Any good game/general geek sites that dont moan about sexism/racism/homophobia?

Ushiromiya Battler

Oddly satisfied
Feb 7, 2010
601
0
0
MarsAtlas said:
Ushiromiya Battler said:
MarsAtlas said:
NeutralStasis said:
This thread represents EVERYTHING I dislike about gaming culture currently. Nothing that the more "social aware" members of this discussion will be able to say that will impact the OT thinks or feels. The OT may have not approached it in the best possible manner, but people on here took serious offence to this person not wanting any social agenda to be a part of his game review process.
No, people took offense because the OP said that anybody who cared about those things was mentally ill. Its one thing not to care about it, its another to insult people who care about it. I don't care for the fighting or racing genres, but I don't openly insult people who care about those games.
Except he didn't. He responded to a quote with an exaggeration and said that if anyone reacted in the way described they should seek mental help.
So only exactly what I said the OP was saying. Thanks for confirmation.
So if I care about sexism in gaming it means I throw my controllers at dogs?
Thanks for the confirmation.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
18,847
0
0
Abomination said:
I too have the OP's opinion when it comes to video game reviews. I understand some people like to read into the underlying "themes" present in games and jump to all sorts of conclusions as to the developers motives - but I certain as fuck don't.).
actually no

the creators motives are utterly [b/]irrelevant[/b] 99% of the time because if they were the true judge of a works problems then we'd only ever get upset over propaganda level media...and when's the last time you saw something on that level? again it feeds into the idea that its only an "ism" (and problematic) if its OVERT and intentional...and that's just not true for 99% of stuff

hell go and Watch the bugs bunny short "all that and rabbit stew" then back in time and say to the creators they were being racist they'd probably tell you it was just a joke and chill the fuck out, they didn't mean to portray a black guy in the most offensive way possible and further the oppression of an already marginalised group...its just [I/]funny[/I] how the talk and are like...black and stuff

[b/]framing[/b] is important, so the movie "Boys don't cry" features the abuse and murder of a transman but it is framed in such a way that the film is sympathetic to the trans character and condemns society and such

[b/]framing and intentions[/b] are often indistinguishable BUT not the same...

[b/]because Framing doesn't always give you a free pass[/b]...Boys don't cry in the hands of a difference director (a more clueless director) could have been more offensive on the topic of trans issue, or a work can claim to be satire but still reinforce shitty tropes (satire is a very easy excuse)

or another example (and this is a hypothetical I made up on the fly) lets say we have an action flick where manly mcShoot comes home to find his love interest has been raped, wherein he goes on a bloody path of revenge and kills everyone, at the end his love interest jumps into his arms and they make sweet post credits love..the end

so whats the problem there? rape is bad yes? and the movie says rape is bad doesn't it?

it does except when we really look at it its really full of issues. The main one being is that love interest isn't treated as a person her rape was merely a plot device, we don't see how SHE feels, what her experience of rape is, she has no voice. We only see how it relates to HIM, the rape was merely a device to get him to go on a violent killing spree (also subtly feeding into that old old idea that the rage comes not from her welfare but from the "damage" of his "property") not only that but by the end she's "fine" implying its something she can just "get over" [sub/]though on that note the problem there is implying that rape is the ame for everyone, that your damaged forever ect hence why current ideas on sexual assult are harmful, and why the perspectives of women both real and fictional are important[/sub]

so again that "fictional fiction" had a whole host of issues and yet it was never anyones intention, at no point did it frame it as "rape is good" (because duh who would do THAT?) merely that certain sexist ideas in our society worked their way in there

and of coarse everything I say here is because its NEVER "JUST" a movie/game/book/whatever
 

IceForce

Is this memes?
Legacy
Apr 4, 2020
2,384
16
13
I can't believe this thread is still going.

Has the question been answered yet? Or better still, has the OP provided some tangible examples of the types of reviews he doesn't want to read?
 

Yeager942

New member
Oct 31, 2008
1,097
0
0
You basically want to talk about cultural products without talking about culture. I really don't get you people.
 

RavingSturm

New member
May 21, 2014
172
0
0
A lot of onionskins reacting to a simple request for referrals. Ugh! (Slithers back in portal leading into....)
 

Teoes

Poof, poof, sparkles!
Jun 1, 2010
5,174
0
0
IceForce said:
I can't believe this thread is still going.

Has the question been answered yet? Or better still, has the OP provided some tangible examples of the types of reviews he doesn't want to read?
Yep, still going. Nope, no answers given. Nope, OP hasn't provided any examples of what he doesn't want - I've asked too..

Edit: well.. there's been some answers given. My bad.
RavingSturm said:
A lot of onionskins reacting to a simple request for referrals. Ugh! (Slithers back in portal leading into....)
This has already been discussed - it wasn't a simple request though was it? OP was needlessly dismissive/combative, so people responded in kind. He dun brung it on hi'self.
 

Abomination

New member
Dec 17, 2012
2,939
0
0
Vault101 said:
or another example (and this is a hypothetical I made up on the fly) lets say we have an action flick where manly mcShoot comes home to find his love interest has been raped, wherein he goes on a bloody path of revenge and kills everyone, at the end his love interest jumps into his arms and they make sweet post credits love..the end

so whats the problem there? rape is bad yes? and the movie says rape is bad doesn't it?

it does except when we really look at it its really full of issues. The main one being is that love interest isn't treated as a person her rape was merely a plot device, we don't see how SHE feels, what her experience of rape is, she has no voice. We only see how it relates to HIM, the rape was merely a device to get him to go on a violent killing spree (also subtly feeding into that old old idea that the rage comes not from her welfare but from the "damage" of his "property") not only that but by the end she's "fine" implying its something she can just "get over" [sub/]though on that note the problem there is implying that rape is the ame for everyone, that your damaged forever ect hence why current ideas on sexual assult are harmful, and why the perspectives of women both real and fictional are important[/sub]
See, that's the projection of a bias. According to me he's pissed someone would harm someone he loves in such a manner and found the action abhorrent. Rape bad. Rapists bad. Revenge!

I also believe anything can be used as a plot device and in doing so it doesn't "feed" into an idea unless it's one you already hold. Call me crazy, but a movie about how a rape victim deals with the emotions of the event isn't going to sell as many tickets as one about a guy (or girl) avenging her.

What does the movie intend on being? By your description it's an action flick wherein a fellow beats/kills the living shit out of a bunch of irredeemable degenerates. You judge it based on the action scenes, fight chirography, special effects and camera work. A plot device isn't a message, it's just a plot device. Nothing more, nothing less.

When I want a review of an action movie I want it to tell me about the ACTION in the MOVIE.

OR, of course, you could read into it showing how men are base repulsive or violent creatures.

Intention is oh so significant when it comes to judging a piece of art. I'm not going to talk about how a hammer has issues because it's claw performed poorly as a screw driver and stripped the baring from my screws.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
18,847
0
0
Abomination said:
[snip]See, that's the projection of a bias. According to me he's pissed someone would harm someone he loves in such a manner and found the action abhorrent. Rape bad. Rapists bad. Revenge!
yeah thats the intention and how its read but my point still stands, there's still a lot of problematic shit there when looked at through a critical eye

again most of the crap you see is for the most part [i/]unintentional[/i] because its a product of our society and our society has issues with women, or if not that the fact that male characters usually get the spotlight more often than not, I can list the dumb archtypes women often get shoved into but we'd be here all day

[quote/]I also believe anything can be used as a plot device[/quote]
yes but that doesn't mean it can't be fucked up royally especially when made by people who lack a certain perspective...see also: the rape scene in Show Girls which mabye not the *most* offensive thing ever was completely nonsensical

[quote/]and in doing so it doesn't "feed" into an idea unless it's one you already hold.[/quote]
whatever ideas one holds will come through via framing, and even then it doesn't nessicarlyl makes somone overly sexist it just might mean x never occurred to them

[quote/]Call me crazy, but a movie about how a rape victim deals with the emotions of the event isn't going to sell as many tickets as one about a guy (or girl) avenging her.[/quote]
we can get into genres/quality/whatsells/the really annoying way people worship capitalism when it suits them later because this point is both vague irrelevant and quite frankly disingenuous

[quote/]What does the movie intend on being? By your description it's an action flick wherein a fellow beats/kills the living shit out of a bunch of irredeemable degenerates. You judge it based on the action scenes, fight chirography, special effects and camera work. A plot device isn't a message, it's just a plot device. Nothing more, nothing less.

When I want a review of an action movie I want it to tell me about the ACTION in the MOVIE.
[/quote]
these things are not irrelevant

[i/]"I don't want nun ah that thinkin in muh mo-shun pictcha's cuz thinkin ain't waht ah go to thuh mo-shun piccha's for"[/i] <-much like the acceptance of capitalism this is something people ONLY do when somone brings up sexism, you can';t just claim something isn't supposed to be thought about to absolve it of criticism, much like "its a joke" or "satire" are not "get out of criticism free" cards

yes people enjoy dumb shit all the time and YES people judge something for what it is, Everobody loves raymond is a dumb American sitcom but its actually funny for a dumb American sitcom....and it ALSO skirts the line on some tired BS old gender stuff,

if I want to call Everbody loves raymond or dumb action movie sexist [b/]then they are perfectly valid critcisms to make[/b] ESPECIALLY considering both of these things can be considered big cultural fixtures so damn fucking right they are worth anaylyisis and criticism and appealing to the fact theyre "just x" is disingenuous at best and willful ignorance at worst
 

Abomination

New member
Dec 17, 2012
2,939
0
0
Vault101 said:
Abomination said:
[snip]See, that's the projection of a bias. According to me he's pissed someone would harm someone he loves in such a manner and found the action abhorrent. Rape bad. Rapists bad. Revenge!
yeah thats the intention and how its read but my point still stands, there's still a lot of problematic shit there when looked at through a critical eye

again most of the crap you see is for the most part [i/]unintentional[/i] because its a product of our society and our society has issues with women, or if not that the fact that male characters usually get the spotlight more often than not, I can list the dumb archtypes women often get shoved into but we'd be here all day
And I in turn could do the same with men. But that's the thing - everything, by those standards of a "critical eye" is sexist/racist.
[quote/]I also believe anything can be used as a plot device
yes but that doesn't mean it can't be fucked up royally especially when made by people who lack a certain perspective...see also: the rape scene in Show Girls which mabye not the *most* offensive thing ever was completely nonsensical [/quote]What perspective do they lack? It's a hypothetical revenge flick we're talking about here. Just because a rape occurs does not mean that rape is somehow acceptable, washed away, not considered or anything of the sort. It just means a rape happened to the main character's spouse and it enraged him. To jump to the conclusion that it's because she's his "property" should be backed by showing him treat her as property - otherwise it's just confirmation bias.

and in doing so it doesn't "feed" into an idea unless it's one you already hold.
whatever ideas one holds will come through via framing, and even then it doesn't nessicarlyl makes somone overly sexist it just might mean x never occurred to them
No, the ideas are already held by the viewer but you are right in how the media can be framed determines a lot. But unless it's framed in a way one shouldn't assume the worst of intentions/messages when there are viable alternatives also available. It's possible to just say "not enough proof either way" before condemning a piece of media as racist/sexist.

Call me crazy, but a movie about how a rape victim deals with the emotions of the event isn't going to sell as many tickets as one about a guy (or girl) avenging her.
we can get into genres/quality/whatsells/the really annoying way people worship capitalism when it suits them later because this point is both vague irrelevant and quite frankly disingenuous
It's hardly irrelevant since it's the primary function of action flicks - make money. They're not art pieces, it's about getting bums on seats and sales at the ticket counter. It's about watching a man inflict righteous vengeance upon a bunch of other men for daring to harm an individual he holds dear. It's possible to be protective without being possessive.

What does the movie intend on being? By your description it's an action flick wherein a fellow beats/kills the living shit out of a bunch of irredeemable degenerates. You judge it based on the action scenes, fight chirography, special effects and camera work. A plot device isn't a message, it's just a plot device. Nothing more, nothing less.

When I want a review of an action movie I want it to tell me about the ACTION in the MOVIE.
these things are not irrelevant

[i/]"I don't want nun ah that thinkin in muh mo-shun pictcha's cuz thinkin ain't waht ah go to thuh mo-shun piccha's for"[/i] <-much like the acceptance of capitalism this is something people ONLY do when somone brings up sexism, you can';t just claim something isn't supposed to be thought about to absolve it of criticism, much like "its a joke" or "satire" are not "get out of criticism free" cards
I don't know, is Michelangelo's David the worship of the superior male form? Is it just the art of human sculpture? A feat of trade application? It's also possible to criticize incorrectly - especially when one is condemning media as sexist/racist.

yes people enjoy dumb shit all the time and YES people judge something for what it is, Everobody loves raymond is a dumb American sitcom but its actually funny for a dumb American sitcom....and it ALSO skirts the line on some tired BS old gender stuff,

if I want to call Everbody loves raymond or dumb action movie sexist [b/]then they are perfectly valid critcisms to make[/b] ESPECIALLY considering both of these things can be considered big cultural fixtures so damn fucking right they are worth anaylyisis and criticism and appealing to the fact theyre "just x" is disingenuous at best and willful ignorance at worst
I would say the shoe is on the other foot. You don't go to Burger King expecting a gourmet meal and you don't go into an action flick expecting it to deliver a message as to acceptable gender roles.

Bad things happening to women isn't sexist. Men doing good things isn't sexist. Neither is the opposite.

These are stories, reflections of society. Tropes maybe, containing adult content possibly and can cause discomfort in some viewers probably... but it's NOT sexist by any reasonable definition of the word.

There is no message that what is happening is expected of particular genders.

Was John Wick sexist?
 

Flibbertigibbet

New member
Dec 23, 2014
1
0
0
Just use the GGBlocker chrome extension. When it redirects to archive today you know the site is tagged as "problematic";)

The reason why the "problematic" reviews issue is so obnoxious is because those people never have legitimate complaints, it boils down to dishonest pushing of agendas, basically propaganda no one wants shoved down their throats. If something really is "problematic" I expect proof, and basically every time they have nothing other than the fact that they are offended based on their own ignorant view of the world, and that doesn't add value to any discussion. Its just the new puritanical/religious fundamentalist mindset which cloaks itself under the guise of being "socially aware", when they are just the busy bodies who have existed in one form or another in every decade... the whole "I worry about violence/sexuality" having an affect on you is the new "I pray for your soul"...

Have you heard about the word? The word of god? Do you want to be saved?

Have you heard about the word? The word of feminism? Do you want to be saved?

Have you heard about the word? The word of social justice? Do you want to be saved?


Its no surprise that most of the media outlets which do resort to such "problematic" reviews pushing their "socially aware" agendas are themselves staffed by one type of person, mostly white people of a certain type, diversity is never something that they actually practice for themselves...
 
Apr 24, 2008
3,912
0
0
Websites? Don't know about websites. I have some youtube channels that I take with varying amounts of salt.

- Worth A Buy

- Gggmanlives

- Elder-Geek

- TB (largely for the technical information)

Maybe give them a try.
 

Dr. Crawver

Doesn't know why he has premium
Nov 20, 2009
1,100
0
0
Oh...this thread again. Looks like it's been pretty gone over though, so I'll just sigh at the fact that these sorts of threads keep popping up.

Honestly the first post nailed it. You're not going to get it because games don't exist in a cultural vacuum, and these issues, while not important to you, are important to others.
 

Dr. Crawver

Doesn't know why he has premium
Nov 20, 2009
1,100
0
0
TheKasp said:
Frankly, I'm amazed. Where do you guys get your reviews from to have such an oversaturation of politics and social issues in reviews? I have to really go out of my way to find such commentary, in nearly all cases reviews treat games as objects, not discussing any artistic themes, underlying messages or politics but just listing down functionality and at best a synopsis of the plot with "uh, the twist at the end is 100/8 bacons" or "I liked/disliked it".
But bayonetta 2 didn't get a perfect review that one time and the reviewer said he thought it was sexist, therefore corrupt SJWs.

Or something like that, I dunno. Whenever people then start talking about points being docked off I wholeheartedly switch off. I rarely look at the score of a review, I care more about the words inside it.
 

MrFalconfly

New member
Sep 5, 2011
913
0
0
TheKasp said:
MrFalconfly said:
Hell her gameplay vid, showed her, going out of her way to kill those strippers. Something no other player ever did.

... How do you know that? How the fuck do you know if "no other player ever did" that?
I researched.

I watched other people's playthroughs, other people's Let's Plays.

Conclusion regarding the usual clientèle, of the Hitman games: They are perfectionists who want to go through the game efficiently, and with as low a bodycount as possible.

And just because a game gives you the freedom to be a prick, or fuck up, doesn't mean it's sexist. Especially not when the player does something that's counter to the design and implementation of a level (killing innocent bystanders, whom you are there to help).
 

MrFalconfly

New member
Sep 5, 2011
913
0
0
TheKasp said:
@MrFalconfly (because quoting is broken for me atm)

I did that.

Your research is invalidated.

On a more serious note: Oh boy, really? A few lets play videos of people who most likely completed the game multiple times and did this exact thing you claim they didn't?

Your evidence and research into it is shit. Easy as that.
And you behaving like the mother of all bellends in a game, means that the game promotes bellend-behaviour?

Sorry mate, I don't see it like that.

At the most such behaviour only puts a mark on you, the player, and not the game.

Let me rewind back to this sequence in the game. Why would the players kill those bystanders (strippers)? What would they get out of it? What would motivate the killing of the very people you are meant to help?

There's literally no reason to kill those bystanders except for maybe trying to force a point that the game might harbour "problematic" content, and even then it only showcases that the player is an arse of such titanic proportions that a fart would result in the entire East Coast being flattened.
 

Pseudonym

Regular Member
Legacy
Nov 4, 2020
802
8
13
Country
Nederland
Genocidicles said:
San Martin said:
Maybe if you can give a single good reason why discussions of racism, sexism and homophobia are "pointless bullshit" in the context of videogames,
Because racism, sexism and homophobia have no effect on the gameplay, which is the most important part of a video game.

Yes, I played through all of Mass Effect, Spec Ops: the line, Bastion, Fallout 3 and NV, the stanley parable and plenty of other games for their gameplay. It had nothing to do with the story, the music, the graphics and art, the message or anything else. The medium of videogames is entirely onedimensional and determined by gameplay. The only thing that matters is the gameplay. And anyone who doesn't agree with me on that needs to be boycotted until they see games in the same shallow way I do. So everyone can walk in lockstep behind me. Cool story, brah.