Am I the only one who notices this?

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DuctTapeJedi

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So, it's 5:45 in the morning here, and I can't sleep. So instead I'll ask you guys about a common trend I've noticed in video games, T.V., and movies.

First example, last night I was replaying Dragon Age, and I met up with some of the desire demons in the mage tower. All of them are female.

Second example, the character Lust from the Full Metal Alchemist series. Also female.

Lastly, the example that most clearly illustrates my point (I swear, I'm getting to it), the movie Se7en. (Spoiler alert for 15 year old movie)


The murder victim representing the din of lust was a female prostitute. Shouldn't it have been the man paying for her services? He was the one that seemed to have been driven by lust. The gluttony victim wasn't the owner of a fast food restaurant, it was a guy who was guilty of the sin of gluttony. The prostitute wasn't in her line of work because she was guilty of lust, she was just trying to scrape together enough money to live. It seems like a better choice for the victim would have been one of her clients, or a porn addict, or some one that had ACTUALLY COMMITTED THE SIN OF LUST.

It seems that any time lust is personified, it's always an attractive female that's demonized. (in Dragon Age, literally)

Anyways, I guess my final question is this:
Are these accurate philosophical representations of one of the seven deadly sins (regardless of whether or not you subscribe to the religious beliefs behind them) or are they just projections of the unconscious guilt and the unreasonable expectations of the male dominated society that created them?

EDIT: Just to clarify, I'm also asking why it is that every other sin is represented by some one or something that's guilty of it, and why lust is the outlier.
EDIT: This post was brought to you by massive sleep deprivation.
 

Swaki

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since writing was only for men for hundreds of years and most men are straight it makes perfect sense that lust would be represented as a beautiful woman, its really very logical.

and the mandatory, no you are not the only one, infact you can find tons of very interesting articles about the subject, i even think cracked did one, so you can be entertained at the same time.
 

NeedAUserName

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Well, video games are generally targeted at men instead of women, therefore desire demons would be female. I can't really speak about the second point as I haven't seen Full Metal Alchemist. And in Se7en the client is as much a victim as the prostitute.
 

Owyn_Merrilin

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DuctTapeJedi said:
Anyways, I guess my final question is this:
Are these accurate philosophical representations of one of the seven deadly sins (regardless of whether or not you subscribe to the religious beliefs behind them) or are they just projections of the unconscious guilt and the unreasonable expectations of the male dominated society that created them?
This is probably the sleep deprivation talking, but I'd say both. The personification of a sin generally has more to do with what entices a person to commit that sin than the state of the sinner him/herself. I think that's one reason you see the object of lust as the personification, rather than the person who actually harbors the feelings of lust. As for the second part, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't worry about sin in general if people didn't feel guilty about it, at least on some level.
 

DuctTapeJedi

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Owyn_Merrilin said:
This is probably the sleep deprivation talking, but I'd say both. The personification of a sin generally has more to do with what entices a person to commit that sin than the state of the sinner him/herself.
Again, though, in the movie Se7en, why wasn't the gluttony victim the owner of a fast food restaurant? Or the greed guy a bookie at a racetrack, or something? It seems really inconsistent. (Also sleep deprivation talking)
 

Jewrean

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Ok so other than the movie, you mentioned an Anime and a video game. Whenever someone from a company wants to include fan service they usually pull on this stereotype. For anything that has a male-dominant audience (such as the first two examples) it makes perfect business sense to match up the sexual moniker to a sexy female.

Btw OP fantastic Avatar. Just finished watching an entire season over again... and

OT: no you are not the only one who notices this, but not many people do. People simply don't notice the stereotype and assume it is normal like a blue sky.
 

Owyn_Merrilin

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DuctTapeJedi said:
Owyn_Merrilin said:
This is probably the sleep deprivation talking, but I'd say both. The personification of a sin generally has more to do with what entices a person to commit that sin than the state of the sinner him/herself.
Again, though, in the movie Se7en, why wasn't the gluttony victim the owner of a fast food restaurant? Or the greed guy a bookie at a racetrack, or something? It seems really inconsistent. (Also sleep deprivation talking)
Not having seen the film in question, I can't really comment on it. Maybe whoever sets up these stereotypes just goes for whatever personification is most salacious, in the hopes that more people will be willing to listen to the message? I'd say that's almost certainly the case in situations where we're looking at an entertainment product, rather than, say, a bas relief on a Gothic cathedral.
 

manic_depressive13

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Hey, that's actually pretty interesting. Lust is always personified as a voloptuous female, when it would be more suitably represented by, I don't know, some creepy old pervert or something. Or a guy whose right hand is far more muscular than his left. I remember questioning the prostitute thing when I watched the film se7en as well, but I didn't think about it too much. I agree with you completely; that's backwards.
 

Jewrean

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manic_depressive13 said:
I remember questioning the prostitute thing when I watched the film se7en as well
I would like to point out that it wasn't a divine will that made the murderer choose the prostitute. Like all humans he is flawed and it makes sense that a male (probably sexually frustrated along with his psychotic moral affliction) would blame a female prostitute for the sin over a man or even himself for this particular sin.
 

Dexiro

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It doesn't make a lot of sense but I'd really rather see lust be represented by some succubus type character rather than a sexually frustrated nerd or something.
 

DuctTapeJedi

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Zeeky_Santos said:
3 points about why this is and then it's /thread

Men are attracted to women. Women can use this to manipulate men (but also vice versa). Classical literature which featured women as lust was written in a male dominant world.

There, put 1, 2 and 3 together and get 6. History is a sexist thing, but it's also where we get our representations of things. All sorts of things too. We get these things from what is already written. Women are purveyors of sexual tension, they use this to manipulate and henceforth women are lust. Simple.
That seems kind of... misogynistic.
 

electric discordian

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Because nothing exemplifies lust like a fifty year old business man with a face like a pit bulls arse! That is why its always a female. Women find the female form attractive, men certainly do even most gay men can see a certain appeal to it.

Possibly because male genitalia looks like a plucked turkey minus the beak. Women cause the Lust so I can understand the killer in Seven killing a prostitute as she embodies the concept of temptation stealing married men away from their wives spreading disease breaking up families.

Also it means you can show boobs with justification and let's face it Knockers sell games!
 

AcacianLeaves

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Its a common theme in religious thought throughout the world that women are the reason for the 'sin' of lust in man. Women must be covered to prevent men from committing the sin of lust, Eve tempted Adam with her 'apple', etc.

This isn't just religious dogma though, its psychological. Men have been proven to be much more visual than women. We desire women based on their looks and how they attract us sexually. Women desire men based on how well they perceive we could protect and support them or potential children. Its primitive and silly and obviously not always true, but that's how our brains work. Men are hardwired to spread genetic material, women are hardwired to nurture offspring.
 

DuctTapeJedi

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Zeeky_Santos said:
DuctTapeJedi said:
Zeeky_Santos said:
3 points about why this is and then it's /thread

Men are attracted to women. Women can use this to manipulate men (but also vice versa). Classical literature which featured women as lust was written in a male dominant world.

There, put 1, 2 and 3 together and get 6. History is a sexist thing, but it's also where we get our representations of things. All sorts of things too. We get these things from what is already written. Women are purveyors of sexual tension, they use this to manipulate and henceforth women are lust. Simple.
That seems kind of... misogynistic.
Look at the historic context. How are the seven deadly sins romanticised? How were they portrayed in the misogynistic ways of the last few hundred years?

All of that has an influence on today, it's not misogynistic, just perfectly ingrained into our minds that women are purveyors of lust.

P.S.
Women are scientifically speaking more attractive to men in a physical way than men to women (in ways that do fuck with our minds, falling over backwards for chicks). And socially speaking, I've seen more men do crazy things for women than vice-versa.
I wasn't denying that the misogynist thinking exists, I was pointing it out. It's wrong.
 

manaman

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DuctTapeJedi said:
Zeeky_Santos said:
3 points about why this is and then it's /thread

Men are attracted to women. Women can use this to manipulate men (but also vice versa). Classical literature which featured women as lust was written in a male dominant world.

There, put 1, 2 and 3 together and get 6. History is a sexist thing, but it's also where we get our representations of things. All sorts of things too. We get these things from what is already written. Women are purveyors of sexual tension, they use this to manipulate and henceforth women are lust. Simple.
That seems kind of... misogynistic.
I do believe he pointed out that fact. Next time you want to approach a topic philosophically you might want to get a little more sleep first.
 

Superior Mind

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Se7en spoilers.

It's a matter of represenation. I can't remember all the details of Se7en but was Kevin Spacey punishing sinners with his murders or simply representing them? After all he did choose to represent the sin of Wrath with his own death yet he wasn't the one who committed the sin, Brad Pitt was.

A representation of lust is far more accurately portrayed by a sex worker than the fat corporate guy paying for her services. Same with in other media. Lust, sexuality, all that good stuff, is more accurately portrayed by what effects us, not by what is logical.
 

captaincabbage

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DuctTapeJedi said:
[El Snip] or are they just projections of the unconscious guilt and the unreasonable expectations of the male dominated society that created them?
That one. the second one. ._________.
 

Cerrida

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Here are my two cents from a female perspective: (Most) Women don't look at men the same way they look at us. If we want to feel attractive, we wear tight or revealing clothing and wear makeup. Part of that stems from cultural standards of beauty that have been forced on us by fashion magazines, but there is something about the female form itself. In the Christian Bible and its story of creation, the first man's reaction to the first woman is "WOW! That came from me?" Even if you don't believe the Bible, its ideas are still centuries old.
Furthermore, there's a great book called "For Women Only," in which a husband and wife surveyed thousands of men to give women some insight. In that book, they found that most men who looked at an attractive woman kept thinking about her all day. It claimed they have a "visual rolodex" that makes it very hard for faithful men not to be tempted. Women, on the other hand, don't. Personally, I find men attractive but looks come second. My husband is balding and I'd do anything for him. Yes, women find men attractive and even go to strip clubs but it's not all we think about.

tl;dr version: Men are more visual than women and so lust is more naturally personified as a woman than a man because women just wouldn't be affected as much.