An article about the crossdressing scene in FF7

[CritialGaming]

I thought this might be a good article to bring to people's attention. Especially with the REMAKE in the works and a lot of people not only worried about that scene in the game, but with the current social climate and viewpoint on the LBGT community as a whole.

http://boingboing.net/2015/07/17/how-should-we-talk-about-final.html

Read the article, (which I did not write, nor do i have any connection too other than my interest in the subject matter), and voice your opinions here. Im curious to see what people not only think about how the original game played that scene out, but how they could improve upon it in the REMAKE.

 

[Redryhno]

Well, I didn't think much of it when I first played it, didn't think much of it when I actually finished it a few years ago. Not much that can be improved upon I don't think, but hey, I think FF7's a decent game that has gotten FAR too much praise over the years and the remake's honestly just another meh title to me. So my opinion probably doesn't matter around here.

I mean, there's probably a better way to do it, but in a game that tries so hard to take itself seriously and tries to make a "darker" atmosphere to the point of it becoming unintentional parody of itself, it was a nice little change of pace. Things can nearly ALWAYS be done better, but I'm honestly more concerned about them making Tifa into a real background character and pushing more Aerith crap around than I am about an hour long segment meant to be played for laughs without mocking factoring into it. Who knows, maybe I just watch too much comedy anime, but it's sorta just a thing that's there for me.

 

[SmallHatLogan]

The joke, in the case of VII, was Cloud's (and, by extension, the player's) sense of discomfort despite there not being any real reason to be uncomfortable in the first place. Discussions about the negative aspects of VII's portrayal of crossdressing-the stigmatization of other queer characters, the way Cloud's boundaries become a joke inside the brothel-are important and necessary.

I think the author's complaints are pretty trivial. Call me old fashioned but I'd be uncomfortable if I had to dress as a woman and infiltrate a brothel. And the portrayal of gays as "predatory and creepy" is a bit of an exaggeration. Overall even by today's standards I think that whole sequence was handled pretty well.

Anyway, leave it unchanged someone's going to complain, change it and the hardcore FFVII fans will complain. There's no winning here.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I can see where the author's coming from. I mean, I'm not trans like they are, but as a cis-man[footnote]cis=splaining ahoy![/footnote], the hot tub bit was the only part that was, you know, "wait, what?"

Everything else seemed pretty light hearted. I mean, besides Cloud being mister-angsty-pants, everyone else ranged from chill to enthusiastic.

Still, cis perspective here, so feel free to dismiss.

All that said, I am worried squeenix is going to screw the whole thing up, and a badly handled Wall Market could very well be the dingle-cherry on top of the shit sundae.

 

[Neverhoodian]

I may be a white-bread cisgendered male brought up in a middle-class suburban neighborhood, but I don't see what the big deal is one way or the other.

Now I haven't played Final Fantasy VII, but it's my understanding that Cloud is a distinct character. He's not a "blank slate" like Gordon Freeman or a WRPG "create-a-character," where it's relatively easy for players to cast themselves as the protagonist. If Cloud feels uncomfortable cross-dressing or getting in a hot tub with a bunch of burly men because he's straight and cisgendered, why is that suddenly a huge deal? Straight and cisgender guys usually don't go for those sort of things. You know, because they're fucking straight and cisgender. Nothing wrong with that.

Also, can folks please stop bringing up up that PoE epitaph as an example of transphobia and "punching down?" If all it takes to ruin your day is a short, easily-missed poem tucked away in an NPC graveyard, you should probably take a step back and re-evaluate your priorities.

 

[Dalisclock]

It's hard for me to comment on this. I played FF7 once around 15 years ago and I usually totally forget Wall Market was a thing until someone mentions it. I don't remember if I had any feelings about it and I'd have to play through it again today to see how it holds up. However considering I'm still working through IX, and haven't played X, X-2, IV:The after years, the 4 warriors of light, bravely default, VIII, or the remakes of III and IV yet, it's gonna be a while before I replay VII(The remake will probably be out before I'm ready to replay it).

That being said, if Wall Market was dropped from the remake entirely, I don't think I'd care. It doesn't really serve any purpose other then an interlude between the 2nd reactor bombing and the dropping of the plate, it happens really early in a game that goes on for 40 or more hours(and it's before Sepiroth shows up), and I suspect it's not high on most peoples list"awesome moments from FF7 that need to make it into the remake".

 

[Ultress]

I'll agree with the article in that the scene is not overly nasty and it's more Cloud's discomfort played for laughs. Playing through the that part recently it never comes off as hateful, a bit of values dissonance to be sure but nothing really cringe worthy outside of the bath scene.

Should it be removed? Oh hell no,it's a fun little section that adds depth to the characters and the scene where they all threaten to rip his sack off is really funny for poses alone. It could stand to be reworked a tad bit to take out the more homophobic undertones but that's about it.

 

[Orga777]

I can guarantee by this point that the scene isn't going to exist. However, it really isn't that important anyway, so whatever. HOWEVER, since this is a complete remake and not just an HD update, well... I can bet that a lot of the game is going to be completely different. Which is why I will be sticking with the PS1 version till I hear otherwise.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Wasn't it played for laughs? What's wrong with comedy?

 

[Drathnoxis]

I can guarantee by this point that the scene isn't going to exist.

According to Eurogamer, Tetsuya Nomura has said it will be included

"How the new, slightly darker aesthetic sits with some of the crazier elements of the original game remains to be seen, but it seems they'll be intact. Can't wait to see the delicious sight of Cloud in a dress in glorious HD? "Please look forward to it," said Nomura as the interview came to a close."
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-06-17-it-seems-like-final-fantasy-7s-remake-wont-lose-so-much-of-the-crazy

Wasn't it played for laughs? What's wrong with comedy?

Didn't you get the memo? Comedy isn't allowed anymore if there's the possibility that someone might potentially come under the impression that it could have a chance to offend somebody. So next time you think about cracking a joke you better just consider the feelings of the poor mad man person humanoid that could possibly misinterpret your joke and get offended.

EDIT: I'm kind of surprised at the moderation in this thread. I was under the impression that it wasn't against the rules to be rude as long as you were very general or the person you were insulting wasn't a member of this site.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

I remember thinking that the scene was funny, in the same way the I thought Bugs Bunny dressing up as a woman to fool Elmer was funny. I was also a little creeped out about it to be honest. I thought, "Man, I'd never want to dress up in an outfit like that."
And then the threats at the end started. "If you don't tell us, I'll cut them off." "I'll crush them." "I'll smash them." And I laughed.

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

By following the rules, you're guaranteed to make a mediocre product that no one can relate to!

Wasn't it played for laughs? What's wrong with comedy?

Comedy is not allowed anymore. You might offend someone.

 

[Windcaler]

I havnt played the game in years and years but from what I remember Cloud strife isnt a transgender character. Hes male. He was always male. There may be a question surrounding Clouds sexuality (I remember one scene, vaguely, that made me wonder if he was bisexual) but thats a far thing from being transgender

The reason why he snuck into the whorehouse was to...I forget. Talk to the guy in charge maybe? or was it to save Aeris/Tifa? I really dont recall

Regardless the whole scene is about disguise and manipulation. It was never about Cloud struggling with his sexuality and to portray it as that IMO is to do a diservice to both the game and people that really do struggle with gender identity

 

[crimson5pheonix]

The joke, in the case of VII, was Cloud?s (and, by extension, the player?s) sense of discomfort despite there not being any real reason to be uncomfortable in the first place.

Cloud's not transgender, so it makes sense that he would be uncomfortable in a dress. He's presenting a false image of who he is. People tend to be uncomfortable when they lie.

 

[Maximum Bert]

Its fine whats right and wrong particularly in regards to surface political issues such as these change all the time neither is it a wider reflection on society at large. Its just with that group of people in that game.

I always quite liked the change of pace these silly parts had on the game just like the puzzle room later on in the Shinra headquarters. Im not saying it was perfect because nothing is but trying to cater to what is considered correct today will only make it wrong tomorrow.

The author does not say it should be changed however and in that I agree. Everyones is offended by something it seems so no point worrying about it especially here where the games a remake you know what you are getting to a large extent so if you dont like FFVII dont get the remake.

Ill play the remake for what it is however as I will always have the (superb) original game but I would be saddened a little if they did not have scenes like this or if Barret no longer talked like B.A Barracus.

I think the scenes that may have to be changed would be ones like the Dolphin scene as that may look weird but then again it could work and would be equally silly and enjoyable.

 

[SmugFrog]

In theater a thousand years ago that men played the part of the women as well... So what's the big deal? It's still done to this day for either comedy or just because of the character - see, females playing "Peter Pan".

 

[someguy1231]

Newsflash: men who don't normally dress like women will be uncomfortable if circumstances suddenly force them to! This author is basically accusing any man who doesn't like dressing as a woman of being transphobic.

As for the whole thing being played for laughs, laughter at other people's misfortune or discomfort has always been a major part of comedy.

 

[Tilly]

It's an interesting article. I very much dislike the author's attitude that if you dislike something you should petition to change it though. That's far too narcissistic for my liking. If you don't like something, you should either force yourself to experience it anyway to try and strengthen yourself against that reaction OR just don't experience it. But you should keep in mind that you're not the only person in the world. The developers have preferences too and other audience members might enjoy something you don't.
This game is a defining aspect of people's careers and lives. The developers should go with whatever they think is right.