Any Daggerfall-esque RPGs on PC (aside from the other TES games)?

[ninja666]

Recently, I decided to give Daggerfall a shot, thanks to it being ported over to the Unity engine and modernized, making it a much more pleasant experience. The thing is, after some point in every playthrough, the game becomes borderline unplayable due to a severe bug in one particular mod I can't live without, so for now, until everything's fixed, I have to look for something else to play in the meantime.

Can you think of anything that would provide me with a similar enough experience? Here's what I want:

Spoiler: Way too long list of way too highly specific criteria

1. First or third person perspective

2. RPG

3. Fantasy

4. Focus on a single character. Couldn't care less for party-based RPGs.

5. Character creation and some sort of customization in terms of appearance, even if it's as simple as just picking a face and hairstyle.

6. Fluid, non-grid-based movement. I basically want it to handle like an FPS game.

7. Open world with lots of variety in terms of landscape. Doesn't have to be as stupidly gigantic as Daggerfall's world (cause let's be honest, no game world is as big), but at the same time I'd love to see at least a couple distinctly different zones, be it culturally, in terms of climate, or anything, really, as long as it makes the world feel diverse, each of them being fairly large. Bonus points if it has some sort of desert-y area.

8. Lots to explore in terms of locations sprinkled around the game world, and lots to do in terms of quests, guilds etc. I especially love dungeon crawling, so if the game has lots of these for me to clear out, that'd be awesome.

9. Level design on par with Daggerfall. That means fully 3D cities/towns with enterable, multi-story buildings, and dungeons that aren't just glorified Wolfenstein 3D levels, but rather locations with varied and interesting architectural complexity.

10. Retro or retro-stylized graphics. A big part of Daggerfall's charm for me was its old graphical style - primitive 3D models, sprite-based NPCs and weapons etc. I'd love a game that looks similar to that. It can either look like a DOS game, with everything being super low resolution, have a "modern-retro" artstyle (primitive 3D models and sprite-based objects, but the textures and sprites are high-res; example [https://staticdelivery.nexusmods.com/mods/2927/images/6/6-1566069946-1424022699.png]), or like an early 00s game (think vanilla Morowind). I just want it to look old-ish and be relatively non-demanding hardware-wise.

11. [OPTIONAL] Small, unnecessary, but immersion-improving details. I loved how in Daggerfall, in order to be able to find a location, you had to ask NPCs for directions, or if you wanted to buy something at a store, you had to physically browse the shelves rather than just simply talking to the shopkeeper. Those kinds of details made it the game feel much more fun for an immersion freak like myself. I'm aware this is a pretty tall order on top of another pretty tall order, so I'll leave it as an optional requirement. If it's there, nice, if it isn't, not gonna cry over it.

Last, but not least, I gotta mention it before someone goes on a way too elaborate explanation about it - I don't need a history lesson. I'm aware Daggerfall was more or less Bethesda's attempt at expanding on the idea of early 3D first person RPGs, like Might and Magic, or Ultima Underworld, and was one of the most advanced RPGs at the time, so a lot of other games from that era are going to be far more primitive in terms of overall design. With that being said, however, I'm not necessarily looking for a game made around the same time. It can be newer than 96. Hell, it can even be made in 2019, as long as it meets the criteria and can be run on a PC that's utter garbage by modern standards. With the amount of nostalgic throwback indie games being made nowadays, there's gotta be at least one similar enough to Daggerfall out there.

Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Gothic II?

The video is basically how Gothic II has done open world better than current games.

I also feel games like the Divinity Original Sins have a lot of what you're looking for like there isn't quest markers on where to go but they aren't 1st-person 3D games so they fail to meet much of the criteria. They are party-based but you can do Lone Wolf characters.

 

[ninja666]

Gothic II?

The video is basically how Gothic II has done open world better than current games.

I watched that video, and in general, the guy who made it seems to enjoy a different style of game design than I do. He bashes Oblivion (and the TES series in general) for putting quantity over quality, having you constantly come across appealing, but ultimately meaningless landmarks, dungeons etc, while praising Gothic for being smaller, while at the same time more deliberate in its world design. The thing is, I enjoy The Elder Scrolls' quantity.

I love seeing a world filled with opportunities to do quests, or to explore yet another confusingly long dungeon and cart 30k gold worth of loot out of it. I enjoy those games' open-endedness in allowing you to go wherever you want. Gothic not only doesn't have that, but also the guy seems to romanticize this game's design quite a lot, praising the game for what it's not. The exploration is more meaningful, sure, but at the same time, the game is designed to have you progress in a way the developers want you to, having you reach a failstate, if for some reason you want to be a type of character the developers didn't intend you to be, which is the opposite of what the TES series do, allowing you not only to beat the game as any type of character you want, but also allowing you access to different quests and guilds, depending on type of character you are. And in Gothic 2? You pretty much have to become a Paladin, as it's the guild the developers wanted you to join.

So, to sum it all up, I'm looking for something that follows TES's school of design, rather than Gothic's.

I also feel games like the Divinity Original Sins have a lot of what you're looking for like there isn't quest markers on where to go but they aren't 1st-person 3D games so they fail to meet much of the criteria. They are party-based but you can do Lone Wolf characters.

Yeah, I'm not really into isometric RPGs all that much. I prefer to have direct control over my character.

Thanks for replying. At least you tried, which is appreciated.

 

[ninja666]

Any other ideas, anyone?

 

[Dansen]

You are going to have a hard time finding something comparable that isn't isometric. Daggerfall is sort of an anomaly from what I've heard in that the tech was just advanced enough that they could include all this world building stuff but also primitive enough that they didn't get overwhelmed by the scope. I definitely wish Bethesda would try and take ideas from that game instead of continuing to strip out its DNA in the newer entries. The fact that you could scale buildings then but not in Skyrim is wild to me.

The Divinity games might be close in terms of freedom offered except they are isometric and not retro :/

 

[ninja666]

You are going to have a hard time finding something comparable that isn't isometric.

I'm stubborn enough to give it more tries than any sane person would. It's led me to some really interesting results in the past.

Daggerfall is sort of an anomaly from what I've heard in that the tech was just advanced enough that they could include all this world building stuff but also primitive enough that they didn't get overwhelmed by the scope.

Well, yes, it definitely was an anomaly back when it came out. I've already mentioned I'm aware of that. With that said, though, it's been nearly 24 years since its release. I find it hard to believe that with developers' perpetual pissing contest over who has the biggest open world with the most stuff to do, and with the isometric RPGs being pretty much already replaced with action RPGs, there hasn't been at least one comparable game released at some point.

The Divinity games might be close in terms of freedom offered except they are isometric and not retro :/

So I've heard, but unfortunately, I just can't stomach isometric RPGs. I just prefer to have direct control over my characters and see the world either through their eyes or something close enough for me to see the details (like a third person camera from behind their back). When those aspects aren't present, the game automatically loses all of its fun for me. Thanks for recommending it regardless, though.

Any other ideas, anyone?

 

[ninja666]

Alright, after more than a week of intense searching, I'm starting to suspect such a game might not exist after all. I still find it baffling, but I guess there's nothing that can be done about it.

Let's modify the request. Since I can't find an open world RPG that would give me the Daggerfall experience, how about a game that would give me the condensed (and possibly improved) experience of the thing I enjoyed about Daggerfall probably the most - dungeon crawling. This one's gotta be much easier, right?

Spoiler: Here's what I want

1. First or third person perspective dungeon crawler RPG, that's available for PC. First person perspective preferred, though.

2. Smooth, non-grid-based movement with mouselook support. I basically want it to handle like an FPS game.

3. Real time combat.

4. Focus on a single character. No parties.

5. Grim, oppressive atmosphere. I want exploring those dungeons to feel like I'm not even close to being prepared to face what lies ahead.

6. Level design at least on par with Daggerfall's dungeons. That means dungeons that aren't just glorified Wolfenstein 3D levels, but rather locations with varied and interesting architectural complexity, that are genuinely fun to explore. Preferably also looking like places that were once lived-in and functional.

7. Some variety in terms of character builds. I want a warrior, an archer, and a mage to be equally viable ways to play the game. Each with his own advantages and disadvantages of course, but none being objectively better than the others.

8. Hand-crafted levels. No random/procedural generation.

9. No rogue-likes/lites.

10. Semi-meaningful loot. I'm not exactly requiring Dark Souls levels of meaningfulness here, where nearly every weapon you find in the world is unique, but at the same time, I don't really enjoy the randomly generated, Diablo-style loot either. Something inbetween would be perfect, where you can get lots of drops from enemies and chests, but at the same time, where you can feel a genuine difference between a lower-level weapon and a higher-level weapon.

11. Not too demanding in terms of hardware. My PC is pretty trash.

12. [OPTIONAL] Retro or retro-stylized graphics. I have a soft spot for mid-to-late 90s primitive graphics, so I'd definitely enjoy something that looks on par with Daggerfall, or those PS1-era From Software dungeon crawlers, like King's Field, or Shadow Tower.

13. [OPTIONAL] Non-typical ways of traversal. Something that gives more depth to exploration and allows you to reach secret locations you wouldn't be able to reach otherwise, if you're resourceful enough. Anything from climbing walls, to teleportation spells.

Can you think of anything that fits this, that isn't any of these?

- Arx Fatalis
- Battlespire
- Dark Souls
- Any other "big" TES game

 

[Vendor-Lazarus]

-snip-

For your previous search, have you tried Lands of Lore: Guardians of Destiny and Lands of Lore III?
Maybe even Two Worlds II?

For your new search, try;
Grim Dawn
Victor Vran

 

[ninja666]

For your previous search, have you tried Lands of Lore: Guardians of Destiny and Lands of Lore III?
Maybe even Two Worlds II?

I was considering giving the Lands of Lore games a shot as they looked promising. Then I found out they're more story-driven and fairly linear, without giving you much to explore outside of the main story. Unless I'm wrong, in which case correct me.

As for Two Worlds, both I and II, I had tried giving them a shot in the past, but every time I did, I ended up uninstalling the games shortly after. They definitely are open-ended, but at the same time, they're far too janky to be enjoyable. And that's coming from someone who enjoyed Daggerfall, so that's saying something.

For your new search, try;
Grim Dawn
Victor Vran

Both of these are isometric. I've already mentioned I don't enjoy isometric games.