Am i the only person that understands MGS's story?

SyphonX

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Mar 22, 2009
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It's not about "understanding the story", people complain that it's convoluted and ridiculous. It has no structure, or coherent plot. Everything is just a random jumble of madness, peppered with an overwhelming number of lengthy meaningless cutscenes.

I used to enjoy MGS, back when there was only the first in the series. Even then, the plot was zany. Now, personally, I feel there is nothing to like about the series and it's plot. They've gone waaay out there, and beyond.. there is no coming back into a lucid state of things. It's time to reboot.
 

T_ConX

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Mar 8, 2010
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If you have a PS3, there's a 'Game' you can download called the MGS4 database (it's on the PSN store, as an addon for MGS4). It's a huge repository of info on the Metal Gear Series (everything except for Peace Walker), and can help clear some things up. However, entries with info relating to MGS4 are locked off, and won't open until you show it that you have MGS4 gameclear data.

Failing that, you can always try the Wiki...
 

Thunderhorse31

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Apr 22, 2009
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Korten12 said:
Hubilub said:
I don't believe you when you say you've watched 1/3 of the cutscenes in the entire series and then claim to understand everything.

I've played all the games, so I understand it, but still, either you have read up on MGS through the internet along with those 1/3 of the cutscenes, or I think you're lying.
thats what I thought when I read that.
Same. I don't want to go so far as to call the OP a liar, but...

You're a no good liar, OP.
 

Nigh Invulnerable

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Jan 5, 2009
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Eclectic Dreck said:
I understand the plot fine. I just think its silly.
This is exactly what I was thinking. I understand the plot well enough, but I think it's stupid and the delivery of said plot is awkward and ham-handed at best, and atrocious at worst. Hideo Kojima has failed the "show, don't tell" portion of his storytelling courses.
 

Julianking93

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May 16, 2009
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Nah. I understand it pretty well and I never even played the first one.

Don't know what people are bitching about. If you pay attention, I think it's pretty easy to get.
 

Lord Aronsworth

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Jul 20, 2010
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Eclectic Dreck said:
I understand the plot fine. I just think its silly.
That about sums it up.

Considering MGS is possibly my favorite series, and I'm willing to admit this, I this there's some validity to metalgearsolid.org's article about Kojima's opinions of MGS4.
 

Diligent

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Dec 20, 2009
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Lost Cause said:
It's easy to understand.

If in doubt, it's down to nanomachines or AI.
This statement here. I think it's purposefully convoluted, but not in a good way.
My favourite parts of the MGS series are when it just says "fuck it" and breaks the 4th wall.
Other than that, it's full of too much exposition so people think it's deep when really it's just poorly written.

EDIT: oops, what I meant to quote was:


Posts: 16
Joined: 20 Jul 2010

Eclectic Dreck:
I understand the plot fine. I just think its silly.

but the one I quoted is still valid!
 

Drexlor

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Feb 23, 2010
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I do. It's complicated but not hard to understand if you actually focus and pay attention.
 

stinkypitz

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I have enough of an understanding to follow it. However, the storytelling is done in such a hamhanded way that makes it much more complicated than it should be. The sign of good storytelling is making complex issues and situations easy to comprehend, not the other way around.
 

Why do I care

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Jan 13, 2010
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After much research and rebuilding my brain just to make it fit, I understood ALL of it. Took a while though.
 

Levitas1234

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Oct 28, 2009
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A secret soilder named snake was called into action to stop the cold war by investigating top secret Russian nuclear plans. He's killed in action by a psychonaut then brought back to life as a 60 year old man to stop terrorism.

I have never played a mgs game, though i assume i'm somewhat close.
 

Ertol

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Jul 8, 2010
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So I've only played the first, I need to get around to playing all 4 in order without any major breaks between them. So, I understand the story as much as possible without knowing any of the other stories, backstories, or who is who. The entire theme of the game kind of seemed to be about paying for the sins of our fathers, and trying to fix what went wrong.

I think the major issue people have with the game is they try to think of it as in the future with nanomachines. To me it seemed like a sort of alternate reality. I place where things like the B&B's and Liquid's soul taking over Ocelot are possible. All I could figure out was that your father helped to create the Patriots, so they could create a perfect world with no conflict. But it backfired and now the entire world is pretty much stuck in an endless cycle of war. Liquid takes this opprotunity to launch an insurection against the Sons of the Patriots and gain control of the entire system that effectivly controls the world. Kind of seemed like the old "I'm evil so I want to rule the world" villian.

That's pretty much what I got out of it without having played the first three. I felt like it was a terrific game with one of the best stories and possible had one of the best story telling experiences I will ever get in a game. The only issue I had with it was that some of the cutscenes seemed way too long. Sure during the final scenes in that Eastern European country and during a few other cut scenes I was happy to just sit back and enjoy a really nice long cutscene. But during some of the mission briefing I was ready to just skip it. They sort of took what could have been a 3 or 4 minute cutscene, and made it 30 minutes to go with the rest of the really long cutscenes.

Maybe it's because I missed the other games, but I felt like the final cut scene was pretty much the single greatest cutscene I have ever seen. Not only does it completly blow your mind with some twists, but it pretty much was long enough and had enough character development and information to make a short movie.

I think that's one reason MGS4 can be hard to get in to. If you play it like a stealth game it's really really good. But play it on the easier difficulties and it sort of sucks. But the cutscenes can be ridiculous. Most poeple are used to cutscenes that last for maybe 2 to 3 minutes, witha final game ending cutscene lasting 10 minutes at the max. MGS4's final cutscene lasts about an hour, but if you really get into the story and see the messages they are trying to get across through the character's actions, it becomes of the best stories in any game.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Hmmm, I think a lot of people don't get this to be honest. Bear with me.

I think to really understand what is going on with Metal Gear, you have to look at Kojima and what was happening outside of the games themselves. As ENN did a skit on, Kojima planned to walk away from the series a large number of times, but was always being forced back by the fans and demand. Metal Gear's plot is not a mess because it's deep, it's a mess because it's absolute junk that was being winged together a bit at a time as he reluctantly re-entered the arena for another piece. He used a sort of wild "conspiricy theory" type set up to deal with the problems of continueing a narrative that was never intended to go on this long and was being expanded on the fly. This created the illusion of this long, drawn out plot that had been intended from the beginning, but really if you look at what was going on with the creator this does not seem to be the case.

Another point to consider is the whole racist, xenophobia angle to the entire thing. To begin with waaay back on the NES the first "Metal Gear" was designed as a giant joke. Read the back story in the instruction booklet that comes with it, it's making fun of the politics of the time, and the entire thing is pretty much set up as a sort of mockery of the US action hero, and US exceptionalism. That said it was popular in a serious fashion for some people, who just never seemed to pay attention to the fact that the whole thing was intended to be bloody absurd as part of the joke.

Due to the popularity of the game however it spawned a sequel, "Snake's Revenge" and then later appeared as "Metal Gear Solid" about this point as the game was getting serious, a problem appeared in of the fact that the hero was a white american soldier. Something which according to some ancient periodicals was seriously annoying a lot of people in Japan who wanted to like the games, but needed a more ethnically appropriate protaganist. Enter the veiled "Switch" to the Japanese hero Raiden, who of course became very popular in Japan while the US audience wanted the original hero back. Raiden seemed to be created with the idea in mind that US audiences could accept Japanese heroes in games, but missed the point that doing a sudden switch of protaganist in a series was going to irritate fans of the original character that made the series.

As the series went on, this of course wound up splitting the Eastern and Western fan bases. One side wanted more Raiden, the other side wanted more Snake. This of course caused things to get even more involuted every single time Kojima was pulled back to the franchise since he was looking at an increasingly bizzare narrative soup that had no idea if it wanted to be serious or a satire, and real world cultural conflicts surrounding it. Debates between fans of Raiden and Snake can get pretty bloody nasty at times from what I've seen.

The bottom line is that with the final chapter, expectations had gotten so high from this mess that, there was no cohesive way of putting all of this together that would account for everything so the best solution basically seemed to be "well, it's all a lie, and anyone who could have sorted any of the details that remain up in the air is dead". This also allowed Kojima to retire Snake, but keep the franchise alive in a new form where Raiden can be focused on which will make the Japanese fans consideraly happier, and hopefully with a new storyline will cause him to be more widely accepted with the US/overseas audience.

I've played Metal Gear a bit, though I'm not a huge fan, and on a couple of points I was interested enough to read up on it elsewhere. The bottom line is that the more you know about this storyline, the less sense it makes, since key elements taken as canon can be contridicted by events elsewhere. One of the reasons why the famous hour long wrap up someone mentioned was nessicary, the only way to resolve the conflicts was to make arguements based on perspective, missing perspectives, and the hopes that nobody will notice stuff that happened elsewhere. The reason why nobody can truthfully claim to fully understand the Metal Gear storyline is because two people who "fully understand it" can argue for hours without any resolution with both being able to support contridictory opinions with elements from the game. Not even Kojima can truely answer questions about it, with authority, because it was never a cohesive work to begin with. Seriously, read the back story for the very first "Metal Gear" game, and then try and reconcile that style with any pretensions of seriousness you see later.

Ah well, enough rambling, and my apologies to whom this may offend. I do realize my comments on "Raiden" and the reasons for his creation are fairly contreversial, but that is the impression I get from some stuff I read back in the day when I was enough of a nerd to be interested in "fansubbed" (ie translated) video game and anime magazines, which incidently did a lot to change the perspective I had on Japan signifigantly.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Blobpie said:
I can sum up MGS's story in three words... WAR IS BAD!!!
I'm not quite sure if that is a message you can take seriously, it seems to be more a statement of certain perspectives in the storyline.

If I had to summarize it I'd probably say that it's a bunch of whining about Ronald Reagan's "MX Missle Program" that went on decades after it was relevent.

See, back when the first Metal Gear came out things like that were more relevent, and the entire thing was a spoof on the US, and even made cartoonish "characture" referances to some of the enemies of the time like the Ayatollah. Snake himself looked a lot like "Rambo" who was the quintessential 80s action hero in most minds.

In case you haven't heard about it, since it's kind of old, the "MX Missle Program" was basically the idea that the US was going to load large portions of it's nuclear arsenal onto trains and trucks (mostly trains) and keep them constantly on the move so in case of a war it would be very difficult for our enemies (the USSR) to sabotage or pre-emptively strike our missles. A contreversial aspect of it was that pretty much nobody would ever know exactly where these missles were at any given time, the idea being that if nobody knew then the Russians couldn't intercept that information to go after the missles. There would be very specific protocols in place for making contact with them, otherwise they would be in the dark.

This idea of course freaked a lot of people out, fears of the US losing it's missles and never knowing it were common, and similar things. The program was apparently scrapped as originally planned, but was secretly implemented in part (as we later learned) with some missles moving that way, but not as many as were planned. Russia incidently had it's own version, and in some movies you'll see Russian trains with missles on them, and this is what that is a referance to.

At any rate, that's what the whole "Metal Gear" concept basically is. A nuclear armed robot that would be moving around so it could in theory launch missles from anywhere. Not a remotely practical idea, but you have to understand the analogy in play, especially given the way how things constantly go horribly wrong with it.

It turned into more of a straightforward mecha thing, but at it's root it's all a satire of a big issue from decades ago.... and incidently when you consider what this concept is about, you can see how the storyline degenerates into nonsense especially given the passage of time and the need to keep it sort of relevent, especially for people who might not have even heard of the "MX Missle Program". ;P