their self-esteem, you may as well just acknowledge that they're out of your league and that you're basically not good enough. Are you going to acknowledge that? Because you shouldn't, you should pick yourself the fuck up and do better.

If you want your partner to work to please you, give something in return. Show some of that confidence you were talking about and recognize that if you work at it yourself you can make your partner want to work just as hard as you. Trust me, it'll almost certainly work out better for you, because any woman who has dated for more than a couple of years has almost certainly met abusive, controlling guys before.

You should not have to do this. It is not a healthy or equitable way to live, and you can do better. I know you can because most of the advice on this post is really good. But if you can't be honest and still be attractive then news flash, you're not really an attractive person. Maybe you should focus less on learning how to cheat your way into women's pants and more on learning how to be an attractive person.

Sorry, I don't mean to sound harsh. We've had a few too many of these lately and it's getting to me.
 

mechashiva77

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siomasm said:
Yeah, there's no way of making it sound particularly good, but the idea is to basically acknowledge each others flaws and make peace with them. Pretending they don't exist or that either of you is immaculate isn't very healthy for a relationship.
Oh, of course. I think people tend to try and ignore a person's flaws because they're afraid they won't find anyone else afterwards. I honestly couldn't imagine how anyone can remain with a person they cannot stand, but hey some people just can't let go.

But, I think "accepting your partner's flaws" is a better message than "bully them so they don't have a high opinion of themselves"
 

Thaluikhain

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Generally speaking, it's good advice not to listen to advice from people on the net.

Especially if the author comes across as really creepy. That means most stuff advising guys how to attract women, of course.

(Notice how it's always "How to get girls to like you", never "How to make yourself into a more likable person"? I would have thought trying to be a better person might be a wiser idea than attacking people's self-esteem)
 

DevilWithaHalo

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Katatori-kun said:
This is basically why I don't bother dating Americans. The whole dating culture here is so wrapped up in feigning disinterest and mentally manipulating each other.
Did you know that a popular piece of advice women receive on how to attract a man is by pretending they aren't interested in them? I'm sure you already did.

Can't help but love the thought process with a lot of this advice. If sometimes wants a very twistedly amusing read; check out "The Rules".
 

lacktheknack

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Without any preconceptions whatsoever, ask yourself how you'd like to be talked to by an interested girl.

Then do that.
 

Lilani

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Oh boy. I hate to be the "girl to correct all the bad guy's mistake" here, but I think you need a bit of help with this advice.

siomasm said:
Been considering making this thread for a while, and I'm waiting for BLR to finish updating so I'll get right down to it. This is going to be a short book, so prepare your orbital sockets. This will not be a catchall for every woman out there, and I am not an expert, but this may get you heading in the right direction.

First off, Confidence:
"Be confident!" they say, and it's true, women do love confidence. But let's face it, you may as well tell someone to "Be rich and famous!" because without knowing how it's bloody useless advice. I'll start with the obvious stuff and move on to the abstract.

Body Language-
Sometimes the most important things you communicate are the things you never speak. Not verbally anyhow, but people take notice quite easily on a subconscious level. To appear confident you must appear relaxed and open, crossed arms or a hunched position indicate a closed/defensive posture which does the exact opposite. Alternatively people who make wide sweeping gestures as they speak or fidget slightly are also at opposite extremes beyond the "Core" of confidence.

A confident speaking is often standing straight, or in a somewhat relaxed slouch. If they gesture while speaking, it is within the range of their chest, no further than elbow length with the arm extended. They will often smile, and make eye contact, though not constant eye contact. Occasionally tilting your head to consider what has been said or making an observation will give you an excuse to take your eyes off someone, which will make them more relaxed than staring them dead in the eyes the entire time.

Alternatively, not looking someone in the eye further indicates a lack of confidence, and furthermore disrespect should they be wandering, though that ties into the next subject, behavior.
I think you're placing way too much emphasis on the details, here. Yes girls are more likely to pick up on body language, but all this stuff about "within the range of their chest, no further than the elbow length with the arm extended" is a bit much. Even the most sensitive girl is not going to be keeping track of exactly how far the arm goes when gesturing, and in practice somebody who tries to follow this advice of yours is going to be too distracted by staying within all these silly parameters.

The main body language guys need to worry about when approaching a woman is to not be threatening or creepy. There's this great article by "Doctor Nerdlove" [http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2011/12/dont-be-a-creeper/all/1/] that explains this much better than I ever could. The gist of it is don't corner her or leave her without a way out when approaching, give a reasonable amount of personal space, touch only when and where appropriate, those sorts of things. But apart from that, just gesture however you normally would. If she's going to be offended or put-off by your gestures going beyond the length of your elbow when the arm is extended, then I don't think she was a good match for you anyway.

Behavior-
So you're talking to this girl with huge breasts and a low cut shirt.
You want to know what's going to impress her more than staring at her ta-tas? Not staring at them. Not even glancing. Despite how society tells them to dress like sluts, most women don't enjoy men leering at them, or at the least tolerate it. By simply maintaining eye contact and never letting it slip below the neckline, you will usually gain quite a bit of respect from a woman (even if they don't understand that what it is they are feeling for you).
They will /notice/ how every other wanker out there is taking mental images for the spank tank, but REMEMBER you are the guy who didn't even glance once.
Well, yeah. Good advice here all around. Some people try to argue "Oh, but by dressing that way she's asking for attention!" Perhaps, but that doesn't make it any less creepy or unattractive to stare like an idiot.

This is just one part of a sub-section of behavior you must master. Disinterest.
Be friendly, show good eye contact and a smile when you see her, greet her in a friendly manner but don't drop everything the moment you see her to talk or spend all your time talking with her. Be the first one to break off the conversation the first few times, and wait for her to break off the conversation other times after that.
If you're busy with something or talking to someone else, let her wait.
DO NOT be nasty about it and DO NOT purposely waste her time. Just send her an unspoken message that "I appreciate you, but you aren't the center of my attention."
Good advice here, that Doctor Nerdlove article goes into this as well. It can be difficult to act casual around the person you like, but just try to strike a good balance. Play it by ear, that's really the only way to do it.

Ultimately no matter how many guys come on to a girl at a party, the one they will almost always end up looking for is the guy who introduced himself and talked with for a bit before excusing himself and going elsewhere.

Ultimately it gets them wondering "Why isn't he constantly trying to get into my pants like these other guys? Where is he going instead of talking to me? Why is he different?" though ultimately she is thinking about you, which is the point.
Eh, and now we've come into a fallacy. The reason girls like guys who don't pay too much attention to them isn't because there's some "mystique" about them. It's because they aren't being creepy. They're given a chance to breathe and form an opinion of you without your presence there all the time. If you hang around too much, then even if there's a chance that she could like you it's totally overridden by your being overbearing.

However, there's just as much chance that she doesn't like you that way, and when you aren't talking to her then she isn't thinking about you. Or, if you don't pay enough attention, then she might not think you're interested and move on to the next guy.

So yes, giving her space is a good thing, but not because it gives you an air of mystery. It's because it gives her some breathing room. Again, the goal is to not be threatening or creepy.

How to build a relationship-
First and foremost, women are not objects. Do not see them as a goal to be completed. This also means they are not goddesses beyond your reach. They are human and fallible just like anyone else. When you want to build a relationship with a woman, start as a FRIEND!
Don't worry about the friendzone BS, that only happens to guys/girls hanging out with someone genuinely disinterested in them sexually, in which case it was never going to happen.

So as I mentioned, approach them like a friend, like anyone of the same sex you were trying to get to know and hang out with. Discover common interests and discuss them. Even if you don't seem to have much in common, you're in the same physical location on a regular basis so you have SOMETHING in common.
Now we're back on track! I firmly believe the best relationships start as friendships. I have a long tirade about the "friend zone" that I won't get into, but in short I agree it's total bullshit.

Physical Intimacy and Comfort-
The most natural way to build an intimate relationship is by building comfort with someone. It wont happen immediately, but once you can completely be yourself around this person without judgement (The way friends just talk without caring what people around them think, being as loud or obnoxious as they please) you know you are ready to proceed with trying to push your luck a little bit. First of all, you need to be physical, but not in a lude manner. When you walk, walk close to her.
WHEN you tease her, and you SHOULD tease her and I will get into why later, experiment with being physical in small ways. Such as a harmless poke or gentle nudge. These things build physical intimacy which is essential to things down the road.
Once a woman feels comfortable with you physically, you're pretty much there. But you need to carefully judge what degree she is comfortable with, and work your way up.

A really good way to judge the level of intimate comfort is a back massage. Leaning how to work someone's shoulders and neck like kneading bread can turn women into putty, and can make MASSIVE gains in comfort and physical intimacy if she's willing and enjoys it. Hell I can't count the times I got "things" started by giving a little kiss on the neck while giving a back massage. Its a very easy and effective way to bridge the gap between moderately intimate physicality, and "extremely intimate" physicality.
I think this is all pretty sound advice. Just don't go into physical affection unless you have a good idea it's welcome. There may be a time during the forming of the relationship where you have to leap without looking. This, however, should not be when that happens. Especially when it's early in the relationship. It's all about how appropriate and welcome the actions are, which you should start to be able to tell as things progress. She should give you plenty of cues along the way.

Mental intimacy and comfort-
This is the hardest and most obscure region, considering it varies so much between people and situations. Ultimately there's a few simple, salient points to consider.
If you can make her laugh, not just a "lol" but a hearty chuckle on a regular basis she will feel more comfortable with you. Furthermore, you need to listen more than you speak, and really acknowledge what she is talking about. Or if you can't be arsed you can literally repeat the last few things she said in the form of a question to keep her talking. People LOVE to talk, and by simply being observant and interested, they can think you are a great conversationalist.
That being said, don't relegate yourself to being someone's verbal punching bag or diary.
I think Katatori touched on something good here--when you do something for the person you love, like try to make them laugh or give them a back rub or whatever, don't do it as some carefully calculated measure to lead into something else. Do it because it's in the moment, and it's because it's something you want to do and that she wants. Yes you have to calculate sometimes early in the relationship, but there is a point where you just have to let loose with the way you naturally do things. Because if you aren't yourself when you meet her or getting to know her, then she isn't actually going out with you She's going out with someone else. And you can't keep that act on forever, so eventually she's going to be let down. All that calculation and buildup isn't worth anything if she doesn't actually know you or what you naturally do when you aren't plotting your moves like some game of chess.

Another bit as I mentioned before, you ABSOLUTELY MUST TEASE YOUR CRUSH! I'm not talking about infantile things like rumors or physical things like pushing her around. You must make observations of her insecurities, and poke fun at little things that she is not extremely sensitive about, but rather things you can immediately make her feel better about as well.
If it's something she's sensitive about, she will end up dwelling on it and feeling bad, if it's something you can poke fun at, but also reverse and make her feel better about...it's a very complex process.
Eh, I'm not sure about this one. Everybody has their own kind of banter, and it doesn't always have as much teasing as you're suggesting. Yes you have to be comfortable with each other and poke fun at yourselves, but I feel like this isn't something you should put a lot of effort into. It'll just happen. If it's early in the relationship, don't do any more teasing than you are comfortable, and certainly don't try to do something you wouldn't do normally. It'll only end up blowing up in your face. If you initiate the relationship with behavior that isn't normal for you, you're basically lying to her. She thinks she's being asked out by one person, but if she finds out later you're actually someone else, that can end up being a dealbreaker.

It's hard to explain without sounding like an ass, but it's sort of a form of bullying, which is why you have to be extremely careful about her sensitivity. If done right, you remind her to be humble, and that you can recognize her flaws, which makes her worry about how she appears and appeals to you. She WANTS to look good for you, and wants to be a better person when you are around, because you recognize those parts of her that are bad, but ALSO don't hold them against her.
Again, a strong no here. And the comparison to bullying here is quite inappropriate and a bit revolting. DO NOT, under any circumstances, tease a girl in any way or up to a level that you wouldn't normally get to. You'll develop your own banter naturally, especially if you started out as friends. There is no reason to put any emphasis on it or worry about it to this level.

I see what you're trying to get at here, but I think you're going just a bit too far with it. Yes people in relationship recognize both each other's strengths and faults, and both involved being aware that the other knows and is alright with them is very important. However, this part of the relationship manifests differently for every couple, and every couple has different flaws to cope with, so any advice you try to give is going to fall short of the mark. So please, if you're going to make giving relationship advice a habit, don't give this advice ever again--especially the part about bullying. If a guy gets the wrong idea about that, both he and every girl unfortunate enough to encounter him will regret it.

If you never tease her, she will gain an inflated opinion of herself, and not care how she appears or acts towards you, this is why some women love dating assholes, because they feel others don't really recognize them as a whole...at least as far as I can figure.
No. Nononononononono. No. Nooooooooo. Fuck to the no. You've been pretty understanding of women and respectful of their autonomy up to this point, but I'm afraid you may have jumped the line into asshole territory here.

There are very few and specific types of women who place all of their self-worth in what a guy thinks of them. It is a vast minority that comes with a very special set of baggage when they enter into a relationship. All the rest will retain most of their self-worth regardless of what you do or say to them. They might take a bit of pride in what you say, but they certainly won't pop like a balloon if you're gone, and they certainly don't need some little peon like you to "bring her down" to make sure she doesn't fly away in a fit of self-prescribed arrogance. This isn't just terrible advice, it's a horrid and fundamental misunderstanding of not only women but humans in general, and after reading all of the relatively sound advice you previously gave I'm rather astounded you wrote it at all. Even your worst advice before had some grounding in reality. This is just vile.

As for the "women like to date assholes" thing, I'm afraid I'm out of words after that to go much further, so I'll just give you this [http://cheezburger.com/7018067712] and say good night. I didn't enter into this post to get so angry, I actually replied as I read it. I'll give you an 7/10 for your advice before that last part, but a -5/10 including that last bit. Pretty good for the most part, but please. If you have any more questions as to why I hate that last bit so far ask, I will explain it further and try to do it more calmly. But at the very least, take that part out of the OP. I never want to see it or anything like it ever again.
 

Xarathox

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That's... pretty shit advice there OP. Except for the "not staring at her titties" part. That's actually pretty sound.

Captcha: "That's enough". Sure is, captcha.
 

PeterMerkin69

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The truth is that you can't make anyone like you. There are no confidence tricks or techniques that can change someone's opinion of you. They form it almost immediately, unconsciously, and any energy spent on you past that point is on rationalizations of their preconceived notions. It's beyond your control. This is also one of the reasons it's so hard for people to disentangle themselves from abusive relationships. You might still be able to convince them to go out with you through pity, or money, or some other sleight of hand, but they still won't like you; they'll just be using you, they certainly won't respect you, and it will end badly for you. If you're only interested in sex, try an escort; it's cheaper, faster, and you can dictate to them exactly what you want, and actually get it.

1) Women are not special; they're just people. Even your crush. If they're unreceptive, move on. Find someone else.

2) They like you or they don't. It's that simple. If this becomes a pattern, lower your expectations and try again.

3) Try to have something to offer them. Be funny, or attractive, or exciting. This has to be a genuine personality trait. Forcing yourself to fit That Special Someone's ideal isn't going to work. I want to slice your breasts off and mail them to your mother. You're not that good of an actor and you know you're too lazy to keep it up for any significant amount of time. They're going to see through your ruse and dislike you all the more for it. The important thing is to just be yourself but don't let yourself go, either. Your personality will develop with age and you will eventually find someone who appreciates you. It's just a matter of putting in the time and effort. The only
 

funkzillabot

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I was already to complement you about what was written......until I saw that bit at the bottom. DUDE, WHAT THE FUCK?

- "you remind her to be humble."
- "you can recognize her flaws, which makes her worry about how she appears and appeals to you."
- "She WANTS to look good for you, and wants to be a better person when you are around."

Um...I hate to tell you, but guys who do this -- are emotionally ABUSIVE ASSHOLES. My god. You are neither her father or her shrink, and it is NOT UP TO YOU TO PUT HER IN HER PLACE. Making sure she KNOWS how to act -- she's not a child!

"You need to make sure she KNOWS about all her flaws?!" That is NOT for you to say. Unless, of course, you want someone to talk and pick on you about your own flaws. Because that cuts both ways, and will end a brand new relationship with a freaking thud. (You won't have worry about sex.)

Do you KNOW how this line comes off to women? Do you? It says LOUDLY.....
"I am very controlling in a nasty vicious sort of way. I have no interest in getting to know YOU -- the person you are. With your loves and joys. Your own sadness and pain. Your thoughts or feelings. But I will take time out of my life to change you into the person that "I" want you to be....for me. Because that's what's best."

And I have to say......that's pretty damn frightening.

Sir, you seriously, SERIOUSLY need to look "in-ward" for the reasons why you feel you need to do such a thing? Because this is absolute YOUR problem, not your future girlfriend's -- god help her.

I agree with "Lilani", this statement is creepy as hell and I never want to see this written down ever again.