Are there comic characters you think are better off in a self-contained universe rather than a shared universe?

Cicada 5

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If so which ones? And this isn't just limited to Marvel and DC.
 

Hawki

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I'd argue that the X-Men don't really fit the wider Marvel universe. People seem pretty chill with superpowers on one hand, but mutants (humans with superpowers) are feared on the other.

Batman, obviously. Just doesn't work to have some random guy dressed as a bat who punches mobsters hang out with an alien, another alien and a deity or two.
This.
 

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Batman, obviously. Just doesn't work to have some random guy dressed as a bat who punches mobsters hang out with an alien, another alien and a deity or two.
This is kind of even worse in the Marvel universe, since DC heroes usually operate out their own home city. The Batfamily. Gotham. Superman. Metropolis. Flash. Central City. And so on. The whole "why is Batman in the League, or doesn't Superman swoop in to bust Joker in under a second?" thing can at least be somewhat excused by the various heroes having their own turf to mind.

But on the Marvel side? Spidey, Daredevil, Luke Cage, Strange, Moon Knight, Iron Fist, Punisher, Fantastic Four, Defenders, New Warriors, Avengers and probably a whole lot I'm forgetting. All based in New York City. Westchester's only like an hour drive away, so add in the X-Men too. Makes the question of why city wide threat x is even a thing a really stupid one when there's like 200 supers of wildly varying power levels around the corner.
 

Thaluikhain

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Oh, I remember a few issues of Supergirl, where the sun was going out or something and she had to deal with this by herself. Cause nobody else was doing anything about it. For some reason.
 

Hawki

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I'll add Green Arrow to this, least in the Arrowverse. Stand alone, it's fine. But in a universe of speedsters, super-powered kryptonians, and magic-users, I'm supposed to be impressed by Robin Hood 2.0? And he's somehow meant to not be dead weight?
 

Gordon_4

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The Punisher. He's better as a lone wolf because there's no good reason someone like Luke Cage or hell, even Thor smash the stupid ponce into oblivion for his complete inability to look past his own nose and pain and subsequently fuck things up for other people.
 

Bob_McMillan

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I've always thought the X-men, when considering the whole Marvel universe, are ultra stupid. The treatment mutants get just make absolutely NO sense when other superheroes are idolized.

This one's kind of obvious, but every character or franchise DC bought and tried to cram into their superhero universe.
 
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Cicada 5

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The Punisher. He's better as a lone wolf because there's no good reason someone like Luke Cage or hell, even Thor smash the stupid ponce into oblivion for his complete inability to look past his own nose and pain and subsequently fuck things up for other people.
In fairness to the Punisher, he mostly "fucks things up" for the most depraved, unsympathetic criminals. In fact, he's caused less collateral damage than most superheroes.
 

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Constantine. Hellblazer was great because it kept the stupidity that is mainline DC comics away and let mature storytelling thrive. The moment the braindead morons running DC brought him back to the mainline is where he became a caricature.
 

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I'll add Green Arrow to this, least in the Arrowverse. Stand alone, it's fine. But in a universe of speedsters, super-powered kryptonians, and magic-users, I'm supposed to be impressed by Robin Hood 2.0? And he's somehow meant to not be dead weight?
Funny enough, Justice League Unlimited acknowledges this in a certain way. GA was brought to the JL to act as some mortality chain for the League if they ever decided to go rouge. Even he knew there was not much he could do to stop them and he call them out on this mind set. Despite knowing how outclassed he is in power scale, does not stop the dude from trying taking on more powerful villains.

I've always thought the X-men, when considering the whole Marvel universe, are ultra stupid. The treatment mutants get just make absolutely NO sense when other superheroes are idolized.

This one's kind of obvious, but every character or franchise DC bought and tried to cram into their superhero universe.
I agree with the X-Men example as it suffers the most from this. Despite that, I usually don't have a problem with crossovers along they are done well.
 

Gordon_4

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In fairness to the Punisher, he mostly "fucks things up" for the most depraved, unsympathetic criminals. In fact, he's caused less collateral damage than most superheroes.
No he also ruins perfectly good stings and undercover operations run by SHIELD and the like. Plus he's sanctimonious as fuck about it. He's more compelling - but I still hate him - in things like Punisher Max where there aren't other superheroes.
 
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Cicada 5

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No he also ruins perfectly good stings and undercover operations run by SHIELD and the like. Plus he's sanctimonious as fuck about it. He's more compelling - but I still hate him - in things like Punisher Max where there aren't other superheroes.
I know the Punisher: War Zone movie dealt with him accidentally killing an undercover FBI agent. I don't recall him ruining any SHIELD or sting operations in the comics but I could have missed those.
 

Hawki

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Funny enough, Justice League Unlimited acknowledges this in a certain way. GA was brought to the JL to act as some mortality chain for the League if they ever decided to go rouge. Even he knew there was not much he could do to stop them and he call them out on this mind set. Despite knowing how outclassed he is in power scale, does not stop the dude from trying taking on more powerful villains.



Huh. That's...unusually mature for a cartoon with spandex-clad superheroes. Interesting.

Even then, Arrowverse Ollie can't even claim to be the moral compass. Or, he can...before he went down the route of "killing is bad, m'kay?" because the writers decided he wanted to be like Batman or something. Despite the fact that season 3 onward has to convolute itself to justify non-killing in most cases.

Yeah, sometimes I like my vigilantes dark and gritty. Bite me.
 

09philj

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Huh. That's...unusually mature for a cartoon with spandex-clad superheroes. Interesting.
Basically all the DC animated series Bruce Timm oversaw from Batman: The Animated Series to Justice League Unlimited are like this to some extent. They've got a very carefully balanced tone where they can deal with moral shades of grey without going off the deep end into being completely grim dark gritty.
 

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Basically all the DC animated series Bruce Timm oversaw from Batman: The Animated Series to Justice League Unlimited are like this to some extent. They've got a very carefully balanced tone where they can deal with moral shades of grey without going off the deep end into being completely grim dark gritty.
Agreed. Though they did screw up in a couple of areas. My problem some retconning that didn't need to be happen that ties with Batman Beyond. Also, Timm and his team really screwed the pooch with The Kiilling Joke adaption. You already know why.
 

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This is one of my big problems with most of the superhero comics from the west. They're all interconnected and cannibalizing eachother's popularity. If something is doing bad, just have spiderman show up in it, and now all the spiderman people will wanna read your dumb OC's story just cause spiderman also is there. It's incestuous and props up terrible work.


If anything, what you wanna do is prop up sub-chars who start off in a bigger char's story, then give them their own story where they're the main char, and have nothing to do with the original big name char any more, at most have them show up in like a small cameo or something, if at all.


Now, I appreciate complex webs of relationships and all that, but you shouldn't add to that with different people making up their OCs and sticking em in, you add to that by the original creator of the char making more sub chars and giving them roles that fit.


This ties together with my issue where instead of having stories end and making new stories and heroes they just pass out the same character to new people so they do their take on it, and keep it artificially alive longer. I much rather those new people came up with their own universe and OC than just did another batman story where their batman is a totally different person to the one before.
 

Cicada 5

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Huh. That's...unusually mature for a cartoon with spandex-clad superheroes. Interesting.

Even then, Arrowverse Ollie can't even claim to be the moral compass. Or, he can...before he went down the route of "killing is bad, m'kay?" because the writers decided he wanted to be like Batman or something. Despite the fact that season 3 onward has to convolute itself to justify non-killing in most cases.

Yeah, sometimes I like my vigilantes dark and gritty. Bite me.
Western superheroes, at least the ones by the Big 2, all too often have a very immature depiction of killing and the various nuances.
 

happyninja42

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Batman, obviously. Just doesn't work to have some random guy dressed as a bat who punches mobsters hang out with an alien, another alien and a deity or two.
I mean I don't mind them being in the same universe, but don't expect me to buy he's in the same weight class as literal gods who can atomize a planet from orbit.

OT: I think most work better in their own universes, but I don't mind if similar weight class heroes team up. Like the Defenders for example, are all low level powers, usually fighting low level threats.
 
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