American McGee Sets the Record Straight on China's Game Policy

MikeWehner

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Aug 21, 2011
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American McGee Sets the Record Straight on China's Game Policy

Noted developer and head of Spicy Horse Games sheds some light on what it's like to create games from within China

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Formica Archonis

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Nov 13, 2009
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The definition of safety might be disputed - but I personally like the idea that the Chinese government actively works to suppress superstition and cults throughout games and media. China is a secular country and has regulation in place to maintain that. Carl Sagan would love that aspect of China (while likely hating other things, but he's dead, so hey).

He's dead so YOU SHOULDN'T PUT WORDS IN HIS MOUTH YOU JACKASS.

sup·press verb (used with object)
2. to do away with by or as by authority; abolish; stop (a practice, custom, etc.).

I seem to recall his show being called Cosmos and not I'm Carl Sagan and I Order You to be A Smart Atheist. Educating people and forcing people to change are two different things, and the second one has a history of not working.

Or is this a Newspeak thing where you filter multiple words down into one word mandated for use in all situations?
 

Slash2x

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Dec 7, 2009
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ANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNND the conspiracy engines are already off and running.....

"Mcgee You read card now!"

*monotone* "The Chinese treat all game developers very nice."
 

Zeckt

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Nov 10, 2010
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He makes a very good point. People just don't want to believe how much power our coorporations have over us in north america, the rich make too much money off of oil and the rich and elite are the people who have sway over the government. Not the other 99% of the population that is forced to use the heavily taxed oil with no alternative even when they are out there. They are just too well entrenched with too much political power and too much money. Ragging on China because of their intolerance of seeing skeletons is literally petty if you open your eyes compared to what our corporations do to us.
 

l3o2828

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Mar 24, 2011
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I am glad i wasn't the only one who pictured American writting/saying this at gunpoint.
 

xdiesp

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Kind of telling, that one named American is now working for the Chinese and loving it. ^_^
 

DemonCrim

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Why anyone would want to defend China's policies is beyond me. Maybe I'm just spoiled living in the US but China in my mind is a dirty underdeveloped prison forcing their people to work in terrible condition for little to no pay. Forcing women to either to have an abortion or pay a massive fine meaning having more than two children in that country is the luxury of the rich. Lets not forget the great firewall of China, and yet companies flock to China to have all their stuff made and politicians try to buddy up with China. But hey I guess you don't really need a moral compass in either of those jobs...
 

Woodsey

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The definition of safety might be disputed - but I personally like the idea that the Chinese government actively works to suppress superstition and cults throughout games and media. China is a secular country and has regulation in place to maintain that. Carl Sagan would love that aspect of China (while likely hating other things, but he's dead, so hey).
Well then you're an idiot who doesn't know what it means when we talk about secular countries - it means superstition and religion have no place in government and lawmaking, not that they're "suppressed" in everything and anything.
 

AldUK

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Oct 29, 2010
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He sounds very apologetic of a culture which, frankly, we should all be wary of. I don't mean to sound inflammatory with that statement, but if you actually look at their governments policies and practices, there is really no excusing China. For example, the case of a village being forced to move, when one man lay in the road to protest, the government overseerer told the drivers to kill him. They did. In front of his family and friends. And that's not even that uncommon a story over there. http://www.infowars.com/man-crushed-by-road-flattening-truck-on-orders-of-chinese-officials/

There's also the recent case of the young girl, ran over by a truck in the street, left to bleed to death by multiple passers-by who did not want to get involved. http://www.chinasmack.com/2011/videos/2-year-old-chinese-girl-ran-over-by-van-ignored-by-18-bystanders.html

Don't defend China and it's policies, expose them.
 

Thyunda

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May 4, 2009
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AldUK said:
He sounds very apologetic of a culture which, frankly, we should all be wary of. I don't mean to sound inflammatory with that statement, but if you actually look at their governments policies and practices, there is really no excusing China. For example, the case of a village being forced to move, when one man lay in the road to protest, the government overseerer told the drivers to kill him. They did. In front of his family and friends. And that's not even that uncommon a story over there. http://www.infowars.com/man-crushed-by-road-flattening-truck-on-orders-of-chinese-officials/

There's also the recent case of the young girl, ran over by a truck in the street, left to bleed to death by multiple passers-by who did not want to get involved. http://www.chinasmack.com/2011/videos/2-year-old-chinese-girl-ran-over-by-van-ignored-by-18-bystanders.html

Don't defend China and it's policies, expose them.
Well, time to equate the ESRB with the US military. Apparently it's the cool thing to do on this thread.
 

American McGee

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Mar 15, 2012
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Seriously? We're talking about video game censorship and you guys take it to something horrible and unrelated like that little girl getting run over? You equate my article with defending *that*?!

This is exactly why I started off by saying that my initial reaction was to not respond at all... because people are largely unable to see past their preconceived notations and prejudices.

YES there are *bad things* about China. Guess what? There are *bad things* about all countries. Little girls getting run over - better or worse than little girl being blown up by drones? We could do this all day.

The original article was sensationalist and factually incorrect. Or does that not matter to you because it's more fun to make jokes about me "working for China" and read stuff that reinforces your preset expectations about the world outside your borders? How dare someone ask you to stretch a bit!
 

AldUK

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Thyunda said:
Well, time to equate the ESRB with the US military. Apparently it's the cool thing to do on this thread.
I fail to see how the Chinese military have anything to do with the examples I gave, since I assume that's the connection you're trying to make there. The examples I gave are of Chinese culture, which is directly linked to their video-games ratings and regulations, since guess what? Video games are a major part of culture.

Try harder.
 

dangoball

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Jun 20, 2011
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DemonCrim said:
Why anyone would want to defend China's policies is beyond me. Maybe I'm just spoiled living in the US but China in my mind is a dirty underdeveloped prison forcing their people to work in terrible condition for little to no pay. Forcing women to either to have an abortion or pay a massive fine meaning having more than two children in that country is the luxury of the rich. Lets not forget the great firewall of China, and yet companies flock to China to have all their stuff made and politicians try to buddy up with China. But hey I guess you don't really need a moral compass in either of those jobs...
Ehm:

"Why anyone would want to defend US's policies is beyond me. Maybe I'm just ignorant living in the Middle East but US in my mind is an Ivory Tower forcing other people to work in terrible condition for little to no pay. Forcing young men to serve and die in wars of which motives they don't even understand and not serving is the luxury of the rich. Lets not forget the immigration policies of US, and yet companies flock to US to have their base there and politicians try to buddy up with US. But hey I guess you don't really need a moral compass in either of those jobs..."
- Some Random Bloke

You see, opinions. Opinions and perception. I'm not saying my little rewriting of your post represents my stance on things but it is how some people perceive the US, even in central Europe where I'm from. If someone wants to demonize/idealize something (be it a country, a product or an idea) it's really not hard. We humans like to hate on stuff, you see? It all depend on what sources of information you have and how open you are to them. No one is going to tell you the truth, everyone will try to make them look better than the others. It's your job to put together the pieces and form an informed opinion. Case in point: Communism - an idea most don't even understand and never will bother to due to everyones favorite scarecrow of the Cold War, the USSR, when in fact it's as utopian as Utopia itself (and that's why it never happened and never will).


OT:
Anyway I really like what's in that interview. Insiders voice is really important but so is onlookers. Too bad some eternally neutral celestial onlooker can't weight in on any of these discussion (nope, whatever deity you worship does not count), might have some interesting things to say :)
 

Thyunda

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May 4, 2009
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AldUK said:
Thyunda said:
Well, time to equate the ESRB with the US military. Apparently it's the cool thing to do on this thread.
I fail to see how the Chinese military have anything to do with the examples I gave, since I assume that's the connection you're trying to make there. The examples I gave are of Chinese culture, which is directly linked to their video-games ratings and regulations, since guess what? Video games are a major part of culture.

Try harder.
If you insist...because you've somehow managed to equate the regulation of videogames with the crushing of protesters, as though the two are connected in any way.

Oh wait. I see how they're connected. The overseer represented the Ministry of Culture...just as the videogame regulation board also represent a separate department of the same Ministry! Oh of course it all makes sense now! I am so sorry I never saw it before. Shit, American McGee, you best stop clarifying rumours about one aspect of China, because this other aspect of China is bad! Join the motherfucking propaganda wheel with the rest of us! China bad! Everything about China bad!
 

Ryan Hughes

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Jul 10, 2012
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Look, I have traveled in China, and even had the distinct honor or training at the (northern) Shaolin Temple in Henan, near Dengfeng.

What Mr. McGee is saying is not completely correct, and not completely incorrect. We often paint the Chinese government as this Orwellian villain, with overbearing constriction on the truth. That is not correct, China's government hardly has the resources to ban Facebook and censor Google, let alone control all sorts of information from a myriad of sources. While certain embarrassing historical events are surgically removed from their official history, such as the Tienanmen Square massacre or the Trung Rebellion in Nam Viet in 40 a.d., few real threats against free information are carried out. Hence why people like Huang Weikai and Lou Ye are still free people and can operate inside and out of the country.

What Mr. McGee clearly does not understand is how well -as someone who is foreign born- he is treated, and that many of the foreign businesses are treated with a greater latitude than the Chinese businesses. This is in order for the government to save face, as those who are originally foreign have much greater contact with foreign countries and media, as this article proves somewhat.

Chinese nationals are often the subject of political corruption as well, especially outside of Shanghai, oddly enough. In 2011, the International Association of Anti-Corruption Authorities held their annual conference in Shanghai, which for the 2008 games, and the 2010 international expo underwent major reconstruction and a -to put it kindly- "flushing out" of many of the more corrupt officials and administrators that it once held. But, once one reaches the inner areas of the nation, corruption and the extreme wealth difference and poverty that come with it are much more evident.

While I actually applaud China on its approach to banning extreme violence rather than worry about cuss words or pixel genitals, I worry about any kind of censorship in this form, especially religious censorship. Occult censorship is often used as a code-word for politically dissonant religious sects, while the religious practices of these so-called "occult" people are no different than their mainstream counterparts, religious sects objecting to oversight by the cultural ministry are belittled and outcast.

Keep in mind, though, that China has a wide array of political beliefs. On Chinese State TV, or CCTV, while I was there, they had an open and free discussion of wealth inequality in China on one of their forum "talking-heads" TV shows. The serious issue of masses of people not being able to enjoy China's newfound economic prosperity is a hot issue amoung the nation's communists, and rightly so. Seeing billionaires drive their Mazerati around in front of the hovels in Shanghai and Zhengzho was a real eye-opening moment for me. And in rural communities, the division between the wealthy and the poor is much, much greater.

The Cultural Ministry tends to attract hard-line conservatives, much like how many conservatives all over the world attempt to guard their cultures against change. Overall, the government of China is much more progressive, and their is an ongoing, public debate over the attitudes in the government and its priorities. The communists want government action on wealth inequity, while the conservatives want to guard Chinese culture from outside influence, especially from Japan. This is the continental divide of Chinese politics at the moment.

My point being, that with this type of media censorship, we see the Chinese government at its worst, not at its best.

In closing, please keep in mind that China is a vast country with all types of people in it. Some are corrupt or totalitarian, but most, especially outside the government's cultural ministry, are wonderful people. They just wish for the well-being of their country and its people, but have a very different take on specific ways to go about it than you or I do. What China wants most of all is respect, and I think they deserve it, being one of the oldest and most learned cultures on the planet, but there is no doubt that they go too far in the pursuit of this respect.
 

Thyunda

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May 4, 2009
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American McGee said:
Seriously? We're talking about video game censorship and you guys take it to something horrible and unrelated like that little girl getting run over? You equate my article with defending *that*?!

This is exactly why I started off by saying that my initial reaction was to not respond at all... because people are largely unable to see past their preconceived notations and prejudices.

YES there are *bad things* about China. Guess what? There are *bad things* about all countries. Little girls getting run over - better or worse than little girl being blown up by drones? We could do this all day.

The original article was sensationalist and factually incorrect. Or does that not matter to you because it's more fun to make jokes about me "working for China" and read stuff that reinforces your preset expectations about the world outside your borders? How dare someone ask you to stretch a bit!
Welcome to the Escapist, chief. Everything is equivalent to running a little girl over.
 

AldUK

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I was writing a response to Mr. McGee when I accidentally hit the back key on my mouse and lost it all, but it's probably for the best, since I've said what I wanted to say on this. Just to clarify - I absolutely love aspects of China, its food, its history... but what I was attempting to put across here, is that it's foolish to be blind to the negative side of China and pretend like it's some kind of utopia, simply under attack from people who don't know any better.

I never once said I supported American / European actions around the world either, particularly in the middle-east, but frankly, that's getting pretty far removed from video game censorship.

China censors almost every aspect of it's media and it does so because it seeks to control it's people, we should all be aware of it and discuss it, not rationalize it. That's my argument.
 

dangoball

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Jun 20, 2011
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American McGee said:
Seriously? We're talking about video game censorship and you guys take it to something horrible and unrelated like that little girl getting run over? You equate my article with defending *that*?!

This is exactly why I started off by saying that my initial reaction was to not respond at all... because people are largely unable to see past their preconceived notations and prejudices.

YES there are *bad things* about China. Guess what? There are *bad things* about all countries. Little girls getting run over - better or worse than little girl being blown up by drones? We could do this all day.

The original article was sensationalist and factually incorrect. Or does that not matter to you because it's more fun to make jokes about me "working for China" and read stuff that reinforces your preset expectations about the world outside your borders? How dare someone ask you to stretch a bit!
That's human nature to you. I, for one, thank you for sharing your view on the subject and please don't be put off by some not-so-reasonable responses. There are some reasonable individuals on the internet. I might or might not be one of them, depending on planet alignment and space radiation.

Thyunda said:
American McGee said:
Welcome to the Escapist, chief. Everything is equivalent to running a little girl over.
More like "welcome to the internet". Still, the Escapist ain't as bad as 4-chan, right?
...
Right?
 

Thyunda

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AldUK said:
I was writing a response to Mr. McGee when I accidentally hit the back key on my mouse and lost it all, but it's probably for the best, since I've said what I wanted to say on this. Just to clarify - I absolutely love aspects of China, its food, its history... but what I was attempting to put across here, is that it's foolish to be blind to the negative side of China and pretend like it's some kind of utopia, simply under attack from people who don't know any better.

I never once said I supported American / European actions around the world either, particularly in the middle-east, but frankly, that's getting pretty far removed from video game censorship.

China censors almost every aspect of it's media and it does so because it seeks to control it's people, we should all be aware of it and discuss it, not rationalize it. That's my argument.
I'll assume you work in the industry over there, yeah?