Alyx Vance, supposedly one of the most developed characters in video games, is bullshit

[Normalgamer]

Er...-goes to go google Alyx Vance- Ah, I see. Well until she has E-cup breasts I don't think they're exactly over-sexualizing her.

 

[Joeshie]

but unfortunately didn't read my post carefully enough. I SAID that Yuna also not immune to stereotypes, being the Yamato Nadeshiko. Do you know what that is? It's basically EXACTLY what you mention, stereotypical Japanese women. But here's the big difference: Yuna CHANGES and matures into something MORE than that, as well as displays other qualities. Funny, in X-2, she resembles NOTHING of Yamato Nadeshiko, yet you say she's even worse? She wasn't soft-spoken, she resolved a fucking dispute by pointing a gun at a Ronso's head. Stereotypical Japanese woman my ass.

Alyx is NOT a realistic character. She's a one-dimensional stereotype. If you think undeveloped characters make for realistic ones then you should try and watch a few more movies. Mike's development from a law-abiding citizen to a head of the family is the FUCKING ESSENCE of the Godfather, a movie that's universally acclaimed. Character development is essential to a strong story of believable characters, and Alyx is none of that.

You clearly have no literary knowledge whatsoever. Character development is NOT essential to a strong story of believable characters. A character does not need to change in order to be realistic, interesting, or enjoyable.

I hated Yuna in X-2 because she became even more annoying than in X. Worse off, they decided to pair her up with the second most annoying character in X, Rikku. It was an endless of assault of facepalm moments that culminated in me quitting the game forever when we had to throw a concert in the Thunderplains. Yuna may have developed more, but that didn't necessarily make her an enjoyable OR realistic character.

Also, you need to learn to chill the hell down. This isn't serious business here.

 

[Bob_F_It]

I don't think Alyx's role in HL was to be someone to relate to, but rather someone to fill you in one how the world has been going in the past years of Gordan's containment, as well open a few locked doors. She rescues you from the combine beating your ass in, hands you the gravity gun and explains how it's now been used for heavy lifting (giving you an idea of how much people are improvising), explains the stalkers, and so on.

She's not a deadweight (shooting zombies with her pistol) and she's not a powerhouse...

Spoiler: In HL2

(She gets apprehanded)

So what's apealing is that Valve struck a balance with her. I agree that she doesn't develop through the episodes with the exception of upgrading her weapon. It's a pretty standard reaction when...

Spoiler: In Episode 2

she wakes up from getting stabbed by the hunter, or she see Eli get killed right in front of her.

Maybe she'll have changed a bit in Episode 3, but her character has been a platau up until now.

As regards to her being realistic, I mentioned the balance before, but I think it's the frekles that do it. I've realised that everything looks more realistic when there are imperfections.

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

And? I don't play a game for the complex interpersonal relationships, and even when they are nicely handled (I tend to lean towards Bioware for these) they are the icing on the cake, not the cake itself. Just as much fun can be had with a blatantly over-sexualised character, male or female, and you should just leave people to their own opinions about 'realism' in games.

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

Really, Alyx's personality has like, 3 settings: Capable female, Damsel in distress, and compassionate caregiver, all of which are steriotypes that all fit most female sidekicks. The only difference being Alyx isn't hot.

 

[DarkSaber]

I like to ask my friends "if you were to think of one female character that's an accurate portrayal of a human being in a video game, who would it be?"...........

she doesnt even has a personality. DOG has more character than her.

alyx is the only woman in that game. no competition = WIN by default.

The only woman asides from Judith Mossman and the female resistance members.

 

[GamingAwesome1]

She made me occaisionally laugh, which is more than most female game characters do, so she wins in my book.

 

[Mikkaddo]

Valve did something that ended up being ingenius, but the path they took was a very dangerous one. Think about Alyx carefully, she doesn't wear hardly any clothes, instead she's fully dressed with the entirity of "exposed flesh" being MAYBE some midriff if you look from the right angle while she walks. Other then that the only way to really "oggle" her is her ass when she walks away.

Then you have, as you said it, her one dimensional nature . . . she is indeed the girlfriend experience. And has almost no pull in the storyline even the ones she spends most of the time around you in.

Try that in any other game and you end up with failure . . . even heavily story based games like Legend of Dragoon had to go for women that at least showed almost their entire LEGS to make up for the storylines to the huffing nerds that don't want characters that work story wise but instead just want something "sexy" to stare at.

The reason for this is less about the nerd themselves I think, and more about the way videogames work . . . by nature they are extremes. No videogame that comes out on systems is sucessful with only just the mundane every day life of an average person.

Imagine if Elder Scrolls V was about a peasant in Cyrodill who never fights demons or monsters, never learns magick spells . . . never fights with swords or bows, but instead just goes to the item shop each day selling things, goes to the tavern for meals, and comes home to go to bed. BORING. No one will buy it . . . the visual appeal is easily the same.

No one wants to see something common, tehy want the extreme since the common is so . . . well . . . common . . .

no one therefore realy WANTS to be "friend zoned" even by a digital woman, they want that extreme . . . the kind of women that even strippers would look conservatively dressed next to. Because it's escapism, escaping from the normal, escaping from the grey life sucking normality we suffer through each day.

 

[President Moocow]

You clearly have no literary knowledge whatsoever. Character development is NOT essential to a strong story of believable characters. A character does not need to change in order to be realistic, interesting, or enjoyable.

Ok, name a movie or book that has a strong story of believable characters in which the characters are EXACTLY the same from start to finish and every single event doesn't change them and no morals are learned. See, if you actually knew a goddamn thing about literature, you'd know that it's not as straightforward as that, many things can happen and good authors can make things work. If you see her as a believable and realistic then you've got a pretty bad perception of reality.

I hated Yuna in X-2 because she became even more annoying than in X.

Oh I see, so this really has nothing to do with a lack of development, you just dislike her character. Well there's personal bias for you. (Oh and no, I don't hate ALyx, I actually enjoyed her company in the game but saw no value in it)

Worse off, they decided to pair her up with the second most annoying character in X, Rikku. It was an endless of assault of facepalm moments that culminated in me quitting the game forever when we had to throw a concert in the Thunderplains. Yuna may have developed more, but that didn't necessarily make her an enjoyable OR realistic character.

Also, you need to learn to chill the hell down. This isn't serious business here.

I'M VERY CALM RIGHT NOW. Haha, all I do is press shift and it makes people think that I'm shouting. One annoyance of the internet is that you can't see people's MOTHERFUCKING tone and their MOTHERFUCKING body language. You're in no position to evaluate my emotional state since frankly since you're only seeing my WORDS. I could be calm, irritated, raging or serene and you'd never know.

but unfortunately didn't read my post carefully enough. I SAID that Yuna also not immune to stereotypes

So now we learn this Yuna doesn't cut it either.

You said in your OP that there were more examples of better portrayal of women, in games.
Out with it then. Most here at the escapist don't even play JRPGs, so bring a better example.

Ok, this is why you don't fucking take people out of context, it changes all meaning of what they said. I said she isn't immune to stereotypes HOWEVER (see, this is why you have to keep reading) she is far more developed and has traits other than just a stereotypical japanese woman (whilst Alyx is ONLY a stereotypical "girl next door" with no other traits) and she actually changes and becomes someone who has qualities and has matured (whilst Alyx remains the same from start to finish).

Frankly I'm not here to accommodate the escapist. If you don't play JRPG, that's your choice to isolate an entire series of games, not mine.

Yuna, more realistic than Alyx...

That made me... laugh.

That's a pitiful argument. I EXPLAINED why Yuna is far more realistic than Alyx is, character wise and if you have a fucking reason to disagree then I expect you to fucking SUPPORT YOUR GODDAMN OPINION. NOT just state a fact. It's not even just a bad debating tactic, refusing to acknowledge any point of view is close-minded and pretty fucking rude.

Do like this guy, who at least EXPLAINS his disagreement for Yuna:

Untie that panty knot there, buddy.

It was a joke referring to Yuna's infamously fake and un-human like laughing scene.

That's why the 'laugh' was in italics.

You need to relax, your excessive swearing and flaming makes you look like a crazy person.

Oh right, what am I thinking? I should have seen the joke. It was so obvious that you weren't laughing at the idea that Yuna is more developed than Alyx, you were referencing an infamously shitty laughing scene in the game!

I apologize for mistaking your joke as yet another person dismissing the concept entirely.

Well, I didn't read all of this, because you're probably just trolling, but, in terms of characters in games I've seen, Alyx is great.

Challenging a popular viewpoint is not trolling, it's enlightening. The purpose of this thread is that people look more critically about characters in video and many people here are noticing that, which makes me quite happy. I'm also learning a few interesting things as well.

Fair enough (I just spent time actually reading the OP). I see where you're coming from in that looking at something from all possible angles is a definite eye-opener and can help you to better your knowledge and expand the way you think about things, but a lot of the time it's trolling, especially with an insanely popular game such as Half-Life 2; it's 'cool' or whatever to challenge the norm. Looking at your points, they're pretty much all wrong (in my mind, I'm fine with respecting other peoples' opinions and they're entitled to them). Alyx Vance is a brilliant character, as are basically all of the characters in HL2; you actually care about them, and that's something that's all but gone amiss in modern gaming. There is an immense amount of character development throughout the course of the game, believe me, and Alyx is no exception.

So I'm not allowed to criticize a popular game because otherwise it's trolling? Oh right! Let me guess, a bunch of tools who try to rip on popular stuff and then when people see them trolling they say "well, Yahtzee does it", right? I can see how if that were the case, any attempt to criticize a popular game would end horribly. Well luckily I don't care as much.

Now, 'brilliant' character aside, how exactly does she develop over the course of the story in your opinion?

Oh and @boholiku

Good reply. I like what you said and you're right that making a character model, animate it, make her live and breath is an achievement to behold.

But what you said about FFX. I'm glad you disclaimed that you only played a little bit because you missed so much about her character. First of all, no. The events in the game DON'T reflect on the gameplay. She doesn't get +3 confidence for getting a new aeon. Her relationship with Tidus is important to the story but has no effect on the gameplay (except when she is missing and has to be saved). They aren't intertwined, but that doesn't mean the story wasn't there! In fact intertwining gameplay with the story would have been tedious, considering how developed the story is (and there's no choice system, it's linear).

 

[MiracleOfSound]

Yuna, more realistic than Alyx...

That made me... laugh.

That's a pitiful argument. I EXPLAINED why Yuna is far more realistic than Alyx is, character wise and if you have a fucking reason to disagree then I expect you to fucking SUPPORT YOUR GODDAMN OPINION. NOT just state a fact. It's not even just a bad debating tactic, refusing to acknowledge any point of view is close-minded and pretty fucking rude.

Do like this guy, who at least EXPLAINS his disagreement for Yuna:

Untie that panty knot there, buddy.

It was a joke referring to Yuna's infamously fake and un-human like laughing scene.

That's why the 'laugh' was in italics.

You need to relax, your excessive swearing and flaming makes you look like a crazy person.

Oh right, what am I thinking? I should have seen the joke. It was so obvious that you weren't laughing at the idea that Yuna is more developed than Alyx, you were referencing an infamously shitty laughing scene in the game!

I apologize for mistaking your joke as yet another person dismissing the concept entirely.

It was a fairly obscure joke, in fairness. I thought being a FF fan you'd get it.

You do seem to be getting angry with people though... my advice is not to bother getting worked up over what random people on the internet think.

As for Alyx... she's my favorite female character in a game, barring Reilly.

She's smart, independant and a badass without being an asshole.

(Plus she doesn't get in front of your gunfire... bonus)

 

[Joeshie]

Ok, name a movie or book that has a strong story of believable characters in which the characters are EXACTLY the same from start to finish and every single event doesn't change them and no morals are learned.

I'll give you one that I was just watching, "The Adventures of Robin Hood" with Errol Flynn. Robin Hood in particular since he doesn't really change during the entire movie, but he's still a strong character. One could argue that becoming an "outlaw" changes him, but he still retains the same morals and same personality as he had before.

Or if you REALLY want a static character, how about the Dark Knight? Joker never changes at all, but his character is probably now one of the most iconic villains of all time.

 

[Deleted]

Nerds like Alyx because she's the kind of girl they would have a chance with (even if its slim).

 

[Mr.Black]

Who cares? They're just games guys.

 

[John Stalvern]

"Mary Sue"

Would you mind defining this in your own words? I've seen far too many instances of people misusing the phrase.

 

[boholikeu]

Oh and @boholiku

Good reply. I like what you said and you're right that making a character model, animate it, make her live and breath is an achievement to behold.

But what you said about FFX. I'm glad you disclaimed that you only played a little bit because you missed so much about her character. First of all, no. The events in the game DON'T reflect on the gameplay. She doesn't get +3 confidence for getting a new aeon. Her relationship with Tidus is important to the story but has no effect on the gameplay (except when she is missing and has to be saved). They aren't intertwined, but that doesn't mean the story wasn't there! In fact intertwining gameplay with the story would have been tedious, considering how developed the story is (and there's no choice system, it's linear).

Erm, maybe you're missing my point. I realize that in non-interactive sequences Yuna is very well developed, but my point is that for her to be a really good "video game character" they should have reflected that in gameplay as well. It's also totally possible to do this without turning the game into an open-world choice system like Fallout (heck, HL2 is completely linear, and it still manages to relate nearly all of it's story to gameplay). The developers could have easily mirrored the stages of Yuna's maturation through each of the aeons she gets. Better yet, make her combat style change as well. The same could be done for the relationship.

Anyway, my point is that while Yuna might be a deeper character, Alyx's character did more to advance the medium.

 

[L3m0n_L1m3]

I wasn't very attached to Alyx, all she really did was advance the plot.

"Ah, Gordon! You're out of Ravenholm! Despite the fact that you probably haven't slept, eaten, or gone to the bathroom in at least a day, I need you to drive down the coastline (which is full of antlions, combine, zombies and who knows what else!) to get to a high security jail place to rescue my dad for me!"

 

[Erana]

I like to ask my friends "if you were to think of one female character that's an accurate portrayal of a human being in a video game, who would it be?"

It's no surprise that Alyx Vance is a popular choice but what's odd is that she's no more realistic than over-sexualized game babes, only in a much more subtle way. Now, don't mistake me, super sexy girl in video games are fine, but I find it odd that Alyx Vance is spoken of as if she was living proof that the game industry CAN portray realistic characters when really, she's only living proof that Valve knows how to market the "girl next door" stereotype.

If you don't know what the "girl next door" stereotype is, it's pretty much Alyx Vance. A friendly female friend who's just there for comfort, not intimate relationships, and it's a common fetish amongst American boys (and nerds, as Valve cleverly figured out). Her entire role as a character boils down to pretty much giving the player the "girlfriend experience", which is the emotional equivalent of a porn game. She arouses feelings of care, comfort and compassion. Mimicking the non-sex related qualities often seen in long-term relationships. But that's it. That's her entire character. She's a one-dimensional stereotype, designed by developers to appeal to a certain aspect of the male teenage and adult mind: The desire of someone's comfort and compassion.

Frankly I see Valve as an incredibly ingenious company. They deviated from the typical kind of game babe and sold sexy in a very different (very non-sexual way) and it's worked. People actually talk about Alyx Vance as if she's a real character.

The funny thing is that other game characters are much more realistic portals of human beings. Like Yuna, for example. A shy, uncertain, character who matures over the course of her journey who eventually makes a moral stand. Her entire pilgrimage is a coming-of-age story and a pretty good one, for a video game. She's more similar to a human being than Alyx Vance could ever be. Unfortunately she still can be stereotypical as well, mostly in the form of Yamato Nadeshiko (look it up if you don't know it) but the big difference is that she at least has character development, and even shares a romantic relationship. To me, the famous Suteki da ne underwater kissing scene (fyi, they totally had sex, too) is one of the most artistically beautiful scenes in a video game and I'm very disappointing that such beauty is never really seen in games anymore where the focus is just on selling the sexy (Bayonnetta, for example, which doesn't even try to be subtle), without any romantic themes. FFX is a coming of age story that is akin to both teenage boys and girls and deals with some very interesting themes. Even FFX-2 has some character development where a more confident Yuna seeks out her love. Not as well done as FFX in my opinion but still decent.

Real character development in video games is far too uncommon, and frankly that's a shame. If there were more, maybe Alyx Vance wouldn't be considered realistic. Maybe female characters could show the same kind of development seen in good movies/books. Why do game developers limit themselves to sexy one-dimensional characters when they could craft far more realistic characters?

I must beg to differ.
Why?
Well, have you ever hung out in labs populated largely by attractive, intelligent young women before?
I think they got it surprisingly well.

Your entire argument hinges on the definition of the "girl next door" which is pretty silly, because the entire meaning of that phrase is an honest, more wholesome female who is in close proximity to the assumedly male protagonist.
The girl-next-door thing happens in real life. Hell, if I was around more males, I could fit into the role.
And even in the sense of character development, that's just not how Half-Life 2 rolls. Its all about inserting you into a slice of the world, post-invasion. To try and make it more movie- or book-like would be to mess up the game's pacing and mood.
Well, OK, I guess she isn't that developed, but by no means does that make her steriotypical.

I mean, just give me an example in any scene of the game, and tell me what they could have done with her reaction to make her more realistic.

 

[AgDr_ODST]

Odds are at somepoint in these 4 pages something along these lines has been said, but Im gonna say it anyway:
OP, is right she's not the most developed, But she is developed enough and that fact that among other things she's not some beach blonde heroine with huge boobs(in other words eyecandy), and that in a non subtle way one can tell that she trusts Gordon enough to follow him and cares enough about him for whatever reason that its a big deal when they're reunited. Or maybe its her simplistic or complex nature (which depends on the player) or that she whether we know it or not conforms to some sort of stereotype (that is not limited to whatever type Alyx is) that we may find ourselves becoming attached to or caring about on some level. As for me in Episode Two I felt for atleast an instant genuine concern when she was attacked by the Hunter(followed some anger toward the Hunter) and then at the end when ______ part of me wanted to console her even though I was fully aware that she was only a character and that to do so would be impossible

 

[TsunamiWombat]

No one ever claimed she was well developed. We claimed she had a personality and tits that could not be used as a flotation device.