American McGee Sets the Record Straight on China's Game Policy

Voulan

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Jul 18, 2011
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American McGee said:
Seriously? We're talking about video game censorship and you guys take it to something horrible and unrelated like that little girl getting run over? You equate my article with defending *that*?!

This is exactly why I started off by saying that my initial reaction was to not respond at all... because people are largely unable to see past their preconceived notations and prejudices.

YES there are *bad things* about China. Guess what? There are *bad things* about all countries. Little girls getting run over - better or worse than little girl being blown up by drones? We could do this all day.

The original article was sensationalist and factually incorrect. Or does that not matter to you because it's more fun to make jokes about me "working for China" and read stuff that reinforces your preset expectations about the world outside your borders? How dare someone ask you to stretch a bit!
It's most likely because the easiest way for people to judge a country that is apparently "different in every way" is through sensationalist stories like these ones. It goes way back into the cultural bias and tendency well-set in Western thought from the Cold War against Communism. Despite first-hand accounts and what-not, people will hold on to the idea of "Evil Communist China" for a long while yet. Which is stupid and unfortunate. These same corporate practices are done everywhere.

As a happier side note, I really love the Alice games. Feel free to keep making more!
 

ThatGuy

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American McGee said:
Because the Chinese government wanted to block foreign corporations from establishing a monopoly for game distribution in their country. See retail game distribution in the US as an example. It's anti-competition, pure and simple. Same goes for why they block Facebook or disrupt Google's services here. There are Chinese equivalents and they wish to give them a leg up (well, more than that... they want to see them dominate locally then attempt to dominate globally. See Tencent.)
Thank you for explaining this so clearly, American! I am also living and working in China, and it amazes me how people in the US don't understand that these policies are geared towards reducing competition and bolstering local businesses. There is, however, another reason that's worth mentioning: stability. I'm not sure which motivation comes first in the eyes of the authorities, but both are quite important to the government.
 

anteater123

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Nov 28, 2012
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What I think is interesting is that of the numerous examples Mr. Rath gave in his article the only one Mr. McGee seemed to be able to come up with a rebuttal to is the example of Homefront. No mention of any of the other examples.

The fact of the matter is that Chinese censorship is ruthlessly oppressive and if most videogames manage to fly under the radar it's because they don't deal with what infuriates the Chinese government more than anything else: criticizing the Chinese government. One need only look at the way they cracked down on China's 5th generation filmmakers for the films they made in the late '80's and early '90's (films like To Live and The Blue Kite) or the way they have bullied and abused artists and activists like Ai Weiwei and Liu Xiabo for criticizing the government to see how little tolerance they have for it, and the idea that you could compare USDOT's stance on imported electric cars in the US (and let's just ignore all the domestic ones that are starting to hit the market) to this oppression is utterly absurd.

There is a huge difference between electric cars and freedom of expression and there is a huge difference in having to put skin on skeletons and being imprisoned for publicly criticizing the government, something McGee doesn't have to worry about with the kinds of games he makes (really, Mr. McGee, go make a game where you get to play as Tank Man and see how warm and welcoming the Chinese government is to you then), and one does not need to live in China to see how oppressive the government is, just like one does not need to live in the US to see how wrong the US was in carrying out the war in Iraq (or whatever other example you want to use).

I have, admittedly, never been to China, but I would love to go. I have no doubt that I would find it an amazing country with a rich, deep culture and wonderful people. However, I despise much of what their government has done to their own citizens and even if I went and lived there for awhile (something else I would be perfectly willing to do), it would not change the fact that what they have done to their own artists and activists who, in the government's eyes, step out of line, is morally reprehensible, and while I don't buy into the BS in some of these comments about how Mr. McGee has a Chinese gun to his head, I genuinely wonder if he can come on here and speak out against what, say, the Chinese government has done to Liu Xiabo or Ai Weiwei, because I assume, as a good and decent human being, that he does find the government's treatment of these two and so many others morally reprehensible.

It seems to me the reason he has found making games in China such a pleasurable experience is because he has been very careful to keep his nose clean and not make any waves and that is in fact the problem. People in China do not have the same freedom of expression that comparable artists in the US, Europe and much of the rest of the world do, and there is simply no excuse or justification for that.
 

eatsnobananas

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Nov 28, 2012
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First off, in response to ...

"Next, the suggestion that the "exec team will be banned from entering into China" is ridiculous."

I'd like to point out that Brad Pitt and David Thewlis are both banned from China "for life" because they were in Seven Years in Tibet. Not to mention half of the people on this list ... http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/37-celebrities-banned-from-foreign-countries - People such as Martin Scorsese, Harrison Ford and even Jay-Z. So yeah, China bans people from entering the country. And yes, I'm going to wager that being the executive behind an anti-Chinese game would more likely result in a ban than starring (and co-starring) in a mediocre, pro-Tibetan film.

As for your interview, you completely missed the point the original author was making. He was essentially pointing out that the Chinese (government and people), a growing market, are going to take to a game or movie full of shooting Chinese antagonists the same way the Americans would take to a movie/game full of American antagonists getting shot. Granted, I added the second half of that sentence as my own conclusion, but I really didn't find it that difficult to conclude. For a non-Chinese example, I noticed "Valley of the Wolves: Iraq" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0493264/) didn't do very well in Israel.

My conclusion? You have some new games coming out and found an outlet for attention. Snore.

And while we're at it, to everyone who keeps saying, "Oh, the Chinese government blocks trade to help boost local businesses" - Google: "autarky". It's a bad thing.
 

aceman67

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Jan 14, 2010
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Last I checked, Homefront was a PC game as well...

But wow... This just entire interview reeks of being coached by the Chinese government (based on McGee's responses).
 

Karma168

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AldUK said:
He sounds very apologetic of a culture which, frankly, we should all be wary of. I don't mean to sound inflammatory with that statement, but if you actually look at their governments policies and practices, there is really no excusing China. For example, the case of a village being forced to move, when one man lay in the road to protest, the government overseerer told the drivers to kill him. They did. In front of his family and friends. And that's not even that uncommon a story over there. http://www.infowars.com/man-crushed-by-road-flattening-truck-on-orders-of-chinese-officials/
In Britain entire neighbourhoods were demolished during the 19th century to make way for new factories, railways, etc. anyone who resisted either ended up dead or in Australia. Hell compulsory purchase orders are still being used today in the UK so it's not a uniquely Chinese thing.

There's also the recent case of the young girl, ran over by a truck in the street, left to bleed to death by multiple passers-by who did not want to get involved. http://www.chinasmack.com/2011/videos/2-year-old-chinese-girl-ran-over-by-van-ignored-by-18-bystanders.html
1) what does that have to do with the Chinese government? Was she hit by a government vehicle outside a government building?

2) look up the bystander effect [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect]. If there's a crowd around people often ignore someone whose injured because 'someone else will deal with it'. Again not a uniquely Chinese thing, it happens in the West every day.
 

Spartan212

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Sep 10, 2011
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So, what I've gathered from this story/thread:

China isn't bad because America does bad things

The Chinese government forces their own people to buy crap products to promote local business. How are people just glazing over this? It's completely anti-consumer and is just another way their government screws over its people
 

MikeWehner

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Aug 21, 2011
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aceman67 said:
This just entire interview reeks of being coached by the Chinese government (based on McGee's responses).
If the Chinese government is spending resources to coach a game developer on how to respond to a list of questions that a game journalist sent via email... I think the country has bigger problems than anything discussed here. (Read: I think you've been watching too much Conspiracy Theory with host Jesse Ventura)
 

broli4000

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Jul 5, 2011
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Since we have American McGee on here which is pretty awesome in its own right...

I don't think anyone outside of China can judge about how great it is to work in China. Since I have never been there, I can't discuss their regulations and committees. I will say that China certainly doesn't have the best reputation in the global market for quality work and for human rights but then again America isn't really high on the list either.

I will also say that American is going to take a large hit on this matter regardless of facts. In the middle of a recession when we are seeing people lose their jobs and their houses, outsourcing something you could do here to China is not exactly a fan favorite. Its never going to be a fan favorite, especially when we all think the excuses you give for it are just screens and its all really about producing a game cheaper to make more money.

Now as a business owner myself I can completely understand this. As an independent developer it makes sense to save as much money as possible so you can make an initial investment last longer and keep employees paid. It also gives you more of a chance to produce more games which can in turn produce more money so you can take time on 1 big pet project. I get it, I truly do. What I don't get is why that just isn't said out loud. I know the gaming community can be a ***** but I'd like to think that a majority of the community is mature enough to get it and appreciate it.

Basically, I just can't see the biggest reason for your move as solely a government one and it feels like that is what you are saying.
 

Moosejaw

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Oct 11, 2010
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Spartan212 said:
So, what I've gathered from this story/thread:

China isn't bad because America does bad things

The Chinese government forces their own people to buy crap products to promote local business. How are people just glazing over this? It's completely anti-consumer and is just another way their government screws over its people
You are pretty damned naive if you believe every other country, including the U.S., doesn't do this. It's protectionism, and we've got a lot of it.

Do you know why most products used High Fructose Corn Syrup instead of sugar in the U.S.? Because they didn't want to enrich the Cubans by getting cane sugar from them, so they raised tariffs on cane sugar as high as was necessary until it became more cost effective for local companies to use the syrup instead, using corn from the U.S.
 

Zombie_Moogle

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American McGee said:
Evil Smurf said:
why is the sale of PS3/Xbox banned in China?
Because the Chinese government wanted to block foreign corporations from establishing a monopoly for game distribution in their country. See retail game distribution in the US as an example. It's anti-competition, pure and simple. Same goes for why they block Facebook or disrupt Google's services here. There are Chinese equivalents and they wish to give them a leg up (well, more than that... they want to see them dominate locally then attempt to dominate globally. See Tencent.)

Interesting side effect that I doubt the government predicted is the online game industry in China today. It's massive. And all a result of an artificial barrier put in place by government. In hindsight I'm sure they like to claim success as a result of forward thinking 15+ years ago.

All that being the case, one can still acquire 360/PS3 games here. 360 games are freely available, pirated. PS3 games are brought in via Hong Kong. Both can be found in most pirate DVD shops.
Interesting. I have 2 follow-up questions, if I may:

1) Isn't that just trading one monopoly for another? Personally, I would love to see Chinese games get wide commercial release in the US. Diversity of perspective is what art thrives on. How can the corporate model be described as anti-competition (don't get me wrong, it absolutely is), while a system of unilateral certification for Chinese release isn't?

2) As digital distribution becomes increasingly utilized, allowing independent developers easy means of publication & promotion, do you think these restrictions will still be needed to prevent corporate monopolies?
 

Spartan212

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Moosejaw said:
Spartan212 said:
So, what I've gathered from this story/thread:

China isn't bad because America does bad things

The Chinese government forces their own people to buy crap products to promote local business. How are people just glazing over this? It's completely anti-consumer and is just another way their government screws over its people
You are pretty damned naive if you believe every other country, including the U.S., doesn't do this. It's protectionism, and we've got a lot of it.

Do you know why most products used High Fructose Corn Syrup instead of sugar in the U.S.? Because they didn't want to enrich the Cubans by getting cane sugar from them, so they raised tariffs on cane sugar as high as was necessary until it became more cost effective for local companies to use the syrup instead, using corn from the U.S.
I would assume that was because we have an embargo with Cuba over the Cuban Missile Crisis from the 1960s. That's a far cry from locking out other countries from selling their products here. It's not even close to being the same thing.

Please give an ACTUAL example of where the US blocks out other countries. Because all I see here are Japanese electronics, German cars, and Chinese parts
 

Dr.Susse

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Apr 17, 2009
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Any issues people have aside American McGee seems like a bloke with his head screwed on straight. He said at the beginning that he contemplated writing a response to the first article which shows just how much he cares about what he does and the fact that he didn't proves he is smart enough to think about actions/reactions.

Instead of slagging off or being rude a clear and honest interview thing ended up being not only a good read but earned him my respect.
 

Art Salmons

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Oct 31, 2012
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Hey American McGee: I've got a brilliant idea. Let's take a bunch of fairy tale characters.... but make them CORRUPT AND EVIL! Wow, nobody ever thought of that before. We'll make billions.
 

Alexnader

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May 18, 2009
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American McGee said:
Because the Chinese government wanted to block foreign corporations from establishing a monopoly for game distribution in their country. See retail game distribution in the US as an example. It's anti-competition, pure and simple. Same goes for why they block Facebook or disrupt Google's services here. There are Chinese equivalents and they wish to give them a leg up (well, more than that... they want to see them dominate locally then attempt to dominate globally. See Tencent.)

Interesting side effect that I doubt the government predicted is the online game industry in China today. It's massive. And all a result of an artificial barrier put in place by government. In hindsight I'm sure they like to claim success as a result of forward thinking 15+ years ago.

All that being the case, one can still acquire 360/PS3 games here. 360 games are freely available, pirated. PS3 games are brought in via Hong Kong. Both can be found in most pirate DVD shops.
That's great and I do in fact recall playing Ace Combat 6 on an Xbox 360 at my cousin's place in China. However the ban on PS3/360 consoles is less relevant to Homefront given it has a PC version. It was presumably a port done by Digital Extremes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homefront_(video_game)#PC_version

The console ban was the only evidence you provided for your claim that Homefront "was never intended to sell in China" and thus could not be subject to pressure from the Chinese government. On the other hand the "pressure" that the Homefront developers felt seems to come down to some guys in the office worrying about whether or not they'd be banned from visiting China.

So personally I feel like the Homefront devs did not face any real pressure from China and that you should brush up on your knowledge of crappy modern military shooters.
 

the clockmaker

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Jun 11, 2010
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American McGee said:
Evil Smurf said:
why is the sale of PS3/Xbox banned in China?
Because the Chinese government wanted to block foreign corporations from establishing a monopoly for game distribution in their country. See retail game distribution in the US as an example. It's anti-competition, pure and simple. Same goes for why they block Facebook or disrupt Google's services here. There are Chinese equivalents and they wish to give them a leg up (well, more than that... they want to see them dominate locally then attempt to dominate globally. See Tencent.)

Interesting side effect that I doubt the government predicted is the online game industry in China today. It's massive. And all a result of an artificial barrier put in place by government. In hindsight I'm sure they like to claim success as a result of forward thinking 15+ years ago.

All that being the case, one can still acquire 360/PS3 games here. 360 games are freely available, pirated. PS3 games are brought in via Hong Kong. Both can be found in most pirate DVD shops.
The solution to a monopoly is not a monopoly. And I'm really not sure that I believe you that the motive behind disrupting google was to boost Chinese competitors.

On top of that, the idea that it's okay that these things are flat out banned because you can get them illegally without too much trouble is not a defence of that law.

China is not an orwellian state, but the Government is far, far to intrusive into the lives of its people, and you seem to be trying to draw attention away from that. I am not claiming that you are corrupt, or anything of that nature, but I am claiming that you are viewing the PRC through very rose tinted goggles.