American McGee on Publishers: "News Flash: Things Cost Money"

[Steven Bogos]

American McGee on Publishers: "News Flash: Things Cost Money"

McGee may seek additional funding from publishers for his Ozombies Kickstarter project.

"Apparently, in view of what's happening with Ozombie [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/125624-Broken-Age-Needs-More-Money], and he is issuing a "News Flash" to people who think games with a scope as big as Ozombie and Broken Age can be completed with a "mere" 1 million dollars in Kickstarter funds.

"Just want to say to all the press, public and others who are gnashing their fangs at Kickstarter, Double Fine and anyone they think look "fishy," you can't have it both ways. You can't complain about big publishers and their bad business models, then when an indie developer lays bare their business model and struggles, crucify them for taking risks and being honest. In both cases the hyperbole is through the roof and completely unproductive."

McGee just wants us all to just chill out. He says that fans get angry of pretty much every business practice ever, no matter the actual merit or detriment of it. "Why are we so bent on finding enemies and destroying them? What's happened to civility and constructive debate? Could it be true... all this video-game playing HAS had a significant psychological impact on us all?"

He stresses that developers are just people trying to make a living, and "Publishers aren't the spawn of Satan." He says that the games we play cost huge amounts of money to create and market, and the balancing act of game development is incredibly complex. "Simply put, this shit is hard."

Ozombies has raised $125,000 of it's $950,000 funding goal, and has 32 days left in its Kickstarter campaign (at time of writing).

Source: American Mcgee's Blog [http://www.americanmcgee.com/2013/07/04/news-flash-things-cost-money/]

Permalink

 

[marurder]

The Escapist, why oh why do you persist in putting a megaphone in front of this idiot?

 

[Phrozenflame500]

Hey, I hate publishers because they shit on Devs. If the Devs are fine with going publishers, I am too.

That being said, if you set your Kickstarter for a certain amount while being aware your game will take more money, it's entirely your fault for being completely incompetent.

 

[Agayek]

The Escapist, why oh why do you persist in putting a megaphone in front of this idiot?

The thing is though, in this case, he's right. Everyone needs to take a step back and calm the fuck down on the internet nerdrage. It's far less productive than a civil conversation.

 

[BrotherRool]

crucify them for taking risks and being honest

Honest as in, saying 'give us this money and we'll make a game' and then several months later admitting that the game you're making is way too large for that money? The Double Fine people didn't even promise us a large game.

I'm okay with kickstarters finding additional income sources (although if you're Peter Molyneux and you kickstartered specifically because 'it allows us to avoid publishers' and then afterwards you immediately sign up with a publisher anyway and admit that you'd have made the game even if people hadn't kickstartered it, then it's a little dicey) and I believe that we might well be in a situation where we realise these games are a lot smaller than we think they're going to be (Lots of people believe Project Eternity is going to be 60 hours, but I'd much rather not be optimistic about that. I'm pretty sure they've never mentioned time. It could be 15 hours. It could be 10) but it's still the developers job to be as honest as possible about what they can do with the money before we give it to them

Hey, I hate publishers because they shit on Devs. If the Devs are fine with going publishers, I am too.

That being said, if you set your Kickstarter for a certain amount while being aware your game will take more money, it's entirely your fault for being completely incompetent.

Well to be fair, judging how much time and money it takes to a produce a game is a really hard skill and you hear about developers delaying games and running out of budget all the time, it doesn't have to be incompetence. The thing is kickstarter isn't this magic thing that makes everything easier and because you taking money directly from the consumers before having the game (in something of a charitable way) developers have to realise that there's responsibilities that they've got to manage through that and being good at estimating game cost is one of them.

And without a publisher, no-one is pushing you to manage your budget or milestone your development so it's part of the unspoken agreement of kickstarter that the developer successfully does these things by itself, even if it is hard. If you can't do it then kickstarter isn't for you.

 

[Legion]

I agree with his general sentiment, but the point he makes using Broken Age I partially disagree with. If the developer asks for $400,000 and gets $3,300,000 then there is no excuse for not being able to fund it. They claimed they could do it with around eight times less that amount so if they wanted to expand it they should have done it carefully to remain within budget.

Yes people get far too worked up on the internet, and far too easily. But with Broken Age I believe a lot of people have a point.

 

[Irridium]

Makes sense. Besides, Double Fine isn't even asking people for more money. They're using their money to finish it and just putting the game on Steam's early access to try and recoup some of it. Basically, they're putting the game up for pre-order. Which they could have just said, and nobody would have been angry.

Besides, Schafer said at the beginning of this whole thing that he had no idea what he wanted to do, that he just wanted people to give him $400,000 to make an adventure game and see what happens, saying succeed or fail, it would be an adventure and would be documented. Kickstarter isn't a pre-order shop, every single project there has a chance that it could burn in flames and never come out, and you'll never get back what you invested. That's part of the risk.

 

[CriticalMiss]

You can't complain about big publishers and their bad business models, then when an indie developer lays bare their business model and struggles, crucify them for taking risks and being honest

Is making a zombie game based on The Wizard of Oz a risk? Seems like a pretty safe bet to me, then again he's only managed to get about 10% of the money on Kickstarter so perhaps not. Clearly he is blazing a trail unknown to me.

And yeah, Double Fine raised way more money than they apparently needed which mysteriously turned in to not enough money. Just how much bigger did the game suddenly get and why couldn't they see that the changes they were making were going to eat their massive new budget? I'd say people have a legitimate concern there.

 

[MrBaskerville]

I agree with his general sentiment, but the point he makes using Broken Age I partially disagree with. If the developer asks for $400,000 and gets $3,300,000 then there is no excuse for not being able to fund it. They claimed they could do it with around eight times less that amount so if they wanted to expand it they should have done it carefully to remain within budget.

Yes people get far too worked up on the internet, and far too easily. But with Broken Age I believe a lot of people have a point.

But if they had made a 400,000 game for 3,000,000 million, people would be complaining that they stole the money and bought new cars. They kinda had to increase the scope of the project now that they overreached by this much, because you can´t spend 3 million dollars on a small point´n click adventure, you need to do something more ambitious than that with that much money(or make several point´n click adventures, until the funds run out). Only problem is, they lacked the restraint to stop when they had reached a concept that fitted in the budget, which is unfortunate and something they should have been able to foresee before they went ahead with the production.

 

[Bostur]

He could take a step back and calm down himself. He is blowing things out of proportions.

In the case of Double Fine, they asked for 400,000 - 300,000 for a game 100,000 for a video. They believed they could make a game for that amount, but they got a lot more. So when it turns out they are going over budget it makes sense for the backers to be wary. It wasn't the backers that demanded that DF made a game for 300K, it was Double Fine who believed they could do it.

Sometimes it's not the customers who wants huge pretty games, sometimes it's the developers who get overly ambitious. That is understandable, but don't blame the players for being cautious. There is a big potential for scams in the area of pre-orders, kickstarters and early releases. One reason why people are sceptical is because some of these methods has been heavily abused in the past.

 

[BloodRed Pixel]

The Escapist, why oh why do you persist in putting a megaphone in front of this idiot?

The thing is though, in this case, he's right. Everyone needs to take a step back and calm the fuck down on the internet nerdrage. It's far less productive than a civil conversation.

THIS!
Since a long time I agree with McGee.

Kickstarter is _NOT_preordering_!
It's supporting a project that could have unforseeable consequences and can go wrong at any time. Shit happens, all the time.
All KS Projects I supported did their best to project what was necessary to complete their goals within the forseeable workframe. But that is NO guarantee that these will hold true until the projects is completed.

Some people completely missed that part about KS.

 

[MrHide-Patten]

"Simply put, this shit is hard."

A-men, people seem to think that it's all fun and games (mind the pun) and that you can totally just make games and expect overnight success. Unless your name is 'Tim Schafer' or you're doing a 'spiritual sequel' to some kind of property the people aren't even going to give you a second look on Steam/Greenlight or Kickstarter.

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

I think there's a huge disconnect between what developers expected from these kickstarter campaigns (creative freedom) and some of the less pleasant realities (fewer amenities). If you've "only" got 3-4 million dollars to spend, maybe you won't have a nice office space or the latest and greatest tools. And maybe anyone in it purely for the money will get poached away by a big studio, but that begs the question: why was he/she working on this project in the first place? These kickstarters are supposed to support works of love and devotion. If it's just an alternate means of funding the exact same decadent development practices, I think these people are in for a very rude awakening.

A-men, people seem to think that it's all fun and games (mind the pun) and that you can totally just make games and expect overnight success. Unless your name is 'Tim Schafer' or you're doing a 'spiritual sequel' to some kind of property the people aren't even going to give you a second look on Steam/Greenlight or Kickstarter.

At the same time, some people think that wanting to make a game entitles you to the funds and trust to do so. A lot of the very best indie games were labors of love pain-stakingly created by 1-3 people over the course of several years. I think a lot of kickstarter donations are looking to assist with that development model as opposed to propping up or extending the existing one. I can see where American McGee or Tim Schafer might chafe (...) a little under those expectations, but there are two sides to this "we're not in big publisher Kansas anymore" realization. I think funders realize we won't be getting AAA graphics, 60 hour games, and the best in quality assurance. I'm not so sure these big-name developers realize they won't be getting the salaries, benefits, and security they're accustomed to either.

 

[WWmelb]

I agree with his general sentiment, but the point he makes using Broken Age I partially disagree with. If the developer asks for $400,000 and gets $3,300,000 then there is no excuse for not being able to fund it. They claimed they could do it with around eight times less that amount so if they wanted to expand it they should have done it carefully to remain within budget.

Yes people get far too worked up on the internet, and far too easily. But with Broken Age I believe a lot of people have a point.

400,000$ is nothing. It may be a lot to you but developers see it as just the cost for a very small studio.

You set the price on kickstarter low because you CANNOT expect to have 3-5 million dollars. You aren't a fortune teller. If the kickstarter fails, at least you got some money.

Its exactly like saying "I will build you a custom car for ONLY 100$" and believing him.

game development on the level they promised is NOT 400,000$. 3 million is in the lower end of the ballpark for a game.

In fact, office space for JUST 6 developers costs half a million dollars in equipment, licenses, wages & benefits, etc.

Game development means a game grows over time, no game tends to look exactly the same as it first starts out. There are many games who change entire mentalities mid development. It can be bigger, smaller, or mid sized. Problems could be encountered, the price shoots up to fix it.

Bioshock.

Half Life 2.

Prison Architect.

X-COM

Borderlands.

Sleeping Dogs.

All of these games had changed drastically during its development for one reason or another. Especially in a world where gamers want huge pretty games for the same price as a small mobile app.

Gamers can't have it both ways. They can't expect Skyrim and pay with spare change that a mobile app would ask for. They can't hate publishers yet somehow ONLY love big budget games only publishers can fund. Gamers are also far too removed from development to the point their huge unreasonable expectations are not grounded in reality.

Use a publisher? Now you are a "evil corporate pig who should die." Gamers hate you.

Use early Access or sell pre-orders with alpha access? Suddenly you are a scammer or greedy asshole who sells unfinished games. Still somehow a "puppet." Your game is also called shitty and that's why publishers won't touch it. Gamers still hate you.

Use kickstarter? Gamers give you spare change to try to create the second coming of christ. You suddenly find you don't have enough. Gamers still hate you because "games can't cost that much."

Its not just the "evil" publishers who lost the ability to stick to reality. Gamers' higher and higher expectations, catch 22s, and double standards also drove us here. No matter what, gamers will always hate you and fight you every step of the way.

They know developer, and publisher relationships but they refuse to recognize what goes on in between in the lines other than Jim Sterling's "gaming publisher illuminati" bullshit that is only 10% of the truth.

Development is effected not just by a publisher. You have the licenses for tools, the licenses for engines and the headaches of its tech support, the wages and benefits, the constant poaching of employees by bigger companies. Poaching, in turn, shoots up the price for employees.

If you pay an employee 50,000$ a year, and he jumps ship to another company for 75,000$, the price for his services must be at or above 75,000$. He won't want to lose 25,000$ a year for "helping the little guy." Since developers like programmers are not very common, that puts everyone in a bind.

Game development is not always a clear cut thing. Things happen, plans change. Its easy to say "ill do this" until you actually do it. Its easy to point to some nondescript evil entity in a suit that makes all your problems happen.

Game development is not simple, its not that tied down to plans, nor is it cheap.

Or, as McGee said

"Simply put, this shit is hard."

Very well put.

When a kickstarter is grossly overfunded the expectations of supporters skyrocket. You end up between a rock and a hard place. Deliver what was promised and have people ***** you out for it (3.3million on THAT???) Or up your scope and have people ***** because it's taking longer than expected, or more money than expected.

Why, may i ask, is it such a big deal for DF to be doing this or Spicy horse? I don't see anyone tearing shreds off the Occulus Rift guys for sourcing more funding from external investors... and it is EXACTLY THE SAME.

 

[luvd1]

Yes, things. Cost money. But don't be supriced if you ask more money from your backers and they give you grief. That happens in any business. You make a film that goes over budget and the studio will ask a lot of questions and be up your arse coz it's their money your using. That's business. I am getting annoyed at devs thinking they're rock stars.