Afghanistan, your views.

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emeraldrafael

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Jul 17, 2010
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teebeeohh said:
SNIPITY SNIP
and what exactly did those guys do? Many, if not most of the people in Guantanamo didn't do shit and basically got locked up for life on suspicion

a few other things:
Afghanistan is NOT in the middle East
Communism is NOT a valid system to run a country but merely a Theory that can never work, the System that was implemented in quite a lot of countries is called Socialism and may in itself even be democratic

on topic: just do it like true abstinence loving christians and pull out, nobody can win in Afghanistan, they would rather kill each other than be forced to live in peace by a foreign aggressor. BTW does in anybody else see the irony in the fact that Russia is going to sell you guys helicopters for Afghanistan?[/quote]

1) never mentioned the words "middle East"
2) doesnt matter, monarchies are not valid either, but that doesnt stop countries like Spain.
2.5) So? Who are you to say what works and what doesnt and what should be implemented and what shouldnt?
3) They did something against america and are prisoners of war who we are detaining for the safety of our country. I'm sorry that you odnt think i country should care of its citizens.

and whats hte irony? Russia is usually on the cutting edge of military technology. America will make something nad sell it to them, tehy'll imporve it and sell it to us, we'll improve it and sell it to them, its a circle and a cycle.
 

Agayek

Ravenous Gormandizer
Oct 23, 2008
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Redlin5 said:
Dudley Do-Right didn't have to endure these:



Monty Python was later sued for using one in their movie. These used to roam free in the north :O
If the BEARs were actually like that, there's no way anyone not Russian is still alive. I know for a fact that Canada doesn't have any Holy Hand Grenades of Antioch.
 

Nexus4

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Jul 13, 2010
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emeraldrafael said:
Su.zaku said:
emeraldrafael said:
Ldude893 said:
Whilst fighting like animals may lead to victory, you will lose the support of the citizens within Afghanistan. Since the Taliban fight using guerilla tactics this creates a strategic situation in their favor because they have the complete support of the citizens. People will join the Taliban, not because they share beliefs, but because they want revenge for indiscriminate attacks. Not to mention that this action will likely be condemned by the entire U.N. and the other Middle Eastern nations. America's allies will withdraw because due to the lack of morality and it's likely to expel the US from the U.N. You lose the support of your allies then supplies and trading ceases with the USA, a boycott due to an annihilation strategy. The USA will likely see its economy crumble and be unable to support an ongoing war, coupled with a newfound hostility from the allies, America will be defeated. This strategy will result in a 'Pyhrric Victory' for the Taliban. So unless you want to see your nation abandoned and defeated, I could not suggest fighting using an attrition-annihilation based strategy.
Haha, you're funny. The economy is already crumbling, and doing so would leave too many countries in debt. Do you really think America will pay for their debts if they're forced out of the UN? Thats.... thats just hilarious.

Besides that, I know that America can never do this. thats why its called an OPINION. Its not like my, your, or anyone else here's word is law. But right now, its the best option that can happen.

besides, give it time. Let the Taliban continue thier actions and we'll see how loose the UN gets.
I never said anything about America paying their debts to other countries. All I said was that trade would stop if their allies turned against them and this would be the final strike against their economy. Also I know that it is your opinion, this is simply my opinion, I am not law and neither are you. All I did was provide a strategic overview of the consequences of that strategy. Anyway, A good reason that many countries are pulling out, is that we have no real personal stake in it. The Taliban have not attacked us directly unlike yourselves, we have no personal reason to fight and only do so because it is the 'right' thing to do. In the wake of recent casualties and the lack of visible end to the war, I don't think the USA can convince us to stay much longer fighting your personal little war.
 

Redlin5_v1legacy

Better Red than Dead
Aug 5, 2009
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Agayek said:
Redlin5 said:
Dudley Do-Right didn't have to endure these:



Monty Python was later sued for using one in their movie. These used to roam free in the north :O
If the BEARs were actually like that, there's no way anyone not Russian is still alive. I know for a fact that Canada doesn't have any Holy Hand Grenades of Antioch.
They were a lot tamer than their medieval ancestors. They bred very fast and that diluted their power. They were still formidable though. Monty Python gave their specimen steroids to be historically accurate.
 

RatRace123

Elite Member
Dec 1, 2009
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I say no, our soldiers have done a good job securing some stability in some regions, but it's a battle that's too large for us to win. When we leave the police and military forces of the middle east will have to stand by themselves, and no matter what we do it's all up to the country to sort itself out.

I think we should leave and let that happen on its own. Besides, having the bulk of our military forces back home would be better for our own defense.

Oh yeah, I'm speaking as an American (if you couldn't tell)
 

Mcface

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Aug 30, 2009
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first the rules of engagement need to change, it's too hard for our boys to confidently attack a target these days. Hell, for the apaches to get the green light to kill a target carrying a full combat load he has to go through several channels of command, none of whom can see what the situation is.
 

Mcface

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Ruffythepirate said:
First off, I don't actually have any statistics on what has happened in Afghanistan (schools built contra children killed and so forth). But after seeing Armadillo (a basically uncensored documentary right in the action), I don't really think anything is going to work. Getting out as soon as possible seems like the best solution.
Where can i watch that doc?
Searched everywhere for it after I heard about it, no dice. also, English subs?
 

maturin

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Jul 20, 2010
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Mcface said:
first the rules of engagement need to change, it's too hard for our boys to confidently attack a target these days. Hell, for the apaches to get the green light to kill a target carrying a full combat load he has to go through several channels of command, none of whom can see what the situation is.
Are you paying any attention at all? Body counts aren't our problem. We don't have any trouble winning battles. Nobody cares about the results of battles.
 

teebeeohh

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Jun 17, 2009
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[/quote]
emeraldrafael said:
teebeeohh said:
SNIPITY SNIP
1) never mentioned the words "middle East"
2) doesnt matter, monarchies are not valid either, but that doesnt stop countries like Spain.
2.5) So? Who are you to say what works and what doesnt and what should be implemented and what shouldnt?
3) They did something against america and are prisoners of war who we are detaining for the safety of our country. I'm sorry that you odnt think i country should care of its citizens.

and whats hte irony? Russia is usually on the cutting edge of military technology. America will make something nad sell it to them, tehy'll imporve it and sell it to us, we'll improve it and sell it to them, its a circle and a cycle.
the middle east thing was in reference to the initial post
monarchies have worked as systems of government for thousands of years and still do(btw the way spain works has absolutely nothing to do with a monarchy, they just have a king the way other countries have incredible rich people), before you make further comments about communism, socialism and the difference please read up on the subject, Wikipedia will suffice(not passing judgement here, it's just not the same and i had the explain that to way too many people in the last couple of weeks)
I actually read Marx in the original german and have a pretty good idea why communism can't work but of course i do not claim to have eaten from the tree of wisdom, nor do i think i know i working solution for every problem the world has ever faced.

regarding Guantanamo: IF they did commit any any crimes and there is proof of that put them on trial and prosecute them, if you don't have proof just let them go.

the irony is that the soviet union collapsed (among other things) because the were broke. One of the major drains on the soviet economy was the war in Afghanistan and that somebody kept supplying the Mujahedin with rockets to shoot down helicopters(which are kinda expensive), making the war even more costly


Edit: If this was actually about bringing stability and Democracy to the country maybe someone who is not in Bed with Drug Kingpins and Warlords would have been a swell choice
 

US Trooper

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Aug 3, 2009
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What I think is that NATO needs get out of the way at let the US handle it because they keep fucking up; and Dectomax good luck and come home safe
 

archvile93

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Sep 2, 2009
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stinkychops said:
They should start by helping the Pakistan government clear out the terrorists on its side of the border. Force the terrorists to stay in Afghanistan and prevent them gaining knowledge and weapons from that border.

I think its possible to win, but it would take generations. Is it worth it? This is a huge question.

If it were up to me. I would think long and hard about it. Don't have enough time to consider it that deeply at the moment.
We would love that, Pakistan won't let us in.
 

bob1052

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Oct 12, 2010
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Something had to be done after September 11th. The full on invasion (to the Middle East, not Afghanistan specifically) was costly and its arguable if it should have happened. Now that it has happened this whole "pull out by x date" mentality is a horrible way to move on to the future.
 

Tdc2182

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May 21, 2009
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emeraldrafael said:
Tdc2182 said:
emeraldrafael said:
No, We lost Vietnam because johnson was too much a of a pussy to commit. We could end this just the same as we could have ended Vietnam in about 30 days. Just Firebomb and napalm the shit out of both places for a good 3 months, and that war would have been done in a summer's time. Same for this war. Destroy the enemy, and all around it, and you won, for sheer logic that there is no one left to fight.
Wow. "Yeah, let's just nuke the entire country and get it over with. More innocent people die than the enemy, but who cares. We won, didn't we"

Looks good on you.
thanks,m you took the post out of context. Here, this is the rest of the post that you must have "forgotten" :
And ebfore you say thats terrible, remember this. The only countries that use the geneva convention, care about a good image, and dont want to commit a crime against humanity, are the ones like the US, UK, and other developed countries. You dont see the Taliban obeying the Geneva Convention and you didnt see Hitler listening either.
And you actually think the rest of that post makes you look better?

No one else is playing by the rules, so why should we? You do realize that the Taliban represents less than one percent of the Muslim nation. Less than a quarter percent of Afghanistan actually supports them.

So what should we do? Kill all the citizens of their nation, cause they would do the same to us?

Why don't we go to total war with them? Rape the villagers, burn down their little huts? Hell, they'd do the same to us. Let's make an example of them. Let's go round us up some muslims who have little to do with the Taliban, and cut off their heads during halftimes at football games. We can film it too, and put it on the internet. Cause that's what they would do to us

And before you do the whole "taking my words out of context" don't. Because that is exactly what you are implying.
 

C95J

I plan to live forever.
Apr 10, 2010
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EDIT: For some reason all the £ signs are all japanese of some sort... don't know why...

Double EDIT: If anyone does bother to read this please remeber I am in Year 11 this isn't exactly top notch stuff.

hey, what a coincidence! I just recently wrote a small essay/article for English on the subject in question, if you really want to look at it, then click the spoiler box.

With all the different issues in today?s society surrounding the War in Afghanistan, it is usually a hot topic of debate. It has its good points, and of course, its bad points. Mostly depending on which perspective you look at it from. Sometimes these problems can be hard to pick out and analyse, but need to be addressed eventually. I will be looking at some of the Political and Economic factors of the war, how it has left an impact on society in both ways, good and bad.

In the UK alone, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have cost the British taxpayers over £20 billion. Not including soldier?s salaries or the £35 billion annual defence budget. As you can imagine, this has had some disastrous effects on the British Economy. Just the War in Afghanistan alone has cost £11.1 billion up to the present day. With lots of money being constantly poured into the War, it?s no wonder the UK?s economy has had a recent downfall, and is struggling, but slowly recovering. With the UK?s national debt currently standing at over £950 billion, and figures currently showing the debt rising to approximately £1.1 trillion by 2011, it makes you wonder: Is the War is really worth fighting for? Of course there is also a second side to every story, the pro?s of halting the War in Afghanistan are, and always will be unknown so long as the war continues. The overall consequences might not be worth stopping for. With the current terrorist organisation, Al-Qaeda, being an ever growing force, letting them continue to grow without any opposing force could burden us with far worse attacks and destruction that is happening at this present time, which could drive the British economy into an even deeper recession. The phrase ?Every action has consequences? looms over the people who have to make the decisions, and with all the pressure to make the right one, it makes their decision ever harder than it already is.

Obviously, the biggest and worst problems with the War in Afghanistan and indeed all wars in the history of mankind, is the saddening deaths of Allied soldiers, and the effects it brings to their families and friends. As of the 21 August 2010, the death count of British soldiers who were serving in Afghanistan is 332, whilst worldwide casualties currently add up to 2095 deaths. Obviously these soldiers are irreplaceable, and nothing can be done for them now. But could all of this been prevented right back at the source? The September 11 attacks on the World Trade Center building. Long before 9/11, the White House had been debating taking the fight to Al-Qaeda, but by the time they decided it was too late. Maybe, with the correct decisions and security measures, 9/11 could have been prevented, and 2,996 more lives could have been saved. This may not have been enough to prevent the War on Terror, we will never know. But it might have been enough to delay it, and prevent as many deaths as there have been now. As well as this, going back to my previous point about every action having consequences, who knows the future would have had in store for mankind if the attacks had been prevented in the first place. In November 2009 a British poll carried out by the BBC showed that 64% of the public thought that the War is unwinnable, whilst 63% thought that British troops should be pulled out of Afghanistan immediately. Also in June 2007, a poll taken in 47 countries showed that the majority opposed the War in Afghanistan. Although this is the majority of the public, some others would say the war is worth fighting for, with the main reason being to stop the opposing force of the Taliban from gaining control over the country of Afghanistan, an innocent country. And to keep them from becoming a force to big to handle, which would most likely cause more deaths among innocent civilians in many different countries. Troops stationed in Afghanistan have not died in vain though, as they have been doing an excellent job of protecting their respective nations from further terrorist attacks by religious extremists. If troops were to be withdrawn from Afghanistan, then these people would have a lot more freedom, and are willing to kill themselves to rid the world of all people who do not follow the teachings of their religion. They will most likely bring the war to our country, and many other countries, with many more civilian casualties certain. This is one of the reasons why the War in Afghanistan should continue.

In conclusion, there are many pro?s and con?s for the War in Afghanistan, and while I do not approve of the war itself, I consider it less risky to finish what we have already got ourselves into. This whole fiasco may have been prevented in the first place, but decisions made and paths taken have gotten us into this terrible mess we are in at this present time. If we do not continue to fight and neutralise the opposing Taliban forces, who knows what horrible consequences, far worse than what is happening now, might happen. I do not think what is happening is right, but I feel as if we have no other choice right now other than to fight Al-Qaeda to the end.
 

Canid117

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Oct 6, 2009
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emeraldrafael said:
Canid117 said:
emeraldrafael said:
I think if the republican party had had the balls when Bush Sr. was in office, and we went at it more with desert storm, this mess wouldnt be happening at the moment.
Iraq and Afghanistan are not the same country. Please go buy a map.
I own a map. several. Of several different time periods, seperated by several different centuries.

BUt if we had just plugged a bullet into Suddam at the time, we could have concentrated on Afghanistan and probably be doen with this now.
Can I live in your simple world where everything is easy and takes five seconds of thought?
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
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It's a mess.

No good will come of it.

You can either get out now and let it go to shit, or you can prolong the conflict until you've had enough then get out later and let it go to shit.
 

emeraldrafael

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Jul 17, 2010
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Canid117 said:
emeraldrafael said:
Canid117 said:
emeraldrafael said:
I think if the republican party had had the balls when Bush Sr. was in office, and we went at it more with desert storm, this mess wouldnt be happening at the moment.
Iraq and Afghanistan are not the same country. Please go buy a map.
I own a map. several. Of several different time periods, seperated by several different centuries.

BUt if we had just plugged a bullet into Suddam at the time, we could have concentrated on Afghanistan and probably be doen with this now.
Can I live in your simple world where everything is easy and takes five seconds of thought?
Its true. we could have stopped the regime and had somoene US or at least UN neutral and focused on Afghanistan from the start.
 

Canid117

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Oct 6, 2009
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emeraldrafael said:
Canid117 said:
emeraldrafael said:
Canid117 said:
emeraldrafael said:
I think if the republican party had had the balls when Bush Sr. was in office, and we went at it more with desert storm, this mess wouldnt be happening at the moment.
Iraq and Afghanistan are not the same country. Please go buy a map.
I own a map. several. Of several different time periods, seperated by several different centuries.

BUt if we had just plugged a bullet into Suddam at the time, we could have concentrated on Afghanistan and probably be doen with this now.
Can I live in your simple world where everything is easy and takes five seconds of thought?
Its true. we could have stopped the regime and had somoene US or at least UN neutral and focused on Afghanistan from the start.
Yes because a dictators seconds give up immediately after the dictator is dead.