Anyone get the hate for Skyrim?

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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trunkage said:
Phoenixmgs said:
I don't really get how an RPG can be considered a good game if the gameplay isn't good and the writing isn't good. I couldn't care less about Bethesda RPGs because they fail at the 2 of the most important things for an RPG. From a few videos I've seen on Fallout 4, it barely has any role-playing in it at all.
Exploration is the third pillar of RPG I think. Every game fails at it, except for TES. You cant light out and go anywhere in the Witcher or Baulder's Gate. You have to follow a path. Another pillar is choices. TES is terrible for choices during quests. Also, letting you be evil and kill NPCs. But they allow you the freedom to play any way you want in other ways and go anywhere you please.

The last pillar I can think of is consequences. I have yet to meet a game that is good at that.
I don't think exploration is a necessity as Mass Effect is a great role-playing experience with very little exploration. Although, I do think Bethesda is pretty good with regards to exploration but if I don't care about the characters, story, quests, world or the gameplay, then exploration doesn't really help that much.
 

Trunkage

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Drathnoxis said:
(First, I would agree the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild are some of the best quests)

Ohhh.. the name the random quests game. I like this one

There's a quests where time and space have fold in on itself caused by dark forces and is causing sleepless in residents close by.

There's been a murder, but its not as it seems. An ancient people have returned... (actually one I remember trying to look for in Morrowind)

Hangover 4: Skyrim edition. And apparently you've been Zach Galifianakis

Personally, I was getting bored of the quests in TES by Morrowind. I had played lots of Daggerfall and had gotten over the troupes rampant in TES by then. People love Morrowind because it was the first they played. I still love Morrowind but I'm not pretending that it was prefect.

Phoenixmgs said:
trunkage said:
Phoenixmgs said:
I don't really get how an RPG can be considered a good game if the gameplay isn't good and the writing isn't good. I couldn't care less about Bethesda RPGs because they fail at the 2 of the most important things for an RPG. From a few videos I've seen on Fallout 4, it barely has any role-playing in it at all.
Exploration is the third pillar of RPG I think. Every game fails at it, except for TES. You cant light out and go anywhere in the Witcher or Baulder's Gate. You have to follow a path. Another pillar is choices. TES is terrible for choices during quests. Also, letting you be evil and kill NPCs. But they allow you the freedom to play any way you want in other ways and go anywhere you please.

The last pillar I can think of is consequences. I have yet to meet a game that is good at that.
I don't think exploration is a necessity as Mass Effect is a great role-playing experience with very little exploration. Although, I do think Bethesda is pretty good with regards to exploration but if I don't care about the characters, story, quests, world or the gameplay, then exploration doesn't really help that much.
Also note that resources have to be spread across these pillars (that I made up.) Mass Effect doesn't focus on it (at least after 1) and they can spend resources on the other. Skyrim focuses on exploration above all else. Trying to play it like a different type of RPG will annoy people.

Don't expect the Witcher to be Baulder's Gate or Skyrim and you'll have a great time
 

Urgh76

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I just don't get it either! Here everyone can be anyone in Skyrim, play as they want and experience a lush world filled with creations the likes of which the gaming world has never seen before! It's an absolute masterpiece, and one that I personally have played and bought time and time again, my pleasure only INCREASING with each instance!

Skyrim is the only thing that brings joy into my life, and I can't for the life of me understand why any of these chuckleheads won't just go out and buy New Skyrim Collector's Edition[sup]TM[/sup] to pass down in their family for generations.
 

Mcgeezaks

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Urgh76 said:


I just don't get it either! Here everyone can be anyone in Skyrim, play as they want and experience a lush world filled with creations the likes of which the gaming world has never seen before! It's an absolute masterpiece, and one that I personally have played and bought time and time again, my pleasure only INCREASING with each instance!

Skyrim is the only thing that brings joy into my life, and I can't for the life of me understand why any of these chuckleheads won't just go out and buy New Skyrim Collector's Edition[sup]TM[/sup] to pass down in their family for generations.
We all play Skyrim down here

 

Mothro

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I prefer Oblivion to Skyrim and Morrowind is up there with Oblivion but Morrowind is hard to play today. I prefer to play the games with only official content. Mods are a headache without the Steam workshop and even then I just don't care about most mods. I don't care about graphic mods, equipment mods or even UI mods.

Skyrim traded the leveling system with perks and it wasn't a worthy trade off. The dragons were underwhelming and turned into Skyrim's Oblivion gates but they were harder to just ignore than Oblivion gates. The quests were a downgrade. Getting rid of classes didn't make you more free because once you get far enough into a perk tree you were locked in anyway.

Overall I thought it was lackluster compared to the previous two games.
 

Bad Jim

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Urgh76 said:
Skyrim is the only thing that brings joy into my life, and I can't for the life of me understand why any of these chuckleheads won't just go out and buy New Skyrim Collector's Edition[sup]TM[/sup] to pass down in their family for generations.
Because it is tied to your Steam account and cannot actually be passed down for generations.
 

JemothSkarii

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I hate Skyrim, so I can try and field this one.

Skyrim at it's core feels like the epitome of a Triple A game; strip out some depth and add some flashing lights and start hyping up the 'NEXT ELDER SCROLLS GAME! THE RPG YOU PLAY HOW YOU WANT TO PLAY!'

I also just recently woke up so my thoughts may be muddled.

There's nothing I really like about the game, between the floaty combat where anything outside of stealth 'n' bows feels pointless, the writing is abysmal, I can't even really remember a quest/questline I like. The Thieves' Guild was promising, then it turned into 'MUH NIGHTINGALES: The Dungeon Crawl', while the Dark Brotherhood felt like it was going to try and be Oblivion's plotline for them but one-up it.

Daedric Quests still felt by the numbers except for maybe Sheogorath's and... uh... Sanguinius? Even then, the latter was mostly for the award.

Even exploring isn't that fun; either draugr dungeons or bandit dungeons, and maybe if you want something a bit more interesting FALMER. To tie back into Quests Radiant Quests will shove you into caves and such. It really felt like now that they had 'infinite quests' they could skimp out on the writing and such because they had the BETHESDA SANDBOX downpat.

Towns felt lifeless and more importantly empty, especially when you go to the capital and it's like 16 buildings and some inhabitants thrown in. This comes in really hard with the Civil War Questline, as these are boring little places and now I have to help people I don't care about fighting for reasons poorly utilised... it all just comes together.

"But what about the dragons?"

Ah yes, 'The Legend of Screaming Mimi and her Asgard Vacation'. (... I also don't think playing as a Nebelwerfer or a Calliope would help either)

The shouts felt... very basic. I never used them to great effect, or it never felt that way. Comes back to to floaty pointless combat system. Sure, the Poster Child Shout causes knockdown, but you're not gonna get much damage output out because the enemies scale with you-

OH YEAH, THE SCALING!

Boy oh boy this was shit. Pretty sure they also pulled this crap in Oblivion and it came back with a fucking vengeance. This is really exacerbated by that goddamn leveling system, the origin of 'PERKS ARE A GOOD LEVELING SYSTEM RIGHT GUYS?' Bethesda got in their damn head.

It didn't feel progression.

Like, in Fallout and such you did get perks, sure, but they usually weren't just a percentile increase, that was usually handled by the Skill points or attributes. Skill points in this solely seemed to work as an unlock gate. Perks that would either just unlock automatically in other games or ones that should probably just be unlocked in the first place. So in the end they give such a small increase that it doesn't get you anywhere.
... Unless you level things that aren't combat. Good luck getting anywhere without it champerino, cos them Draugr DeathGods are gonna stomp you into paste.

You can also see this occur in Fallout 4. The infinite quests, just 'splore, don't worry about the writing, sure the combat's improve but better combat's not what I play Fallout for.
Neither is Settlement Building.
Going off track. But in regards to Fallout 4, it admittedly did intensify the dislike towards Skyrim for being a progenitor to the product that is Fallout 4.
But that doesn't matter, Skyrim is it's own smelly rotten basket of eggs and I can judge it on 'Being Skyrim' alone.

Throwing aside the butt-fuckingly retarded argument of 'OH WELL AS LONG AS YOU CAN MOD IT TO BE GOOD', a practise which I'm sure is what lead us to where we are now, I modded this to the point almost rivaling my New Vegas, a verifiable lore friendly monster that if I so much move one piece it all comes tumbling down and I have no idea how to rebuild it, and I just know there's some lost mods in there.

Just a bit over a year ago, I went on a quest to mod Skyrim enough that I could find some enjoyment in it, and I failed.
I am no slouch to modding these games, I have the patience of a bear in a coma, I spent days getting this game modded. Fix the combat, fix the magic, the stealth, add in some quests, breathe life into towns, remove scaling, change the leveling, deepen mechanics, fix bugs, add companions and such, add new things without it loking like a nightmare, gussy it up a bit...

It didn't work. Sure, while it did clean up some of my complaints, it still was Skyrim, that stank just permeates all through it. Even with improved combat it still didn't feel good, even with better magic it still felt like the same old magic.

I changed it extensively and it didn't feel much different.

That's when I gave up on attempting to see why people love it. I cannot do it. I played it even on the PS3 back at launch and the only reason I did so was because I was stuck with friends for a week and friends can make the worst game enjoyable. I even managed to push through the stupid PS3 gradual slowdown bug.

So in short: I hate Skyrim.
I hate what it was, what it is, and everything that it has lead to. It's a game that should have never been the darling of so many people and one that has so many versions. It is a shallow, cut down skeleton of a game devoid of any heart or... anything.

Not even mods could fix it, the darlings of PC gaming.

Most of all I'm sad, because Skyrim is the biggest example for me of the games industry on it's rush downhill.
Yet so many people were fine with it.
 

BarkBarker

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Because the fun is janked to shit so I can't enjoy it the way they built it unless I learn to deal with the copious amounts of self loathing.
 

Axelthefox

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I think after the battle with Miraak in apocrypha,you can reset some perks or such.
 
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BabyfartsMcgeezaks said:
It's boring, don't know what else to say

I got 30 hours in it but that's only because I've tried to get in to it about 10 times but I just end up getting bored out of my mind.
Same. I may have put a little less than 30 hours into it, but half of that time i spent in the character creator. Can't believe how disinterested i was after one quest i made.

Canadamus Prime said:
Probably because it has been done to death. Ported and remastered and HD updated and etc. etc. God Bethesda can we get a new game already?
And this. Bethesda and Todd have been really milking Skyrim's success, probably where most of the "hate" comes nowadays.
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/266/282/bf8.jpg
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008Zulu_v1legacy

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I think that because they have re-released a 6 year old game, with the exact same 6 year old game breaking bugs in it. Shoddy port is shoddy.
 

Fox12

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I'm honestly just sick of Besthesda games. I'll still give Fallout New Vegas and Fallout 3 a look every once in a while, but they honestly don't age well at all. And the newer ones just don't have the same spark. Fallout 4 took too many steps in the wrong direction.
 

Ender910_v1legacy

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Gotta say, it's actually something I've put off for a while, largely because compared to how much I loved the story and just about everything else in Cyrodiil from Oblivion, I just couldn't bring myself to garner the same level of interest in the Nord-focused backdrop for Skyrim.

Also, dragons absolutely bore me. Or at least most depictions I've seen of them anyway, with a few rare exceptions.
 

Darth Rosenberg

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Ender910 said:
Gotta say, it's actually something I've put off for a while, largely because compared to how much I loved the story and just about everything else in Cyrodiil from Oblivion, I just couldn't bring myself to garner the same level of interest in the Nord-focused backdrop for Skyrim.
Subjectivity is as subjectivity does: I felt Oblivion's 'story' was inane, cartoony garbage [after Morrowind], and loathed its uber-mass market, fearfully conservative chocolate-box take on medieval European world design.

It seemed like a pro-console culture change of design philosophy - and Fallout 3, Skyrim, and Fallout 4 has exactly proven that to be the case.

...however, even as I was tearing Oblivion to shreds for being a pale, artless mainstream sibling to Morrowind's esoteric, idiosyncratic brilliance, I still had gameplay fun with it. And by the time Skyrim - and especially Fallout 4 - came out, I was mostly at peace with the new, horribly less ambitious and creative Bethesda. And so I greatly enjoyed my time with Skyrim, and have returned to it recently on Xbox with mods.

For me, Bethesda's open-worlders are just great RP canvasses (well, Fallout 4's another matter... ), and so I'll always be able to enjoy their worlds because I'm using the tools provided to create my own variously emergent narratives. Something like the alt-start mod expands its RP scope even further, too, so modded Skyrim's obviously an even richer experience. So as 'bad' as their TES's and Fallout's tend to be (re mechanics, writing, story, etc), there's still no other game offering anything comparable with regards to freedom, world size, and RP potential.

Also, dragons absolutely bore me. Or at least most depictions I've seen of them anyway, with a few rare exceptions.
You don't have to play Skyrim with dragons. In vanilla you can restrict it to one showing at the start, and modded you'll never have to see a single one.

Post-Morrowind, all of Bethesda's TES's and Fallout's have had rather terrible or poorly executed MQ's, but these games aren't 'about' the main stories, per se, and so for me it doesn't have that big an impact on my enjoyment.

Other than that, I share your apathy towards dragons. Sometimes they could be impressive, dramatic moments in Skyrim, but eventually you over-level and 9 out of 10 dragons become little more than randomly spawning resources for crafting materials. That said, such issues are frankly common to RPG's in general, so balancing issues like that are a broader design challenge.
 

Kerg3927

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I don't like it because I like an RPG to write an engaging story for me (e.g. Mass Effect trilogy), not merely provide an empty canvas of scenery for me to write my own story in. It's just not my type of RPG.
 

The Rogue Wolf

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It's always seemed to me that the primary complaint about Skyrim and Oblivion was always the same- "It's not another Morrowind!".

Funny, I count that to be a point in their favor. I decided that I hated Morrowind after I put an arrow dead-center into a cliff racer and yet the game told me that I "missed". And then there were the constant, repetitive treks across featureless ashen plains, the high number of "well, you should have known that would happen" quest failures and deaths... maybe it's because I'm not a masochist with a lot of time on my hands.

(And yes, I finished Morrowind anyway.)
 

Neurotic Void Melody

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I liked it. But now medieval (Tolkien-esque) fantasy has seriously run its' course for me. There are no surprises, no wonder, just bollocks. Nothing personal to Skyrim. At least it didn't chain you to a dull main protag like Geralt for the entirety of the journey though. So there's that.
 

Trunkage

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The Rogue Wolf said:
It's always seemed to me that the primary complaint about Skyrim and Oblivion was always the same- "It's not another Morrowind!".

Funny, I count that to be a point in their favor. I decided that I hated Morrowind after I put an arrow dead-center into a cliff racer and yet the game told me that I "missed". And then there were the constant, repetitive treks across featureless ashen plains, the high number of "well, you should have known that would happen" quest failures and deaths... maybe it's because I'm not a masochist with a lot of time on my hands.

(And yes, I finished Morrowind anyway.)
Ah... Baulder's Gate syndrome. Spend a couple of minutes trying hit something. Way to make the game stupid
 

Ender910_v1legacy

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Darth Rosenberg said:
Subjectivity is as subjectivity does: I felt Oblivion's 'story' was inane, cartoony garbage [after Morrowind], and loathed its uber-mass market, fearfully conservative chocolate-box take on medieval European world design.
Oh I don't disagree. I never played Morrowind, even though I've almost always been a PC gamer, but Oblivion was still my first kind of experience in an open-ended, free-roaming kind of RPG of that kind, and it just happened to hit all the right notes, for me personally. When Skyrim was announced though none of what I saw or heard really hit those same kind of notes.

Darth Rosenberg said:
For me, Bethesda's open-worlders are just great RP canvasses (well, Fallout 4's another matter... ), and so I'll always be able to enjoy their worlds because I'm using the tools provided to create my own variously emergent narratives. Something like the alt-start mod expands its RP scope even further, too, so modded Skyrim's obviously an even richer experience. So as 'bad' as their TES's and Fallout's tend to be (re mechanics, writing, story, etc), there's still no other game offering anything comparable with regards to freedom, world size, and RP potential.
Indeed. If my issues with Skyrim weren't so heavily tied in with the regional setting I likely wouldn't have offered much complaint. Unfortunately, it's one of the tougher things to give any kind of a meaningful makeover through mods, especially for an Elder Scrolls game. I might be more eager to give it a go whenever Skywind or Skyblivion come out.

Darth Rosenberg said:
You don't have to play Skyrim with dragons. In vanilla you can restrict it to one showing at the start, and modded you'll never have to see a single one.

Post-Morrowind, all of Bethesda's TES's and Fallout's have had rather terrible or poorly executed MQ's, but these games aren't 'about' the main stories, per se, and so for me it doesn't have that big an impact on my enjoyment.

Other than that, I share your apathy towards dragons. Sometimes they could be impressive, dramatic moments in Skyrim, but eventually you over-level and 9 out of 10 dragons become little more than randomly spawning resources for crafting materials. That said, such issues are frankly common to RPG's in general, so balancing issues like that are a broader design challenge.
Aye. It wasn't so much a complaint about dragons existing in the game so much as a general apathy at all the excitement I'd always hear people have about them, in regards to Skyrim. And maybe in a general sense, I dunno. Fighting one, especially through even the slightest of conventional means doesn't strike me as a very fun ordeal. I don't mind challenging fights, but fighting a dragon is pretty one-sided without some form of magic involved. Or a ground-to-air missile launcher.