American McGee on Publishers: "News Flash: Things Cost Money"

Zombie_Moogle

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Dec 25, 2008
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News Flash: Spending money you don't have is a bad idea

If you don't have the budget to make the game, then scale back. Don't blame the consumer for expecting you to stick to the promises you made
 

Starker

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Mar 17, 2011
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I just want to point out one thing here -- it isn't actually the backers of the game who are angry and complaining. All of this was not exactly news to backers who had been following the documentary, as we knew already that the scope was getting much bigger and that additional funding was being acquired.

In the backer forums, while some people are understandably concerned and critical, the overall reaction is pretty calm and collected, and many people actually feel that DF has already delivered by opening up the development process with the documentary and pretty detailed explanations about modeling, programming, what a producer does, etc.

All of this has been blown way out of proportion by "journalists" who took a forum post and put their own spin on it with misleading headlines and selective quoting.

Oh, and the game looks absolutely amazing. The screenshots don't do it justice.
 

Canadamus Prime

Robot in Disguise
Jun 17, 2009
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lacktheknack said:
canadamus_prime said:
"Things cost money?" No shit. Next you'll be telling me that there's sand at the beach. That doesn't however justify the bullshit business practices of AAA publishers esp. when they're already making enough money to feed and cloth several 3rd world nations for a year.
Thankfully, that's not what he was talking about! He was talking about small studios trying to raise money for their production! So all is well! :D
He does mention the "evil publishers." Yes, the majority of what he says is about Kickstarter, but he does mention publishers and their business practices. Personally I don't have a problem with a developer asking for more money for development. It's entirely possible that they miscalculated their funding needs or went over budget and require more to finish the project. Now if they signed on with a publisher on top of using Kickstarter, I might have a problem with that.

Ultratwinkie said:
canadamus_prime said:
"Things cost money?" No shit. Next you'll be telling me that there's sand at the beach. That doesn't however justify the bullshit business practices of AAA publishers esp. when they're already making enough money to feed and cloth several 3rd world nations for a year.
That doesn't justify the salaries developers get for their high in demand job and the price point of the licenses for engines and game tools?

Because its a lot of money? That means they don't deserve to be paid? I guess anything above minimum wage is suddenly elitist.

News Flash: Development isn't cheap. In fact there is a huge post ridiculing the idea of "evil game publishing illuminati" to be the "root of all ill."
When did I say any of that? Of course salaries have to be paid etc etc. However AAA development doesn't have to be so costly. Besides I will never accept microtransactions in $60-70 dollar games, DRM, and other such bullshit as necessary. Find other ways to make money if you want my custom.
 

marurder

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Jul 26, 2009
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My objection isn't his position on micro-transactions, or even this topic - which it is hard to disagree with [but all he is saying is 'calm down'].
It is his methods and the way he portrays the Chinese gaming industry - which is completely false. He does marketing more than gaming. If you read his articles on how the Chinese gaming industry operates HERE (I am in China you know) it doesn't work at all like that. He says it in a glossy sugar fairy way, probably to attract investment. However The Escapist presents it as fact. THAT is why I call him an idiot.
 

Strazdas

Robots will replace your job
May 28, 2011
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you go to kickstarter AFTER you know there are no publishers willnig to give you money, not before. you are doing it wrong and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Agayek said:
marurder said:
The Escapist, why oh why do you persist in putting a megaphone in front of this idiot?
The thing is though, in this case, he's right. Everyone needs to take a step back and calm the fuck down on the internet nerdrage. It's far less productive than a civil conversation.
nerd rage is the only thing that really got anything on the internet done ever. well nerdrage and modders.

Ultratwinkie said:
Minimum wage is 6-8$ an hour. That's a living wage to live off of, any lower is exploitation.

News Flash: 3.50 is below what people get paid at mcdonalds. In fact, it won't even be enough to live.
This is true if you live in the land of the wasteful.
 

Headdrivehardscrew

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Aug 22, 2011
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Chu Hong Duan McGee made one splendid Alice game more than a decade ago.

He has not repeated this feat since then.

Bad Day L. A. was an insult.

The quality of his Chinese output is... mixed, with a certain schizophrenic quality to it. I am not entirely certain he is aware of this himself. The disconnect seems to be well multilayered.

So... who does he think he is, exactly?
 

lacktheknack

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Jan 19, 2009
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Mick P. said:
lacktheknack said:
Mick P. said:
^With edits:

Starving artists would love to have 3.50$ an hour. I wouldn't work full time myself. That's plenty to live off of. And it beats 0$ an hour you'll be doing when you run out of your funds. If 3.50$ an hour isn't enough for you to be able to make your game, you're going to be making a shitty uninspired game plain and simple.

You know I am not going to cry over the loss of another commercial game. I have negative faith in anyone with this studio mentality producing a half-decent game. If you want to be rolling in dough make a product that brings in more than it cost to develop. Then next time you won't have to go begging for money.
PS: @lacktheknack: Your words are not making sense. I'm posting for everyone else. A work ethic never hurts.
Says the man who wouldn't work fulltime himself, at $3.50 an hour. -__-
I wouldn't work fulltime (currently 40hrs/wk) for anything short of working on an oil rig or an ocean liner just for the season. That would be selfish, dehumanizing, irresponsible, etc.
Please explain to me how having the work ethic you mentioned earlier is selfish, dehumanizing, or irresponsible.

Please explain to me how contributing to society's function is selfish, dehumanizing, or irresponsible.

Please explain to me how you plan on surviving when you leave your parents' house. None of this "I can live on $3.50 hourly part-time", tell me HOW. Outline it. Explain to me how your insane and twisted logic is supposed to pull through. Please explain to me why you're so averse to work. Please explain anything.
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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marurder said:
The Escapist, why oh why do you persist in putting a megaphone in front of this idiot?
To be fair, he's no more an idiot than most of the industry. If they stopped putting microphones in front of idiots, there'd be like, no news. Like, they could update monthly and still not miss anything.

Why is it game devs and publishers who want our money insist on being massive dicks, though?
 

lacktheknack

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Mick P. said:
lacktheknack said:
Mick P. said:
lacktheknack said:
Mick P. said:
^With edits:

Starving artists would love to have 3.50$ an hour. I wouldn't work full time myself. That's plenty to live off of. And it beats 0$ an hour you'll be doing when you run out of your funds. If 3.50$ an hour isn't enough for you to be able to make your game, you're going to be making a shitty uninspired game plain and simple.

You know I am not going to cry over the loss of another commercial game. I have negative faith in anyone with this studio mentality producing a half-decent game. If you want to be rolling in dough make a product that brings in more than it cost to develop. Then next time you won't have to go begging for money.
PS: @lacktheknack: Your words are not making sense. I'm posting for everyone else. A work ethic never hurts.
Says the man who wouldn't work fulltime himself, at $3.50 an hour. -__-
I wouldn't work fulltime (currently 40hrs/wk) for anything short of working on an oil rig or an ocean liner just for the season. That would be selfish, dehumanizing, irresponsible, etc.
Please explain to me how having the work ethic you mentioned earlier is selfish, dehumanizing, or irresponsible.

Please explain to me how contributing to society's function is selfish, dehumanizing, or irresponsible.

Please explain to me how you plan on surviving when you leave your parents' house. None of this "I can live on $3.50 hourly part-time", tell me HOW. Outline it. Explain to me how your insane and twisted logic is supposed to pull through. Please explain to me why you're so averse to work. Please explain anything.
Ok, lets school some spoiled brats. First of all 3.50$ a day is more than most of the world lives on. 3.50$ a day is more than 50 million US Americans get in food stamps. 3.50$ an hour is a lot of money. More than 3.50$ an hour in this hypothetical scenario where the developers of our hypothetical game are not working 40hrs a week because they don't have dehumanized servants attending to their every need and need to set time aside to be socially responsible informed citizens, have some personal growth while making their game for people, because games made by people who work like dehumanized slaves are devoid of insight and the creativity gained from life experiences outside of work. Never mind family and friends and being well rested, because zombies make crap games.


PS: If an individual earns more than 10k a year in the US they must pay federal income taxes. This figure is very high so that people who are ethically unsure about supporting the federal governments spending do not revolt. 10k is lots of money. It's a lot more than you need. And in a future where most people are likely to be unemployed, maybe you'll get to be one of the unemployed and learn something about the real economics of the world. And then you'd be glad to be getting 3.50$ an hour to make a game. An activity that most people will consider playtime.
You know what ruins your entire argument?

You're in America (unless you're lying in your profile?).

Countries that are paid less can by more for less. On the flipside, Australians have a minimum wage of $15, but everything costs more there.

Balance me a budget in which you can live in an apartment or home (not a homeless shelter) in America (or Canada), feed yourself (food stamps are allowed, but they don't cover everything), clothe yourself, maintain your things, heat your home, keep your lights on, and keep the water in your tap flowing, while keeping money put aside for emergencies (medical or otherwise), all while keeping yourself from spiralling into debt, on 10K or less per year. Or better yet, 5K per year, which is what $3.50 on part time adds up to.

It cannot be done. It cannot be done for less than $25K per year if you go low end everything and cut the emergency fund (which will invariably spin you into debt). It cannot be done COMFORTABLY for less than $40K per year.

And when you say "people will be unemployed", are you referring to a mass unemployment? That will only happen if everyone is as insane as you and stops buying ANYTHING to try to live within your idiotic standards. If you mean "everyone will be unemployed at some point", been there and done that. All I learned about the "real economics of the world" is "Even in Canada, the government handouts are not enough to keep your lights on".

And what the hell is this "set time aside to be socially responsible"? You work eight hours a day for five days a week when working full time. This leaves you six to eight hours a day to "be socially responsible" on weekdays alone, with a good 15 or 16 hours of "socially responsible time" available to you on both days of the weekend.

You somehow overlook the fact that more or less ALL Americans work full time after graduating, and yet somehow, we're not surrounded by soulless zombies (unless you're an Ayn Rand fan and think that you are, but you totally aren't if any of your words mean anything).

Man, you are in for a HELL of a surprise when you leave your parents' home. (I know you haven't, because if you wouldn't spill your torrents of "wisdom" if you had.)
 

lacktheknack

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Mick P. said:
*EDITED: Actually the worldwide average income is twice 3.50$ a day, around 7 or 8$ I think. I didn't have to look this up. My brain just skipped a beat. You can live very comfortable on that in The States. If your property is paid for, you just have property taxes, food, utilities. I bicycle into town from a 20acre horse ranch myself. It's good for my heart. I get to live like a celebrity. Doesn't cost a thing.

With every invention it just gets cheaper and cheaper to live. I am certainly no more deserving than the worldwide average human being.
Calling pure BS. Beyond my pure unbelief that you're "living like a celebrity" on $20 a day or less (our small-house utilities cost upwards of $400 to $600 a month, eating nearly $6000 of our money annually), you're not even accounting for the huge investment that is paying for your bloody property, maintaining it when things go horribly wrong, or medical emergencies (which are a BIG FREAKING PROBLEM in the States).

Nope, I don't believe a god-damned word of it.
 

lacktheknack

Je suis joined jewels.
Jan 19, 2009
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Mick P. said:
Anyway. I am finally on forum probation. So I am no longer using the forums here. The end.
Uhhhhh... I've never heard of people abandoning the forums because of probation... so, uh... bye, I guess?

2 HOUSES FOR 10K WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF NEVER HAS ANY EMERGENCIES OF ANY KIND WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF I'LL NEVER KNOW THE ANSWERS ;____;
 

The Lugz

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marurder said:
The Escapist, why oh why do you persist in putting a megaphone in front of this idiot?
I see nothing idiotic about his statement, please point me at it else my opinion is it seems fair and rationalised