Analyst: EA's Spent $500 Million On The Old Republic

vansau

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Analyst: EA's Spent $500 Million On The Old Republic



Even though everybody knows that The Old Republic cost a lot of money to make, most folks probably didn't think it was that expensive.

In spite of some of its troubles at launch, it's safe to say that <a href=http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Old-Republic-Pc/dp/B001CWXAP2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1326850334&sr=8-1>Star Wars: The Old Republic has been a <a href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/reviews/9347-Star-Wars-The-Old-Republic-Review>pretty rousing success so far. That's certainly good news for Electronic Arts, since this game is <a href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/100967-Star-Wars-The-Old-Republic-is-EAs-Most-Expensive-Project-in-History>reportedly the most expensive the company's ever developed and produced. But how much did the game cost to make? One analyst is claiming that the company's shelled out at somewhere around $500 million.

Speaking to MarketWatch in a profile piece about Electronic Arts CEO John Riccitiello, Doug Creutz of Cowen & Co explained that EA took a substantial risk with The Old Republic:

"I think it's safe to say that the total all-in investment in 'Star Wars' is probably approaching half a billion dollars. EA has minimized its risks as much as it can on this bet, but it's still a risky bet. To the extent that any one game defines his tenure, it's going to be how Star Wars performs."

Of course, EA is keeping mum about how much money it actually spent, so there's no hard data to support this theory. Still, it wouldn't be all that surprising if it turned out to be true: If you're going to make a game that will possibly unseat World of Warcraft, you better go big or go home.

Source: <a href=http://www.marketwatch.com/story/electronic-arts-riccitiello-aims-high-2012-01-17?pagenumber=2>MarketWatch



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Omnific One

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Hey, maybe if this fails and EA gets annoyed, they might try to sell Bioware. And you know a company with a ton of investment capital? Bethesda. That would be a dream come true.
 

Treblaine

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[HEADING=2]The Price of SWTOR is Too Damn High![/HEADING]
That is insane money. Avatar didn't cost that much. And Entire TV season an entire series even doesn't cost that much. That is moving into the are of 'military budgets of small nations' amounts of money. Jesus, that the kind of cash you use building an oil rig or power station.

Mind you. $15 per month, over lets say 4 years. If they average just 3 million users and running costs are included in that $500m estimate then they will make a profit. Barely.
 

vansau

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May 25, 2010
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Well it's all in Angry Joe's hands now, because we all know how expediently Yahtzee gets around to reviewing MMOs.
 

viranimus

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What I find interesting is that we see estimates coming in at half a billion dollars, yet not even a week earlier we saw articles popping up that EA is now quite pleased with ToRs financial performance. Pretty much indicating that EA finds it to be a profitable venture now. With a yard mark of half a billion that somewhat indicates the kind of money they have made thus far and are likely to make quite soon once the first month is over and subscription costs come rolling in.

EDIT: Dont forget the initial 60-80USD for the cost of the game. If there are 2 million subscribers, which server populations sort of hint that there are and 2 million is sort of a low figure for typical triple A titles, your looking at potentially 160 million just from the first day. Then roughly 30k added every month, then the eventual "episodes" or DLC/microtransactions that bioware is likely going to try to sell between expansions and the game if it is able to retain a steady population of 2 million could easily return that in roughly about a years time.
 

isometry

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For a total of $100 million, they could have made 3 cross-platform single-player KoTOR sequels this generation and sold 2-3 million each, easily. That's what Mass Effect sells, so add the star wars license and they could sell 4-5 million copies each across all consoles and PC.

Three games at 2-5 million copies, they'd be looking at at least 300 million to up to a billion in revenue. Skyrim alone made $650 million in revenue at last count, so for 3 KoTOR games we're just trying to get an estimate of what they could have made. After all costs paid, 200 million or more in profits.

We don't have sales data from Origin for SW:TOR, but based on retail it's in the neighborhood of 2 million copies sold. Let's assume they sell 4 million copies (very optimistic), and hang on to an average of 1 million subscribers for 1 year (very optimistic).

Say the average price per copy is, $60, averaging out sale prices with collector's editions, so $60*4 million = 240 million. The subscriptions would be 15*12*1 million = 180 million. So this very optimistic projection puts them at $420 million in revenue.

Without even considering the development costs, and on-going support costs for a huge online game, we're looking at gross revenue of $500 million. If we believe this article, that would put net profits at roughly zero. Compared to net profits of 300 million to 1 billion that three KoTOR sequels would have brought in by now.

As you can see, these numbers add up to a financial disaster. What were they thinking? It's clear that at some point they thought they could bring in 10 million subscribers, that's the only reason they would have made SW:ToR instead of three KoTOR sequels. The game won't shut down of course, but unless they match WoW numbers it's a clear financial failure compared to the games they could have made, without even taking into account this rumored record-breaking budget.
 

Treblaine

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Omnific One said:
Hey, maybe if this fails and EA gets annoyed, they might try to sell Bioware. And you know a company with a ton of investment capital? Bethesda. That would be a dream come true.
The only way you will get Bioware (with its current value) from EA is from their cold dead hands, i.e if the company descends into bankruptcy and is forcibly liquidated and to sell off all their assets before they are shut down.

That, or all the STAFF of Bioware quit in a mass exodus and effectively set up a clone company like Respawn Software from Infinity Ward. Of course if Bioware suddenly forget how to make good games and stop making profit EA might sell, but then it is more likely the studio will be liquidated than sold.
 

razer17

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isometry said:
Say the average price per copy is, $60, averaging out sale prices with collector's editions, so $60*4 million = 240 million. The subscriptions would be 15*12*1 million = 180 million. So this very optimistic projection puts them at $420 million in revenue.

Without even considering the development costs, and on-going support costs for a huge online game, we're looking at gross revenue of $500 million. If we believe this article, that would put net profits at roughly zero. Compared to net profits of 300 million to 1 billion that three KoTOR sequels would have brought in by now.

As you can see, these numbers add up to a financial disaster. What were they thinking? It's clear that at some point they thought they could bring in 10 million subscribers, that's the only reason they would have made SW:ToR instead of three KoTOR sequels. The game won't shut down of course, but unless they match WoW numbers it's a clear financial failure compared to the games they could have made, without even taking into account this rumored record-breaking budget.
I don't think you're right. Firstly I think the financial analysts of EA are probably privy to some much better data than your conjecture. The first KoToR games, whilst popular, weren't that big sales wise.

I've seen some pretty good reviews for this game, and the sales already have been very good. I think what you say are very optimistic sales and subscriptions are actually quite low, especially the subscriptions. This may well be the MMO to finally take away a large chunk of WoW players for a long period of time. Bioware are a company pretty similar in stature to WoW, so they have the developer credibility, plus the advertising budget that EA inevitably has.

I think that a company like EA would only sanction these sort of dev costs if it was almost guaranteed to make money. People are still paying for Conan and Warhammer, which are comparatively flops.

This game will probably continue to sell well for another year at least, with subscriptions levelling out after a while and staying steady, but profitable.
 

glenbruton

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Guys, you do know that this analyst has made this GUESS based on unverified assumptions right ?


Unbelievable figures should not be believed .
 

Sixcess

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If they did spend anywhere close to that kind of money on SWTOR then it's clear that EA wants a WoW killer. They pitched BF3 as going head to head with MW3 so it's entirely in character for them to push SWTOR directly up against WoW.

Which is the biggest risk to the long term success of SWTOR. If it had launched like any other MMO of the last five years it'd be doing fine, but EA had to go big, and that's going to hurt them, because there is no way that SWTOR will ever achieve more than 1-1.5 million subs and hold onto them, and that's being optimistic.

That's what worries me the most about TOR, and it's one of the main reasons I keep following its progress. It may well end up changing the nature of the MMO industry - by scaring away investment money from future projects by other developers if it fails.

And by 'fails' I don't mean if it shuts down. I mean if it doesn't perform to EA's insane expectations, and I don't see how it can.
 

SkeletonGuy

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viranimus said:
EDIT: Dont forget the initial 60-80USD for the cost of the game. If there are 2 million subscribers, which server populations sort of hint that there are and 2 million is sort of a low figure for typical triple A titles, your looking at potentially 160 million just from the first day.
isometry said:
We don't have sales data from Origin for SW:TOR, but based on retail it's in the neighborhood of 2 million copies sold. Let's assume they sell 4 million copies (very optimistic), and hang on to an average of 1 million subscribers for 1 year (very optimistic).

Say the average price per copy is, $60, averaging out sale prices with collector's editions, so $60*4 million = 240 million. The subscriptions would be 15*12*1 million = 180 million. So this very optimistic projection puts them at $420 million in revenue.
Guys that's not how retail revenue works, it's not as simple as calculating how many copies it sold times the cost of every copy. Retailers take a big chunk of that plus taxes plus shipping plus all those things, I have no exact numbers but some analysts say devs and publishers only make like 45% 50% of every retail copy sold

P.S. that estimate number of units sold is absurd considering swtor only has a million subscribers as of now, straight from EA's mouth
 

SkeletonGuy

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Also my bet is they spent most of the money on marketing,seriously the swtor advertising campaign was ridiculous and bigger than any other mmo ever
 

Terminate421

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Treblaine said:

[HEADING=2]The Price of SWTOR is Too Damn High![/HEADING]
That is insane money. Avatar didn't cost that much. And Entire TV season an entire series even doesn't cost that much. That is moving into the are of 'military budgets of small nations' amounts of money. Jesus, that the kind of cash you use building an oil rig or power station.

Mind you. $15 per month, over lets say 4 years. If they average just 3 million users and running costs are included in that $500m estimate then they will make a profit. Barely.
Don't forget that its a sequel to a rather large MMO so....the fans who like it will definitly buy it. Don't forget about newcomers who may be intrigued as well.
 

isometry

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SkeletonGuy said:
viranimus said:
EDIT: Dont forget the initial 60-80USD for the cost of the game. If there are 2 million subscribers, which server populations sort of hint that there are and 2 million is sort of a low figure for typical triple A titles, your looking at potentially 160 million just from the first day.
isometry said:
We don't have sales data from Origin for SW:TOR, but based on retail it's in the neighborhood of 2 million copies sold. Let's assume they sell 4 million copies (very optimistic), and hang on to an average of 1 million subscribers for 1 year (very optimistic).

Say the average price per copy is, $60, averaging out sale prices with collector's editions, so $60*4 million = 240 million. The subscriptions would be 15*12*1 million = 180 million. So this very optimistic projection puts them at $420 million in revenue.
Guys that's not how retail revenue works, it's not as simple as calculating how many copies it sold times the cost of every copy. Retailers take a big chunk of that plus taxes plus shipping plus all those things, I have no exact numbers but some analysts say devs and publishers only make like 45% 50% of every retail copy sold

P.S. that estimate number of units sold is absurd considering swtor only has a million subscribers as of now, straight from EA's mouth
I completely agree with you. The way I calculated the revenue was very optimistic in EA's favor, because I wanted an upper bound on the revenue. In other words, even with the over-estimates they would be lucky to make $420 million gross profit after 1 year.

Also Skyrim gross revenue of $650 million is not my calculation, it's a direct quote from Bethesda.

http://gamingbolt.com/skyrim-ships-10-million-650-million-in-revenue-and-becomes-the-fastest-selling-game-in-steam-history

razer17 said:
isometry said:
Say the average price per copy is, $60, averaging out sale prices with collector's editions, so $60*4 million = 240 million. The subscriptions would be 15*12*1 million = 180 million. So this very optimistic projection puts them at $420 million in revenue.

Without even considering the development costs, and on-going support costs for a huge online game, we're looking at gross revenue of $500 million. If we believe this article, that would put net profits at roughly zero. Compared to net profits of 300 million to 1 billion that three KoTOR sequels would have brought in by now.

As you can see, these numbers add up to a financial disaster. What were they thinking? It's clear that at some point they thought they could bring in 10 million subscribers, that's the only reason they would have made SW:ToR instead of three KoTOR sequels. The game won't shut down of course, but unless they match WoW numbers it's a clear financial failure compared to the games they could have made, without even taking into account this rumored record-breaking budget.
I don't think you're right. Firstly I think the financial analysts of EA are probably privy to some much better data than your conjecture. The first KoToR games, whilst popular, weren't that big sales wise.

I've seen some pretty good reviews for this game, and the sales already have been very good. I think what you say are very optimistic sales and subscriptions are actually quite low, especially the subscriptions. This may well be the MMO to finally take away a large chunk of WoW players for a long period of time. Bioware are a company pretty similar in stature to WoW, so they have the developer credibility, plus the advertising budget that EA inevitably has.

I think that a company like EA would only sanction these sort of dev costs if it was almost guaranteed to make money. People are still paying for Conan and Warhammer, which are comparatively flops.

This game will probably continue to sell well for another year at least, with subscriptions levelling out after a while and staying steady, but profitable.
I agree that the original KoTOR games did not sell that well, 2 million on Xbox for KotoR 1, and 1.6 million on Xbox for KoTOR 2. PC retail sales were almost non-existent, less than 100k.

Still, the games had/has a great reputation, and during a steam sale last year I saw KoTOR 1 on the best selling list (in 2011!). I arrived at my 2-5 million per KoTOR sequel estimate based on Mass Effect quality + great license (Force Unleashed sold 6 million copies).

As for Bioware's reputation compared to Blizzard. First, understand I'm no WoW fan, I don't care for the setting/genre/style of Warcraft. But I did play Diablo in the 1990s, enough to know that Blizzard had the best selling addictive-repetitive online loot ladder before WoW even existed. In comparison, I've never heard of Bioware's games being described as addictive for months at a time.

I don't think the game will have trouble breaking even (I'm sure it's budget is less than the 500 million in this article). But this is Star Wars, and Bioware, they may pretend to be satisfied with breaking even but for hot properties like these it's a failure. If you expect your investment to do 20% per year and it "breaks even" i.e. 0% that's a major failure.
 

Pebkio

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500 mil for a game that is almost, but not quite, exactly like WoW. I mean, I was watching a friend play, and I saw him take a gryphon land-speeder ride that acted a lot like riding a land-speeder gryphon.

Still, if you want to unseat WoW, I guess you make a game exactly like it, but just make it Star Wars instead.
 

Aiddon_v1legacy

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I could understand that if it includes marketing. Bioware is a big name in the gaming industry and Star Wars is one of the biggest cultural names of all time, so I can see this game finding its niche and carving out a reputable profit.
 

Sylveria

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viranimus said:
then the eventual "episodes" or DLC/microtransactions that bioware is likely going to try to sell between expansions and
I won't comment on the quality of the game, but right there is one of the core reasons I'm waiting a while before I buy it. If I'm dropping $15 a month on the game, I shouldn't be paying extra for new content. That $15 a month is my pre-payment for new content, otherwise what am I paying for? To keep accessing a game I already paid full price to purchase?

When it boils down to it, BioWare is EA's ***** now and I can easily see them charging you extra for content on top of your subscription fee. Hopefully I'm wrong, cause microtransactions for actual content in a game that already has a monthly subscription fee is not going to go over well even for a game as big as SWTOR, and it could easily send people back to WoW.
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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I read $500 million and my right eyebrow shot up so high it flew right off my face.

It will be years before they make their money back, if at all. Right now all the servers are based in America yeah and they have said that anywhere outside will have lag issues? Do they really expect America's 300 million population to buy 1.5 copies each? To say nothing about the subscription fees.
 

Carnagath

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008Zulu said:
Right now all the servers are based in America
Wait, what? Is that a fact? Wait... They spent half a billion on a MMO and they have no regional servers? Hahahahaha. Oh, wow.
 

ThreeWords

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Treblaine said:
That is moving into the are of 'military budgets of small nations' amounts of money. Jesus, that the kind of cash you use building an oil rig or power station.
My evil-MegaCorp [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MegaCorp] light is flashing. This could be an interesting few years...
 

Amnestic

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vansau said:
Of course, EA is keeping mum about how much money it actually spent, so there's no hard data to support this theory.
Well it's nice to see we're reporting unsubstantiated numbers as news, I guess.

Bloody hell, being an analyst is easy.

Step 1) Take a commonly held gaming fact (Lots of money was spent on TOR)
Step 2) Attach an inflated number with no hard evidence for it ($500 million? THAT'S A LOT OF MILLIONS!)
Step 3) Profit, I guess.



Earlier today, noted video game analyst Amnestic issued a statement that Activision-Blizzard has spent over $300 million on advertising for the upcoming StarCraft 2: Heart of the Swarm expansion in South Korea alone. While noted video game analyst Amnestic (who is also handsome and has excellent stamina in the bedroom) did not provide any backup for the numbers, if they're true, then that's a lot of money that's being spent!

Analyst Guy said:
I think it's safe to say that the total all-in investment in 'Star Wars' is probably approaching half a billion dollars.
Analyst Guy seems pretty sure of himself. Did he bother to share his workings on how he came to the conclusion at all? Judging by the article that was linked...no, no he did not.
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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Carnagath said:
008Zulu said:
Right now all the servers are based in America
Wait, what? Is that a fact? Wait... They spent half a billion on a MMO and they have no regional servers? Hahahahaha. Oh, wow.
Before the game launched, they said that people in other countries would experience lag issues due to the locations of the servers. Particularly those in the Pacific rim (Asia, Australia, etc)

-O.K, now Captcha is putting Chinese characters in to it's text puzzles-
 

Carnagath

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008Zulu said:
Carnagath said:
008Zulu said:
Right now all the servers are based in America
Wait, what? Is that a fact? Wait... They spent half a billion on a MMO and they have no regional servers? Hahahahaha. Oh, wow.
Before the game launched, they said that people in other countries would experience lag issues due to the locations of the servers. Particularly those in the Pacific rim (Asia, Australia, etc)
How does that make any sort of sense? Even F2P Korean MMO's have Asian, European and American servers, and TOR doesn't? And people from Europe actually bought this game and are playing with 300-500 ms? (that was my latency when I was playing WoW beta on the US beta servers). This just blows my mind. That's like spending half a nation's budget to build the biggest spaceship ever made, but fueling it with twigs and toilet paper. Oh, EA.
 

mdqp

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IT'S (WAY) OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAND!!!! (sorry, I had to write it, since no one else did it already)

Seriously, though, it seems too big of a number for it to be true. I am not saying that development and advertising didn't cost a lot of money, but it would be really hard to break even, and taking such a risk sounds weird, considering it's EA we are talking about (maybe I am biased, but I see EA as a company who would NEVER take such risks...). Does anyone knows the numbers for other MMOs that tried to be the next WOW, to use as a reference?
 

Darth_Dude

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I don't believe this number at all, this so-called analyst pulled this straight out of his ass...
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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Carnagath said:
How does that make any sort of sense? Even F2P Korean MMO's have Asian, European and American servers, and TOR doesn't? And people from Europe actually bought this game and are playing with 300-500 ms? (that was my latency when I was playing WoW beta on the US beta servers). This just blows my mind. That's like spending half a nation's budget to build the biggest spaceship ever made, but fueling it with twigs and toilet paper. Oh, EA.
I can't even find it for sale here in Australia; EB, JB and Game all came up empty. If they threw up a few region servers then they might, might, break even in a few years. Otherwise it will be at least 10 years minimum and by then they new MMOs will be in full swing and ToR will have been long forgotten.
 

vansau

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Nothing about TOR looks like a 500 million dollar game. On WoW, over ten years of development, Blizzard hasn't yet spent 200 million. What did they spend it on, voice actors?
 

Hoplon

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Hammeroj said:
Nothing about TOR looks like a 500 million dollar game. On WoW, over ten years of development, Blizzard hasn't yet spent 200 million. What did they spend it on, voice actors?
Blizzard only passed 100 mill last year in costs for wow.

Another "analyst" pulling numbers from his ass, most expensive game for EA is a non information statement since no one knows how much they have spent on games, £50 million is probably pushing in to the very very high numbers for a game.
 

Nimcha

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Carnagath said:
008Zulu said:
Right now all the servers are based in America
Wait, what? Is that a fact? Wait... They spent half a billion on a MMO and they have no regional servers? Hahahahaha. Oh, wow.
Nope, not true. The European servers are actually in Europe and have no lag due to regional issues.
 

BrotherRool

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500 million/2 million subscribers =$250 = what? £140... hmmm I guess if they can keep their subscriber base stable that'd begin edging into profit territory surprisingly quickly
 

vansau

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Hoplon said:
Hammeroj said:
Nothing about TOR looks like a 500 million dollar game. On WoW, over ten years of development, Blizzard hasn't yet spent 200 million. What did they spend it on, voice actors?
Blizzard only passed 100 mill last year in costs for wow.

Another "analyst" pulling numbers from his ass, most expensive game for EA is a non information statement since no one knows how much they have spent on games, £50 million is probably pushing in to the very very high numbers for a game.
Not last year, the summer of 2010. :p

But yeah, the numbers are pulled out of someone's ass is what I meant. Have been all along. Unless someone can point to me where a budget over 3 times larger (which was used up over 3 times faster) was spent?
 

Combustion Kevin

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Omnific One said:
Hey, maybe if this fails and EA gets annoyed, they might try to sell Bioware. And you know a company with a ton of investment capital? Bethesda. That would be a dream come true.
you kidding me?
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Valve.
 

Something Amyss

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I'd like to know how he got to those numbers.

DVS BSTrD said:
Well it's all in Angry Joe's hands now, because we all know how expediently Yahtzee gets around to reviewing MMOs.
Yeah, the fanboy praise he will give this title will likely help subsidise EA for a while.
 

mad825

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BrotherRool said:
500 million/2 million subscribers =$250 = what? £140... hmmm I guess if they can keep their subscriber base stable that'd begin edging into profit territory surprisingly quickly
Maybe. You forgot one thing, the supposed $500 million is a starting cost. What's the actual running cost SWTOR?
 

Frostbite3789

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Sylveria said:
viranimus said:
then the eventual "episodes" or DLC/microtransactions that bioware is likely going to try to sell between expansions and
I won't comment on the quality of the game, but right there is one of the core reasons I'm waiting a while before I buy it. If I'm dropping $15 a month on the game, I shouldn't be paying extra for new content. That $15 a month is my pre-payment for new content, otherwise what am I paying for? To keep accessing a game I already paid full price to purchase?

When it boils down to it, BioWare is EA's ***** now and I can easily see them charging you extra for content on top of your subscription fee. Hopefully I'm wrong, cause microtransactions for actual content in a game that already has a monthly subscription fee is not going to go over well even for a game as big as SWTOR, and it could easily send people back to WoW.
Because WoW has never charged for extra content on top of the sub fee, right?

Except for those mounts that costed almost 100% more than the sub fee. Pets that cost $10. And the race changes, server changes and faction changes.
 

TheDooD

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EA you need to fire your publicist and kill ya accounts because if a game is ran up a 500 MILLION dollar bill wouldn't that red flag months before release. SWTOR is a great game don't get me wrong it makes the movies look bad once again and I hope it really kicks blizzard in the nuts. Yet 500 mil stop lying because we aren't gonna buy the rest of your games now that this is out.
 

FieryTrainwreck

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I'm sure the $500 million figure is exaggerated, but I'm positive the total running tally is north of $300 million. For what ended up being a complete WoW clone (only buggier) with the (by now) tired old Bioware dialogue/narrative bolted to the side, that seems like way, way, way too much money.

By the way, it's fucking funny as hell that they spent ridiculous amounts of time and resources on voice acting for hundreds of NPCs... and then clearly scraped the bottom of the barrel for writers. Yes, everyone is fully voiced. Shame they're all saying such stupid shit.
 

Baresark

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Weird... and EA lost $500 Million dollars while Steam made $1 Billion last year. It's all starting to make sense now....

FieryTrainwreck said:
I'm sure the $500 million figure is exaggerated, but I'm positive the total running tally is north of $300 million. For what ended up being a complete WoW clone (only buggier) with the (by now) tired old Bioware dialogue/narrative bolted to the side, that seems like way, way, way too much money.

By the way, it's fucking funny as hell that they spent ridiculous amounts of time and resources on voice acting for hundreds of NPCs... and then clearly scraped the bottom of the barrel for writers. Yes, everyone is fully voiced. Shame they're all saying such stupid shit.
The fully voiced thing was what annoyed me for a while, till I figured out you could turn on subtitles. As it turns out, I read way faster than people speak, who would have guessed it. The menus of any MMO tend to be a mess. I too find it funny they spent so much for a clone. But it should be mentioned that they were not trying to make an innovative game, but to make a game as accessible as WoW, but with Star Wars IP.
 

Baresark

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Zachary Amaranth said:
I'd like to know how he got to those numbers.
Same way they all do, he made them up. He looked at production time and manpower, then used a random multiplier and said what his opinion is as stated fact. They all do it, it's sickening because people listen to guys like this.
 

Omnific One

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Combustion Kevin said:
Omnific One said:
Hey, maybe if this fails and EA gets annoyed, they might try to sell Bioware. And you know a company with a ton of investment capital? Bethesda. That would be a dream come true.
you kidding me?
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Valve.
I just want to see a collab, like open world ME.
 

Omnific One

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Treblaine said:
Omnific One said:
Hey, maybe if this fails and EA gets annoyed, they might try to sell Bioware. And you know a company with a ton of investment capital? Bethesda. That would be a dream come true.
The only way you will get Bioware (with its current value) from EA is from their cold dead hands, i.e if the company descends into bankruptcy an is forcibly liquidated and to sell off all their assets before they are shut down.

That, or all the STAFF of Bioware quit in a mass exodus and effectively set up a clone company like Respawn Software from Infinity Ward. O of course Boware suddenly forget how to make good games, stop making profit but then it is more likely the studio will be liquidated than sold.
Well, obviously, but I'm just looking at more unlikely scenarios here.
 

ASnogarD

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Most of that money must of been on the voice actors, executive payrises and the launch party... because the engine is cheap, the graphics is cheap , the mechanics in the game are cheap... and I bet Lucasarts gave them the audio package for a decent price.

If it wasnt for the voice acting and Star Wars trimmings, it would of been even lower than a generic F2P Asian MMO in terms of technical and quality asthetics.
 

cynicalsaint1

Salvation a la Mode
Apr 1, 2010
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fi6eka said:
I wonder how many Bothans died to bring us this information.
NONE!
Because its not actual information - just some "analyst" pulling a number out of his ass, to make the shit he was saying sound impressive.
 

Von Strimmer

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008Zulu said:
I can't even find it for sale here in Australia; EB, JB and Game all came up empty. If they threw up a few region servers then they might, might, break even in a few years. Otherwise it will be at least 10 years minimum and by then they new MMOs will be in full swing and ToR will have been long forgotten.
Is it even out down under yet? I thought they weren't kick starting it until later on in the year for Aus. I havent seen it around either.
 

tehroc

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Sylveria said:
viranimus said:
then the eventual "episodes" or DLC/microtransactions that bioware is likely going to try to sell between expansions and
I won't comment on the quality of the game, but right there is one of the core reasons I'm waiting a while before I buy it. If I'm dropping $15 a month on the game, I shouldn't be paying extra for new content. That $15 a month is my pre-payment for new content, otherwise what am I paying for? To keep accessing a game I already paid full price to purchase?
Well SWTOR is getting new content at no extra charge today (technically I haven't paid a sub fee yet) only a month after release, if that puts your mind at ease. Eventually some kind of shop will open though for sales. Blizzard's biggest cash cow is selling mounts, character transfers, etc not subscription fees.
 

Durgiun

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Orks da best said:
Durgiun said:
Please let it fail, please let it fail, please let it fail.
what ye want swtor to flop. you do know what would happen if it did right?
I'm guessing a lot of people at EA and BioWare would be fired? I dunno, I'm not a businessman.
 

vansau

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May 25, 2010
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This is why I hate gaming journalism, this is not news, this isn't even factual, yet it's being reported on like it is.


Shame on you Escapist, for reporting garbage like this, with a misleading title to get fucking page views.
 

Orks da best

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Durgiun said:
Orks da best said:
Durgiun said:
Please let it fail, please let it fail, please let it fail.
what ye want swtor to flop. you do know what would happen if it did right?
I'm guessing a lot of people at EA and BioWare would be fired? I dunno, I'm not a businessman.
It would also lead to further stagnation in the mmo industy, and likly in other parts too. and do we want further stagnation?
 

LetalisK

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Some retarded analyst pulls numbers out of his ass and people start taking it as gospel.

Jesus Christ. >.<
 

Zing

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Is it bad that I actually feel joy knowing that SWTOR is going to fail within a few months because it's a carbon copy of WoW with no/the worst end game I've ever seen?

Well fuck it, I don't feel bad. MMO developers need to get their head out and gain some fucking innovation and creativity.

Also EA suck.

Orks da best said:
Durgiun said:
Orks da best said:
Durgiun said:
Please let it fail, please let it fail, please let it fail.
what ye want swtor to flop. you do know what would happen if it did right?
I'm guessing a lot of people at EA and BioWare would be fired? I dunno, I'm not a businessman.
It would also lead to further stagnation in the mmo industy, and likly in other parts too. and do we want further stagnation?
What? It would do exactly the opposite of that. If a game like SWTOR, which is a bad WoW clone with a story attached, fails, it's going to send a clear message that players are sick of devs trying to recreate WoW. SWTOR is the very incarnation of stagnation in the MMO industry, just because it has voice chat 1-50 does not make it a good MMO.

MMOs live or die on end game, SWTOR will die.

edit: Hahaha, wtf? Did The Escapist just cite their own review as proof that the game is a success? Success out the gate does not mean anything for an MMO.
 

cieply

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Treblaine said:
Omnific One said:
Hey, maybe if this fails and EA gets annoyed, they might try to sell Bioware. And you know a company with a ton of investment capital? Bethesda. That would be a dream come true.
The only way you will get Bioware (with its current value) from EA is from their cold dead hands, i.e if the company descends into bankruptcy and is forcibly liquidated and to sell off all their assets before they are shut down.

That, or all the STAFF of Bioware quit in a mass exodus and effectively set up a clone company like Respawn Software from Infinity Ward. Of course if Bioware suddenly forget how to make good games and stop making profit EA might sell, but then it is more likely the studio will be liquidated than sold.
You are aware that according to their financial report EA failed to generate profit for several consecutive years (at their lowest point, their loses were 25% bigger than their revenue)? Since the release of TOR and, despite of what all the paid reviews say (I will never forgive escapist Dragon Age 2 blunder and nighter should you), poor reception and tons of bugs, stocks of EA plummeted to the ground. Right now their executives are selling their own stock in EA en masse. Just interesting facts worth knowing.

I have no idea how escapist can say that this game has a positive lunch with statistics showing 30-40% drop in players during the FREE month (http://www.swtorarena.com/statistics/)
 

BrotherRool

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mad825 said:
BrotherRool said:
500 million/2 million subscribers =$250 = what? £140... hmmm I guess if they can keep their subscriber base stable that'd begin edging into profit territory surprisingly quickly
Maybe. You forgot one thing, the supposed $500 million is a starting cost. What's the actual running cost SWTOR?
I actually didn't forget that, $500 million is all the wages of every person required to design and build a game from the ground up over multiple years. Lets say it took 4 years (it was first revealed to the public in 2008), then that's 125 million per year to fund everything from the ground up. You're only going to need a fraction of the staff to keep the gaming running than actually, you know build it. (For example, WoW's total upkeep over the 8 years it's been running is only $200 million, that's 25 million a year for a game with 5 times as many subscribers).

Now it costs $60 to buy TOR (ish) so they've already made $120 million of the base cost. So paid off a year of building the game. The monthly fee is $14,, which is $168 a year. $168 a year times two million is $336 million a year, which is already twice that of our way way way overestimated maintaining fee. If running the game costs a tenth of building it, it's 12.5 mill a year to run versus 336 mil profit. So every year they run the game, they pay off two and half years of building it. Ish

I hadn't done all these calculations before, so thanks for challenging me, but they turned out pretty much the way I'd assumed
 

SkeletonGuy

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You guys underestimate how much marketing costs, just to refresh your memories microsoft spent 500 million dollaroos only advertising the kinect, and now EA is pulling the same kind of times square stunts and a commercial every 5 seconds on spike tv.

The actual dev costs might not be even a fraction of that, maybe pachter wasn't so far off when he said dev costs might only be $80m then they spent the rest on marketing

P.S. I think if this game fails it won't be a good thing since up to 300 people could lose their jobs but I don't want it to succeed, maybe if it does badly we won't see more WoW clones and no more franchise cash-ins, I don't want an assassins creed mmo or an elder scrolls mmo or any crap like that
 

Me55enger

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I believe RTW took this calibre of risk with APB.

And that is a game that deserves infinately more than Star Wars: Taken Orally, Rectum.
 

Me55enger

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Zing said:
MMO developers need to get their head out and gain some fucking innovation and creativity.
Saw this after I posted.

You sir, are the making of a legend.

As a game genre so reliant on the devotion of time from its fanbase, whoever wants to dethrone WoW needs creativity and innovation.

Top marks there.
 

vansau

Mortician of Love
May 25, 2010
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Treblaine said:
Omnific One said:
Hey, maybe if this fails and EA gets annoyed, they might try to sell Bioware. And you know a company with a ton of investment capital? Bethesda. That would be a dream come true.
The only way you will get Bioware (with its current value) from EA is from their cold dead hands, i.e if the company descends into bankruptcy and is forcibly liquidated and to sell off all their assets before they are shut down.
Everyone refusing to buy and play the $500 million costing SW:TOR would be a step in the right direction.
 

Genixma

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I think the only thing I am worried about is that the title reads "EA's spend $500 Million on The Old Republic." why I am worried about it? I expected it to say "And it shows" o_o But it seems it doesn't.
 

esperandote

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15dlls a month by 3,000,000 users a month by 12 months a year = profit in less than a year
 

flaviok79

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Well, I love Bioware and hope the game succeed's. If it comes to consoles, I'll buy it. But such inflated budgets for games attached to movies' franchises bring to my memory the Atari-ET fiasco that caused the entire videogame industry to crash in the early 80's.
 

Durgiun

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Orks da best said:
Durgiun said:
Orks da best said:
Durgiun said:
Please let it fail, please let it fail, please let it fail.
what ye want swtor to flop. you do know what would happen if it did right?
I'm guessing a lot of people at EA and BioWare would be fired? I dunno, I'm not a businessman.
It would also lead to further stagnation in the mmo industy, and likly in other parts too. and do we want further stagnation?
Point well taken, but I honestly don't give a rat's about MMOs.
 

Ukomba

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What makes this annalist any more credible than the dozen other annalists? Most of the others were predicting a price tag around 300 million. So unless this guy wants to show some hard numbers some where, I see no reason to believe he's correct. To quote Al Gore:

"Two thousand scientists, in a hundred countries, engaged in the most elaborate, well organized scientific collaboration in the history of humankind, have produced long-since a consensus that" SWTOR cost 300 Million to make.

But then, big numbers make headlines. How long until an annalist shows up prediction 700 Million?
 

Treblaine

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cieply said:
Treblaine said:
Omnific One said:
Hey, maybe if this fails and EA gets annoyed, they might try to sell Bioware. And you know a company with a ton of investment capital? Bethesda. That would be a dream come true.
The only way you will get Bioware (with its current value) from EA is from their cold dead hands, i.e if the company descends into bankruptcy and is forcibly liquidated and to sell off all their assets before they are shut down.

That, or all the STAFF of Bioware quit in a mass exodus and effectively set up a clone company like Respawn Software from Infinity Ward. Of course if Bioware suddenly forget how to make good games and stop making profit EA might sell, but then it is more likely the studio will be liquidated than sold.
You are aware that according to their financial report EA failed to generate profit for several consecutive years (at their lowest point, their loses were 25% bigger than their revenue)? Since the release of TOR and, despite of what all the paid reviews say (I will never forgive escapist Dragon Age 2 blunder and nighter should you), poor reception and tons of bugs, stocks of EA plummeted to the ground. Right now their executives are selling their own stock in EA en masse. Just interesting facts worth knowing.

I have no idea how escapist can say that this game has a positive lunch with statistics showing 30-40% drop in players during the FREE month (http://www.swtorarena.com/statistics/)
Well, as much as I'd like to pop a bottle of champagne and cheer the vanquishing of the EAvil Empire, but I'm afraid I've seen companies go as long as a decade making losses but staying alive by various "too big to fail" tricks and loans and conniving. They could go busto, but they ain't gone till the bailiffs arrive to strip their offices of any valuable furniture.

I want EA gone because of Origin and I know they are too proud to ever back down, they will keep up their bullshit until we relent and they get their evil way with their endorsed spyware. They
 

Treblaine

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Peuter said:
Treblaine said:
Omnific One said:
Hey, maybe if this fails and EA gets annoyed, they might try to sell Bioware. And you know a company with a ton of investment capital? Bethesda. That would be a dream come true.
The only way you will get Bioware (with its current value) from EA is from their cold dead hands, i.e if the company descends into bankruptcy and is forcibly liquidated and to sell off all their assets before they are shut down.
Everyone refusing to buy and play the $500 million costing SW:TOR would be a step in the right direction.


If it bleeds (money) we can kill it

Awesomeness ==> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlicWUDf5MM <== Awesomeness
 

Ironic Pirate

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008Zulu said:
I read $500 million and my right eyebrow shot up so high it flew right off my face.

It will be years before they make their money back, if at all. Right now all the servers are based in America yeah and they have said that anywhere outside will have lag issues? Do they really expect America's 300 million population to buy 1.5 copies each? To say nothing about the subscription fees.
Wait, does the game only cost a dollar? Otherwise your math is a bit... off.

Anyway, notice that an Analyst said this? Michael Pachter is an analyst. That's the level of accuracy we're dealing with here.
 

Darth Sea Bass

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And that sum is probably the reason we can't have nice things like a single player only Mass Effect 3!
 

Sonic Doctor

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isometry said:
Your speculating numbers are way too low.

You immediately give it a huge drop off of 1 million of it's subscribers disappearing. Which, considering the reviews and full reception of the game, I'm easily willing to accept that it won't go under 2 million for at least a year. But, you also don't look at the period that should be coming in the next few months, as with most every MMO, they will start offering free trials. I seriously believe that in the first few months they can gain at least 3 million free trial players, and at least hold 1.5 million of them maybe even more as subscribers.

So by the end of the year, we are looking at at least 3.5 million subscribers. But, it rather short sighted to only look at one years time. TOR is built to last and last as long as WoW has. I'll cut it down a bit and say the game keeps steady for 5 years.

Let's say, and it isn't that out there to say it, that after this year, TOR holds onto at least 3.5 million subscribers for another year. Do the math:

3,500,000 X 15 = 52,500,000 in one month. 52.5 mil X 12 = 630,000,000 for that year. Now I'm not even counting the purchasing of the game over the first year. Let's estimate that every one of that 3.5 mil buy the game at the 60 dollar cost. 3.5 mil X 60 = 210,000,000. Now on top of that, I'll add in what I speculate they will make on subscriptions as the game grows before the end of this first year: My speculation is at least 400 million and having at least 3.5 million players by the end of the year and holding that number for at least the next year.

So adding up those two years, we are looking at (first year with subs + game buys) 610 million, adding the 630 million from the second year of subs, that is 1.24 billion dollars in just two years alone, with possibly a plus or minus at least 200 million as a safe margin for error estimation. Now if it stays that stable for another 3 years, tack on another 1.89 billion to the number.

That is just 5 years, a safe estimate of 3.13 billion. Now, lets compare that to my estimates of three regular cross platform KotOR games, using your numbers. Now let's give BioWare and EA the benefit of the doubt and say they properly develop each KotOR game and each game has a development cycle of at least two years for each game. Let's say as you said, they only spend 100 mil on each game for production, that's 300 mil, but I'll also count in the advertising for the games, I'll be stingy on that and say they only spend 50 mil on advertising for each game. So in total over 6 years they would have spent 450 million on the three games. Now lets say that each game only gets 3 mil copies sold each, subtracting some from what TOR makes in box sales, because single player KotOR games would lose a portion of the demographic that TOR hits.

So total over three games 9 mil copies sold multiplied by 60 dollars for each copy, that equals 540,000,000. Subtract 450 mil, and you are looking at only a 90 mil profit over 6 years. That isn't much, so let's give them a positive handicap, and say that some how the games sell 3 mill on each platform, PC, 360, and PS3. That is now a 270 million dollar profit.

Now, let's look at TOR profit margin over 6 years, speculating another good 3.5 million subscriber year, for a number of 3.76 billion over 6 years. Now lets give them a high yearly run cost of 100 mil a year, so 600 mil added to the original 500 mil, that is 1.1 billion in expenses over 6 years. So in the end by my calculations, TOR would have a profit of 2.66 billion over those 6 years. That way over shines three cross platform KotOR games over six years.

Now, I'll be even more generous to the 3 KotOR games and give TOR a negative handicap from my estimation and say what if they only make half of my estimated profits, and they only make 1.33 billion, well that still would mean that TOR would out shine those 3 KotOR games by just barely under 5 times the profit. Basically that half estimate would be a player base of only 1.75 million each year. Which isn't far off from your yearly of only 1 million.

The thing that makes your calculation too small, is that you are not thinking of the demographics that TOR hits, it hits more demographics than WoW.

WoW reaches the demographics of only Warcraft fans, MMO fans, Fantasy game fans, and Fantasy fans in general.

TOR reaches the demographics, Star Wars fans in general(vast in numbers compared to original Warcraft fans), Star Wars game fans(considering there is a larger SW game base than Warcraft game base, that means there is a bigger fan base for SW games), MMO fans, Sci-fi game fans, and Sci-fi fans in general. TOR only hits one more demographic than WoW, but since Star Wars far out shines WoW in shear number of fans, since Star Wars is way more iconic and known in history compared to WoW, the possible player base for TOR actually reaches higher than WoW's 12 million subscriber record. I'm willing to safely bet that TOR's possible player base is some where in the 60 million range each year. Of course it won't reach that as an all at once record, but with typical player adding and losing by only a WoW standard, I could safely say that TOR could possibly beat WoW's yearly subscriber record by at least a couple million.

EA/BioWare will have no problem making a decent or even better profit with TOR.
 

Vampire cat

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Apr 21, 2010
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If it cost 1/10 of this figure... It still wasn't worth it. One of my favorite universes to make a game out of, it wouldn't take much to have me banging at the door for a copy. The combat is dull and looks shit... No really, for a game THIS expensive you'd expect good looking combat! They even say in hteir "combat" trailer (it's on Youtube) that they wanted to take all those cool moves from the movies and put them into the game so that combat would look great, but it doesn't! None of the attacks seem to blend any better than WoW's combat does, which is also not a very good looking or engaging game in terms of actual gameplay. The story and quests may well be great, but that only gets me half way...

Engaging and good looking combat is possible. Heck, copying the combat from the old Jedi Academy games would almost cut it in a modern game with some polishing, and that's my aboslute favorite kind of combat system, where you make your attacks based on active key combinations rather than tapping your skills bar and waiting for the character to execute their moves.

So your left trying to roleplay in the middle of loads of running and jumping morons that there is no way around becuase this game doesn't have a single player / coop mode... Or does it? Is there one hidden somewhere, is there some way to unlock it? Oh please god, let there be...
 
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Haters in this thread be hatin' all up on SWTOR. I love this game, I find its going to be bigger then people say I quit WoW for it because guys seriously? your going to call this a horrible WoW clone? have you even played the game? hell, have you even played WoW. becuase I have, I have since burning crusade and SWTOR is an improvement of WoW in many ways. The majority of SWTOR haters right now are people who dont want to give up on their world of warcraft they spent so much time in and are wary of the direction its going in (pokemon and pandas) and are spewing their hate on a MMO thats doing well to try and reassure yourselves.

for me im never going back. not to warcraft.
 

ThunderCavalier

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Well...

I honestly hope that this doesn't bomb, just because I have a liking for some of EA's games and for BioWare in general, and I'm afraid that this might cause some damage to them if this fails.

At the same time, though, I honestly do not care whatsoever for MMOs, so...
 

vansau

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May 25, 2010
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ThunderCavalier said:
Well...

I honestly hope that this doesn't bomb, just because I have a liking for some of EA's games and for BioWare in general, and I'm afraid that this might cause some damage to them if this fails.

At the same time, though, I honestly do not care whatsoever for MMOs, so...
-some- Damage? EA would be sitting next to interplay if this fails.

Spending 500 million? That is FIVE GTA IVs on an MMO. Its a demographic that fails on the same rate as RESTAURANTS. Its blatantly irresponsible. For that amount of money, they could have made exactly 25 AAA games at maximum with that kind of money.

EA is repeating the same mistake interplay made over 10 years ago with Fallout: Brotherhood of steel. If this flops, EA will be practically cut off at the knee and Bioware would literally be gone the way of Black isle.
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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Ironic Pirate said:
Wait, does the game only cost a dollar? Otherwise your math is a bit... off.

Anyway, notice that an Analyst said this? Michael Pachter is an analyst. That's the level of accuracy we're dealing with here.
It would seem my maths is as good as his. Mine could be better actually, analysts tend to blow things out of proportion somewhat.
 

Strazdas

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May 28, 2011
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If you're going to make a game that will possibly unseat World of Warcraft, you better go big or go home.
League of Legends have already unseated World of Warcraft. SWOTR while rising quick havent breaten either yet.
Money wont be a problem for EA if it fails. they are cashing in tons with NFS clone stamping.
 

draythefingerless

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Strazdas said:
If you're going to make a game that will possibly unseat World of Warcraft, you better go big or go home.
League of Legends have already unseated World of Warcraft. SWOTR while rising quick havent breaten either yet.
Money wont be a problem for EA if it fails. they are cashing in tons with NFS clone stamping.
by that logic, modern warfare beat WoW years ago...
 
May 29, 2011
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500 million my ass. It's probably
isometry said:
For a total of $100 million, they could have made 3 cross-platform single-player KoTOR sequels this generation and sold 2-3 million each, easily. That's what Mass Effect sells, so add the star wars license and they could sell 4-5 million copies each across all consoles and PC.

Three games at 2-5 million copies, they'd be looking at at least 300 million to up to a billion in revenue. Skyrim alone made $650 million in revenue at last count, so for 3 KoTOR games we're just trying to get an estimate of what they could have made. After all costs paid, 200 million or more in profits.

We don't have sales data from Origin for SW:TOR, but based on retail it's in the neighborhood of 2 million copies sold. Let's assume they sell 4 million copies (very optimistic), and hang on to an average of 1 million subscribers for 1 year (very optimistic).

Say the average price per copy is, $60, averaging out sale prices with collector's editions, so $60*4 million = 240 million. The subscriptions would be 15*12*1 million = 180 million. So this very optimistic projection puts them at $420 million in revenue.

Without even considering the development costs, and on-going support costs for a huge online game, we're looking at gross revenue of $500 million. If we believe this article, that would put net profits at roughly zero. Compared to net profits of 300 million to 1 billion that three KoTOR sequels would have brought in by now.

As you can see, these numbers add up to a financial disaster. What were they thinking? It's clear that at some point they thought they could bring in 10 million subscribers, that's the only reason they would have made SW:ToR instead of three KoTOR sequels. The game won't shut down of course, but unless they match WoW numbers it's a clear financial failure compared to the games they could have made, without even taking into account this rumored record-breaking budget.
I seriously doubt they actually spend more 200 million and so should you. One analyst making an estimate with no hard evidence doesn't prove anything.

But that is a good point. I honestly wish theid done that instead anyway.
 

ThunderCavalier

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Ultratwinkie said:
-some- Damage? EA would be sitting next to interplay if this fails.

Spending 500 million? That is FIVE GTA IVs on an MMO. Its a demographic that fails on the same rate as RESTAURANTS. Its blatantly irresponsible. For that amount of money, they could have made exactly 25 AAA games at maximum with that kind of money.

EA is repeating the same mistake interplay made over 10 years ago with Fallout: Brotherhood of steel. If this flops, EA will be practically cut off at the knee and Bioware would literally be gone the way of Black isle.
o_o

Oh god, I hope this doesn't bomb.
 

awsome117

New member
Jan 27, 2009
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Durgiun said:
Please let it fail, please let it fail, please let it fail.
If you really don't care for MMO's (from another post) then why are you commenting on this thread, let alone caring (or not caring in this case) about SW:ToR?

On Topic, Jesus Christ I feel like I walked into 4chan as all I see people saying that it's a WoW (which at this point, I really can't understand as no one called WoW a clone of the previous MMOs before it[then again, WoW wasn't there to be called a clone of WoW]) clone.

I hope this game does last, as I really love the game and would enjoy new (republic players :p) coming in.
 

vansau

Mortician of Love
May 25, 2010
6,107
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Ultratwinkie said:
ThunderCavalier said:
Well...

I honestly hope that this doesn't bomb, just because I have a liking for some of EA's games and for BioWare in general, and I'm afraid that this might cause some damage to them if this fails.

At the same time, though, I honestly do not care whatsoever for MMOs, so...
-some- Damage? EA would be sitting next to interplay if this fails.

Spending 500 million? That is FIVE GTA IVs on an MMO. Its a demographic that fails on the same rate as RESTAURANTS. Its blatantly irresponsible. For that amount of money, they could have made exactly 25 AAA games at maximum with that kind of money.

EA is repeating the same mistake interplay made over 10 years ago with Fallout: Brotherhood of steel. If this flops, EA will be practically cut off at the knee and Bioware would literally be gone the way of Black isle.
If only because of your doom and gloom prediction for EA I now more than ever want this to fail. I would love to see the day karma finally caught up with EA and they were forced to either close there doors or become a shell of there former selves.
 

Vhite

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Aug 17, 2009
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I haven't played the game but if it's anything like WoW EA won't ever see their money again. Even if it managed to take down WoW from the top MMORPG throne it wouldn't mean much because WoW-like games are going slowly down (thanks to WoW itself and especially everyone who is trying to copy it) and they will be need to replace them with something different. Well that's my theory, my money is on Titan (if it will be an RPG) and Guild Wars 2.
 

Durgiun

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Dec 25, 2008
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awsome117 said:
Durgiun said:
Please let it fail, please let it fail, please let it fail.
If you really don't care for MMO's (from another post) then why are you commenting on this thread, let alone caring (or not caring in this case) about SW:ToR?
Because I hate anything that'll garner a bigger profit for EA than it deserves.