Anti-Mutant/Powers Groups Are Right.

[Scarim Coral]

So you are suggesting to give into paranoia and mistrust?
Yes I do agree why we should be afraid of them but what if one of your love ones or a close friend has a ability/ super power? Would your relation to them would end just because of lack of trust (seeing how she or he didn't tell you her/ his secret) and started to be afraid of him/ her?
At the end of the day anyone with superpowers may not turn on us due to having empathy for us from all the time we had treated them as equeal with with friendship or believe that we can co-exist with one another.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

SNIP

And the slavery/murder in the meantime is acceptable losses?

It does considerably. If you cannot give a good answer on how to do it without killing them or subjugating them yourself, then I don't see how you have any ground to stand on. In either case you have become worse than you think they are because you have power and not only that, you've used it in the way you fear from them.

How is that unfair? And you only really have a right to say that if you're some kind of communist really. A capitalistic society already has that kind of thing with wealth. And any kind of society where you are treated the least bit differently has that. Do you have some other kind of society in mind then? If not then you are being quite discriminatory in how you apply this kind of equality of opportunity.

All of it can be brought down to genetics and environment anyway. If, in this world, I do better than you I did it due to my upbringing, genetics, luck. My personality, everything comes from that. If I am a hard worker, if I am a genius. That's no different than the current state of the world, it will simply be more pronounced. I do not see how it is unfair. Genetics is not unfair because no one is owed anything by it.

But it isn't unfair to him in any way. Does he earn more than someone who is a vegetable? Then he was lucky he didn't end up as one himself. He earns more by the same virtue that the others earn more than he does.

Nonsense, pointing out societial disadvantage isnt weakened by the fact i myself cannot offer a solution. In the same way pointing out inherent sexism isnt weakened by my inability to offer a solution for it. Thats completely fallacious. My point is simply the disadvantage is there. The crux of my arguement is the scale of the advantage. Theoretically the poorest family in the USA could work its way into the big money. But a non super powered person can never match a super powered person ever. No amount of hardwork or luck can even the playing field because the playing field is slanted at its core. I think i used advantage incorrectly. Advantage is when both sides can both achieve the same but one has a better chance, a better start to go from. Someone being better than you in a way simply impossible to match under any circumstance is above advantage. Thats just classes of citizenry that are impossible to escape. The class of regular people. And the class of godlike powers who are above you in pretty much any way.

This isnt even going into the idea of crime among supers. Who polices super people? Other super people? The conflicts would be on bigger scales with more power at use than regular policing and regular people, again, would have little to no say in the matter since there is nothing they could do anyway to favor either side.

My point isnt that slight advantage shouldnt be genetic, i phrased it poorly before because as you pointed out before it already is. Its that total power over your fellow humans shouldnt be genetic. Its not too dissimilar from a monarchy or despotism. Outside of everyones control some get power over others. Sure we can trust them not to use it and we can trust others with it to save us from it but thats dependancy. Living under the shadow of protection of others. With no autonomy to help or defend ourselves if it came to it. It amounts to little more than slavery. Relying on super people to defend us from super people and praying that they continue their job.

Ill address your point about vegetables being to us what we are to supers. Sorry i missed this. Id say its again about scale and direction of advantage. There is little that can be done about people who suffer that fate, they started life on the same playing field and a random bit of bad luck took it away. Its not fair to those people really but there is no way to prevent it. None. It cannot be prevented that accidents will happen to people. Super people being a first class citizenry can be prevented.

Perhaps we shackle their powers to not be TOO powerfull or teach extreme self discipline? None of these are foolproof though.

 

[Esotera]

The very act of attempting to take their powers away is more dangerous than just letting them keep their powers. If you try and take them by force, they're going to put up resistance, which will likely hurt people.

What should be done is they should be educated very well in self-discipline and refraining from making on-the-spot decisions, which is something the government should provide psychiatrists to help with.

Also, the X-men can be a metaphor for real cultural events, so you should feel bad.

 

[loc978]

Hell, what's to stop an ex-special forces war hero from going on a killing spree? I think we should imprison anyone who has more than the average capacity for violence!

Ah, responsible self-control... when did you stop being normal?

 

[Corporal Yakob]

Maybe I'm biased because the big evil gas-mask wearing government forces in these stories are always much cooler then the bright eyed leotard wearing mutants whining about persecution but I agree. Given that there are mutants in the Xmen universe that can control minds, are immortal killers and one who was basically a god with no self-restraint, its simply far too dangerous not to act against them. At the very least government agencies should be watching super-powered communities 24/7 and be ready to intervene in any situations.

 

[Doclector]

There would definately have to be some kind of registration. No doubt such people would have much further ability for evil than most, although they could just as likely use their powers for good.

It would have to be very well handled. Registration would be completely and utterly confidential, registration would be done somewhere like a hospital, where you could have any reason to be there. Disclosure of the information collected would be on an absolute need to know basis, unless the mutant in question wishes otherwise, or well, in the cases that the mutation is "obvious" anyway.

The police and the person's GP would be the only people in the community instantly given said information instantly, with strict punishments if the information is unecessarily released.

Mutants would have to be treated exactly the same by the law as everyone else. Preparations would have to be made to hold mutant prisoners if necessary. Prevention, i believe, would be the key here. There'd have to be awareness campaigns-celebrity mutants would come in handy. Counselling would be made available to mutants who need it.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Maybe I'm biased because the big evil gas-mask wearing government forces in these stories are always much cooler then the bright eyed leotard wearing mutants whining about persecution but I agree. Given that there are mutants in the Xmen universe that can control minds, are immortal killers and one who was basically a god with no self-restraint, its simply far too dangerous not to act against them. At the very least government agencies should be watching super-powered communities 24/7 and be ready to intervene in any situations.

If they're that powerful what good would it do?

 

[Corporal Yakob]

Maybe I'm biased because the big evil gas-mask wearing government forces in these stories are always much cooler then the bright eyed leotard wearing mutants whining about persecution but I agree. Given that there are mutants in the Xmen universe that can control minds, are immortal killers and one who was basically a god with no self-restraint, its simply far too dangerous not to act against them. At the very least government agencies should be watching super-powered communities 24/7 and be ready to intervene in any situations.

If they're that powerful what good would it do?

Pre-emptive strike while their not expecting it, finish them off before they finish us off!

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

Your argument seemed to have more than a single point. And you said you proposed strict control. Any kind of call for action that you propose is weakened considerably by not having a plan of action. You are applying my argument to the wrong point of yours.

But I'd argue that all you're doing in the current system is hiding behind ignorance of who actually can succeed or not. I'd say that for some people the advantages others have are insurmountable, we just can't see it because it isn't such an obvious disparity as the one proposed.

In particular, if you look at the future as an inevitable consequence of the current state of affairs, there are clearly people who will not succeed. And I'd argue that that is how the universe is, the future is already essentially determined. Our actions are determined. Our successes and failures are determined. Clearly every last person who failed didn't have the ability to overcome the advantage. If they did, they would have. If you claim they were not hardworking enough, then I'll just point out that their environment and genes did not make them that way, so in essence there never was a way the could have succeeded.

Besides, you've done nothing to dispute my example of the vegetable. He is unable to match us. Does that make our existence unfair to him? By your logic it would seem to. To him we might as well have godlike powers. It needn't even be so far as a vegetable, just need someone who is severely mentally disabled. Is our existence unfair to such a person?

So? That's a problem for society. Doesn't make it unfair. They were just born that way. Just like we are born more capable than some unfortunate others in society.

Shouldn't be genetic? I'm going to say that's ridiculous, Presume we're in a world where it already occurs. That would be the same as saying that "Well that's not fair, this world shouldn't have cancer". It's fact, it happens. Saying it shouldn't be that way is nonsense, you're complaining about the way the universe is.

It is entirely dissimilar from monarchy and despotism because those are a choice.

And your talk of needing to rely on others, so what should we do about the people who are too weak to live on their own in our society? Are we an abomination because we have so much more power than them?

First off despotism and monarchy are not choices. Im kinda amazed you even typed that. Ask any peasant from the middle ages if they "chose" monarchy. No. Monarchy and despotism arise when one person amasses enough followers/power to rule over others unquestioningly because resistance would mean fighting someone so much more powerfull than yourself. So its not a choice. Well it is. You can listen to the monarch. Or die. Lovely. Except the theoritical power gekld by a monarch or despoit is in regular people. The same as you. So its even less daunting than if said monarch had such power innately and was beyond regular human ability to resist. See how this might be even worse than despotism?

I thought the entire basis of arming the population in America was to ensure that our custodians were never more powerfully armed than us? No? Do you disagree with gun ownership because thats the under pinning of it. Suddenly when the police can shoot fire and level cities thats not something to be scared of?

The vegetable was once human, once ordinary and lets be honest the scenarios are completely different because you couldnt rule a kingdom of vegetables. There is a differnce between a powerfull majority helping a minority and a powerfull minority policing the majority. Relying on others isnt something we should do by choice. If we have to, literally have to, then yes, like the vegetable, we shall. The difference between us and the vegetable is that the vegetable or the weaker person did nothing to choose such a fate and has NO other way of doing it. We are fine as we are now. We dont NEED help like that. It isnt the ONLY way. There are other ways that dont involve giving others power over us.

In the example of the vegetable tell me what is the best outcome:

1. We care for him and do everything for him.
2. We find a way for the vegetable to do this for themselves.

In the example of the vegetable this is impossible. But the option is still infinitely preferable. Which is why if given the choice between "no supers" and "supers police us from other supers putting power in their hands" id choose the former. At least then we are masters of our own security.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Maybe I'm biased because the big evil gas-mask wearing government forces in these stories are always much cooler then the bright eyed leotard wearing mutants whining about persecution but I agree. Given that there are mutants in the Xmen universe that can control minds, are immortal killers and one who was basically a god with no self-restraint, its simply far too dangerous not to act against them. At the very least government agencies should be watching super-powered communities 24/7 and be ready to intervene in any situations.

If they're that powerful what good would it do?

Pre-emptive strike while their not expecting it, finish them off before they finish us off!

Some of the powersets these mutants possess make nuclear weapons look like fire crackers.

 

[Corporal Yakob]

Maybe I'm biased because the big evil gas-mask wearing government forces in these stories are always much cooler then the bright eyed leotard wearing mutants whining about persecution but I agree. Given that there are mutants in the Xmen universe that can control minds, are immortal killers and one who was basically a god with no self-restraint, its simply far too dangerous not to act against them. At the very least government agencies should be watching super-powered communities 24/7 and be ready to intervene in any situations.

If they're that powerful what good would it do?

Pre-emptive strike while their not expecting it, finish them off before they finish us off!

Some of the powersets these mutants possess make nuclear weapons look like fire crackers.

Exactly why we need to catch them off guard first! Normal powerless humans can't get through one day without killing each other for petty reasons, adding super-powered mutants to the mix just means a lot more people will die when the arguments break out.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Maybe I'm biased because the big evil gas-mask wearing government forces in these stories are always much cooler then the bright eyed leotard wearing mutants whining about persecution but I agree. Given that there are mutants in the Xmen universe that can control minds, are immortal killers and one who was basically a god with no self-restraint, its simply far too dangerous not to act against them. At the very least government agencies should be watching super-powered communities 24/7 and be ready to intervene in any situations.

If they're that powerful what good would it do?

Pre-emptive strike while their not expecting it, finish them off before they finish us off!

Some of the powersets these mutants possess make nuclear weapons look like fire crackers.

Exactly why we need to catch them off guard first! Normal powerless humans can't get through one day without killing each other for petty reasons, adding super-powered mutants to the mix just means a lot more people will die when the arguments break out.

You might catch them off guard....once. Unless you have every single possible mutant, their allies and safehouses/zones rigged with multi kiloton bombs, then your first strike will be your last; it will only be the punch that awakes the sleeping giant and fills him with a terrible resolve. Guess who said that about what and whom, by the way.

They'd never accept such monitoring in the first place. Even if you did the democratic thing in the US and put it to the vote, if it passed there would be riots the likes of which you had never seen.

Subjugation like you're talking about leads only to rebellion and war or genocide. Even if it takes a thousand years, if they wanted their freedom from a yoke (no matter how loose) then they would fight for it. The colonial Americans didn't accept the yoke of England and threw it off in a war which they won. You really think for one second any person who develops mutant powers in the US, and has been raised on all that freedom from tyranny talk is really gonna suddenly accept Orwell's handbook being shoved up their arse because they were born different? Think again sunshine.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Oh the irony, "hey let's kill them because they are dangerous"... well I wonder who here should be disposed of first then.

 

[Corporal Yakob]

Maybe I'm biased because the big evil gas-mask wearing government forces in these stories are always much cooler then the bright eyed leotard wearing mutants whining about persecution but I agree. Given that there are mutants in the Xmen universe that can control minds, are immortal killers and one who was basically a god with no self-restraint, its simply far too dangerous not to act against them. At the very least government agencies should be watching super-powered communities 24/7 and be ready to intervene in any situations.

If they're that powerful what good would it do?

Pre-emptive strike while their not expecting it, finish them off before they finish us off!

Some of the powersets these mutants possess make nuclear weapons look like fire crackers.

Exactly why we need to catch them off guard first! Normal powerless humans can't get through one day without killing each other for petty reasons, adding super-powered mutants to the mix just means a lot more people will die when the arguments break out.

You might catch them off guard....once. Unless you have every single possible mutant, their allies and safehouses/zones rigged with multi kiloton bombs, then your first strike will be your last; it will only be the punch that awakes the sleeping giant and fills him with a terrible resolve. Guess who said that about what and whom, by the way.

They'd never accept such monitoring in the first place. Even if you did the democratic thing in the US and put it to the vote, if it passed there would be riots the likes of which you had never seen.

Subjugation like you're talking about leads only to rebellion and war or genocide. Even if it takes a thousand years, if they wanted their freedom from a yoke (no matter how loose) then they would fight for it. The colonial Americans didn't accept the yoke of England and threw it off in a war which they won. You really think for one second any person who develops mutant powers in the US, and has been raised on all that freedom from tyranny talk is really gonna suddenly accept Orwell's handbook being shoved up their arse because they were born different? Think again sunshine.

Then we make sure that our Pearl Habour is a truely decisive victory. I recall that the US government was developing a bastardised version of Professor X's telepathy enhancing machine with the intent to eliminate all mutants on the planet with a single strike in the second Xmen film-just use that and we won't have to worry about any future rebellions or Magnetos.

 

[Latinidiot]

No, powers are rad as hell! Besides, someone having potential for power or crime doesn't justify clipping their rights. If someone is really tall and strong we do not and should not preemptively take action against him potentially assaulting someone.

 

[Hero in a half shell]

42 comments and no mention of Marvel's Civil War?

Come on, it was an entire series devoted to exploring whether superheroes as a whole (not just mutants) should be regulated and controlled in some way since they were so destructive.

Personally I think they should be allowed freedom to frolick in meadows and accidentally explode dentist surgeries and stuff because of the rule of cool, and otherwise it would be boring.

 

[Heronblade]

Far too many variables to judge while sitting here.

The Xmen scenario has no basis in reality. It makes for interesting scifi, but could not possibly occur. Now, it is certainly possible for positive mutations to occur/evolve, even within a ridiculously brief period of time, but they are unlikely to be anywhere near the level found with the more dangerous mutants in Xmen, and we would be looking at a small population of at least semi related people with some degree of the same mutation, not random unrelated people with widely varying abilities.

 

[Vault101]

see this is why the whole x-men thing never apealed to me

to much moral ambiguity...and that makes my head hurt

 

[Zantos]

There is always the chance that taking away their basic freedoms on the grounds that they 'might' be dangerous is the thing that causes them to have such contempt for the rest of humanity. He might be able to wipe out millions in a single thought, but he'd have been less likely to do it if he hadn't been persecuted from birth for something he had no control over.

 

[Orange12345]

My take is basically if I HAVE powers Magneto was right, if I DON'T HAVE powers the anti-power side is right