Angry Birds Dev Spins Piracy as Growing Fanbase

[Twilight_guy]

Yeah tell that to the people making a game that isn't more popular then toilet paper. Also, tell that to people selling your products under a different name from Angry Birds and thus not growing your brand while taking your products.

Ah, what does it matter all this thread is going to do is produce "Lol, drm is shit, companies are evil" posts over and over again. These threads feel like the ramblings of an autistic at times.

 

[XDravond]

Only downside is that if "the fan" buys a "pirate" merchandise then the quality might be to low or just bad so that "fan" thinks AngryBirds/Rovio is "bad"....

(lots of "" =D)

 

[Lethos]

This is fascinating. Truly, truly fascinating.

Neither side of this will admit to even the possibility of being wrong. Both believe that not only is their view right, it is obvious.

EVERY single thread involving Piracy has multiple 15 posts arguments about it.

Hopefully, if enough devs come around, we will be able to stop all this pointlessness.

I agree with this. Both sides tend to be so stubborn that it makes the threads about piracy kinda painful to read.

 

[Artemicion]

As much as I respect their opinions... don't go lumping all indie devs into that category. Seeing your product out there for free is one of the worst [http://distractionware.com/blog/2009/12/final-push/] feelings [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.339568-Jimquisition-Piracy-Episode-One-Copyright?page=4#13736797] you can get. [http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?10692-I-need-the-assistance-of-the-community]

Wait, what? What am I lumping indie devs into? I said they're nice people, not they all don't mind having their product freely distributed. I appreciate the realistic view of piracy that some of them have (in that it is something that can't really be stopped, so instead it should be treated as an opportunity for a sale). I do realize that there are some (many) that may instead feel that piracy is the worst thing since ET for Atari. But at least they're not actively forcing useless DRM onto their games.

Er. As far as I know, anyway. The indie scene is nowhere near my area of expertise.

 

[hooksashands]

I'll never understand the argument that piracy costs developers money. If someone pirates a game, the developer loses nothin in that process. There are no physical copies involved that they have to replace. There's no key that needs to be created in its place. The only way the developer "loses" money when it comes to piracy is if they equate every single pirated game as someone who would have bought the game legitimately if they didn't pirate it which is a retarded view.

Yes and no. Up until the start of this year I followed the same reasoning. But something occured to me right around New Years... Even if the creator technically loses nothing (product or money-wise) the fact remains that there was never a profit. You're right. There's no lost sale, but there is a prevented one. Loss implies that it can't be replaced without gathering more resources/money.

Let me try to form the best analogy I can (and stop me if you've already heard this).

You invent a device that makes pies out of thin air. It is a marvel of modern science, a miracle machine that can produce 500 pies per hour; This works out to 12,000 pies per day. You decide to start selling your pastries for 3 dollars each, a little less than what a typical pie from the bakery costs. Assuming your customers buy half your stock in 24 hours, that's $18,000 you make in one day, or $126,000 in just one week.

But then something terrible happens. Someone copies your pie machine and starts making the same delicious pies, but distributes them for free. A lot of your customers share your outrage, however now only half as many people are willing to pay for pie (the other half are more'n likely eating the free pie because, well, it's free pie!). You quickly go from making $126,000 in a week to $63,000.

But wait, it gets worse. The person who copied your machine makes another pie machine. And another and another, until you're eventually forced to lower your prices to just a dollar-a-pie so your customers stay loyal to you. Now you're only making $21,000 every week. You're making a fraction of what you used to all because some altruist is trying to feed the hungry and doesn't have any way to control the distribution like you do. Thus your business is run into the ground. Also, everyone eats too much pie and gets type 2 diabetes. Millions perish because unlike pie, insulin is now scarce at this point and so expensive only the upper class can afford it. You and the people who copied your pie machine are all burned at stakes in public to set an example.

And that's why you shouldn't condone piracy.

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

Pirating Angry Birds? Seriously? How many hoops do you have to jump through to pirate a game on the iPhone or other phone-based OS? I cannot imagine that the hassle is worth saving a whole buck. Unless its something where they jump through all the hoops for some other purpose that just so happens to let them easily pirate the game, so they figure "eh, why not?" But seriously, what's next? Piracy stats on a free iPhone game?

 

[theultimateend]

So are the unauthorised copies losing them money? No...it's just not making them any money.

My lord.

I think rationalism has become a contagious disease on the Escapist. I'm liking this.

Next thing you know there will be more people than Jim Sterling accurately discussing piracy on news and videos.

2012 may just be the end of the world folks...

 

[StriderShinryu]

And this is exactly the frame of mind I'm suse most developers actually do have. Some hate piracy more than others, but all simply look at it as a possible market share they haven't reached yet. For all those who buy used games or pirate games because they think they're "sticking it to the man!" Sorry, you're not. You're just showing the game companies that you want their game. You aren't changing anything.

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

I'll never understand the argument that piracy costs developers money. If someone pirates a game, the developer loses nothin in that process. There are no physical copies involved that they have to replace. There's no key that needs to be created in its place. The only way the developer "loses" money when it comes to piracy is if they equate every single pirated game as someone who would have bought the game legitimately if they didn't pirate it which is a retarded view.

But they DO lose money. The developers spend millions of dollars developing that game. Paying for it recoups their losses so that they can justify paying another million dollars to develop another game for you to play. If everyone pirated games based on the fact that "it doesn't hurt them", then surprise surprise: No more games.

Edit: Mind, I'm just as against DRM as the next guy. In fact, I've passed on buying/playing numerous games that I've wanted to buy/play based purely on the fact that I disagree with the DRM methods used by many companies. I'm simply pointing out in what way the developers (or publishers) lose money via piracy.

 

[Sylveria]

There's no question that unauthorized merchandise and apps are costing Rovio money right now, but Hed seems to be taking the long view. "Piracy may not be a bad thing: it can get us more business at the end of the day." Of course, Angry Birds is more popular and profitable than a number of world religions at this point, so unlike many developers, Rovio can afford to withstand some piracy in the present to expand its fanbase for the future.

See this is the funny part. It's rarely the small and/or indie developers, the ones that suffer the most, who complain about piracy. It's always the big multi-billion dollar companies like EA and Ubisoft who are always pulling massive profits even with piracy and used sales.

Admittedly, Rovio Mobile is hardly small or indie at this point. But they're certainly not EA, and they see the silver lining; they gain goodwill and fans which in an industry that is drowning in it's own bile, like the game industry is, good will and appreciative fans will get you far more sales than intrusive DRM and all the other anti-consumer stuff going on ever will.

 

[Evil Smurf]

I bought the game on iPod, computer and even plush toys! Also piracy of iOS apps takes much more effort then clicking the purchase button, so why bother?

 

[Evil Smurf]

There's no question that unauthorized merchandise and apps are costing Rovio money right now, but Hed seems to be taking the long view. "Piracy may not be a bad thing: it can get us more business at the end of the day." Of course, Angry Birds is more popular and profitable than a number of world religions at this point, so unlike many developers, Rovio can afford to withstand some piracy in the present to expand its fanbase for the future.

See this is the funny part. It's rarely the small and/or indie developers, the ones that suffer the most, who complain about piracy. It's always the big multi-billion dollar companies like EA and Ubisoft who are always pulling massive profits even with piracy and used sales.

Admittedly, Rovio Mobile is hardly small or indie at this point. But they're certainly not EA, and they see the silver lining; they gain goodwill and fans which in an industry that is drowning in it's own bile, like the game industry is, good will and appreciative fans will get you far more sales than intrusive DRM and all the other anti-consumer stuff going on ever will.

Imagine saying that you are more popular then God, it must feel weird

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

There's no question that unauthorized merchandise and apps are costing Rovio money right now, but Hed seems to be taking the long view. "Piracy may not be a bad thing: it can get us more business at the end of the day." Of course, Angry Birds is more popular and profitable than a number of world religions at this point, so unlike many developers, Rovio can afford to withstand some piracy in the present to expand its fanbase for the future.

See this is the funny part. It's rarely the small and/or indie developers, the ones that suffer the most, who complain about piracy. It's always the big multi-billion dollar companies like EA and Ubisoft who are always pulling massive profits even with piracy and used sales.

Admittedly, Rovio Mobile is hardly small or indie at this point. But they're certainly not EA, and they see the silver lining; they gain goodwill and fans which in an industry that is drowning in it's own bile, like the game industry is, good will and appreciative fans will get you far more sales than intrusive DRM and all the other anti-consumer stuff going on ever will.

Consider the difference in cost to develop the games that EA tends to put out vs your average Indy title. You praise Rovio for their position on piracy based on the fact that they supposedly aren't indie anymore? Here's a little hint: I could have paid to have Angry Birds developed if I had wanted to. Of course Rovio is going to be lax about piracy when they were able to develop a cheap-o game that made them as much profit as it has, especially when every pirate of Angry Birds is OH NO A WHOLE DOLLAR LOST!! Rovio would need 60 pirates for every 1 of EA's in order to have even an idea of the kind of loss potential that piracy brings, but somehow I would guess that the ratio is the other way around, if anything.

So OF COURSE a company with:

A) Ridiculously low development costs
B) A very low-cost game to buy
C) Relatively few pirates anyway
and D) Let's not forget that they make a lot of money off merchandizing (possibly more than the game itself).

Is going to be lax about their opinions on piracy. It hardly puts them in an admirable position compared to the rest of the industry.

 

[The Lugz]

In b4 "piracy isn't theft".

But yeah, Angry Birds is either free or cheap enough for the average hobo. I'd rather just buy it than pirate it.

seeing as you mentioned it, your quite correct it's copyright infringement
you cant steal an intellectual property because it does not exist

obviously that dosent make it any more legal, but imo it's not like holding up a grocery shop at gunpoint and demanding products / money
( although it is charged legally that way in some places )
if my friends started doing that they wouldn't be my friends anymore
they do however pirate things, anno, crysis, dirt, cod, minecraft, even windows 7...

it's usually a cost / investment / demo thing, some things they just refuse to pay for

i basically have a passive stance on piracy i can see it dosent help the industry, but then i don't really see how it harms it as ( from what ive seen anyway ) pirates would just play other games and ignore your product even if you had bulletproof drm, so like 1% extra sales ? seems like hot air to me.

I think the biggest thing that people (particularly governments) are trying to get at with piracy is that the average person (I would say THE VAST MAJORITY, something in the 90 percentile) does not have the technical chops (and never will) to be able to pirate a game if governments censored (or whatever else they want to do) sites that distribute copyrighted materials illegally. I think there are ways to do this that do NOT infringe on peoples rights. If governments get there act together and figure out how to right a logical bill that is NOT in bed with corporate pockets, then it would end up being a very good thing, companies would lose less money, and most everyone would be happy. The rest of the pirates would be so few that you COULD pursue them in court, and if you didn't, it's nothing to cry about cause their so few.

quite correct, but it's an issue of scope isn't it your talking about sealing a colander with band-aids
it's going to take a massive legal reform to pull that off and even if you do someone will still manage to get them off in secret
1 disconnected pc and a file swap later = piracy is back
it's always going to exist, it just comes down to the fact it isn't yet worth pursuing for most company's as the outlay to do anything about it is beyond any profit they could possibly hope to recoup
now, if every company put a little in...
oh wait that's sopa ( because it's that vague for all the types of piracy.. )
it's just impossible tbh

 

[Strazdas]

So are the unauthorised copies losing them money? No...it's just not making them any money.

Whether it would or not? No-one's bothered to find out. But I'm guessing most of us know a pirate somewhere...would he?

Not exactly correct.
There was a study done in 3 baltic states (Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania), in which i was one of the quizz collectors. the results were, if i remmeber correctly:
8% buy items that they pirate (provided its not complete crap)
53% would like to buy them but cant afford it
39% would not buy items they can pirate.
The paper concentrated on movie piracy, but i think it wont be too far off for games and music as well.

 

[snave]

Leveraging Chinese knockoffs to promote your brand for free is genius.

 

[Denamic]

Can't afford a Lexus? You don't take for an "extended test drive". You don't BUY IT. Piracy is THEFT. You are DELIBERATELY enjoying someone else's hardwork and not paying for it.

Let's say someone has the power to make perfect copies of physical objects with no effect on the original.
He walks up to your car that's parked by the road, and makes a copy of it.
Your car is untouched, but the guy now has an identical copy of that car.
Were your car stolen?
Will you have to walk now?

 

[grigjd3]

My respect for Rovio has increased dramatically. I've never thought that illegal file sharing was ok, but the typical reaction to illegal file sharing is far more damaging. I am seriously considering not playing Mass Effect 3 because of its Origin-based DRM (and terrible terms of service). Now, in addition to all the money that EA is missing out on due to pirated games, they will likely also be missing out on what otherwise would have been legitimate sales. I don't need to play Mass Effect 3, but EA sure needs my and many other's money. Just keep pissing on your customers and see if the piracy issue goes away. I'm guessing not. In the mean time, your customer base will go somewhere else (I heard that Angry Birds game is tons of fun anyhow).

 

[Baldr]

Can't afford a Lexus? You don't take for an "extended test drive". You don't BUY IT. Piracy is THEFT. You are DELIBERATELY enjoying someone else's hardwork and not paying for it.

Let's say someone has the power to make perfect copies of physical objects with no effect on the original.
He walks up to your car that's parked by the road, and makes a copy of it.
Your car is untouched, but the guy now has an identical copy of that car.
Were your car stolen?
Will you have to walk now?

Well, first off my car cost thousands of dollars. I'd be pissed. Why did I have to buy my car and that guy got his for free. Not to mention the car company which cost them money to build each car can't compete with free.