Armchair legal advice needed.

[mavkiel]

Hey, I have a somewhat complicated question. Last month my father committed suicide, in his note we found out our house not only entered foreclosure but was even sold.

However, during the auction of the house, it sold for more then what was owed. My Dad was contacted by one of these vulture companies, and they cut him a check, for around 40% of what he would have gotten if he could have waited about 6 months or so. (Again, without me or my mother knowing about it)

To make matters even more complicated, my moms signature on the vultures contract was forged. And recently they filed a claim with the state on proceeds from that auction. Furthermore, in the claim they submitted to the court, they had my dad signing the contract with my mother, a month after he had passed.

So my question is twofold, is the contract still valid? What about the money they gave us upfront? Not sure if we will have to pay that, as it was not only predatory and would shock the conscious of the court, but they forged the signatures.

I know I should probably go to a lawyer, and have taken a half step in that direction. (Hiring another company in the same field to go after the vultures)

 

[mavkiel]

Slight update: The vulture firm is really screwed in my opinion. I got certified mail of the documents they submitted to the court. They have my dad and mom signing their contract a month after he died. To add even more detail, they even got it notarized. Funnily enough, they might end up going to federal jail if I understand the law. Not sure anyone would buy them acting in good faith after forging signatures and trying to get about 60% return on a 2-8 month investment. Also probably federal jail because of the amounts they are attempting to defraud us out of.

So it looks like a threefold issue, they contacted my Dad(which is a big nono from what I understand, third party companies are ok, but lawyers reaching out isn't). They didn't get my mother to sign the document (they forged it.). They didn't notarize document at the time of signing. I know this because my dad kept a digital copy of the agreement that had his signature, but no notary sig. Lastly, and most damning, they have my dad and mother signing a contract well after my dad had died. (So imo, it lends more credence to my claims that my mother never signed anything to begin with)

At this point I am tempted to make the vulture company fight me if they want their money back. Far as I am concerned, they attempted to scam not only me, but my mother. I just realized the scam in time to avoid the trap and walk away with their money.

 

[Xprimentyl]

Wow. Firstly, sorry for the unfortunate loss of your father and these ensuing seedy complications; no one deserves to have to go through something like this.

Secondly, as serious as this is, I?m not sure a gaming website forum is a good place for good advice. If you?ve not, I strongly encourage you to seek legal representation despite the apparent deluge of evidence in your favor. I?m many things; legally well-read I am not, but I do know the old adage is true: [He] who represents himself has a fool for a client. The law, on paper, is black and white, but legal issues tend to be swathed in shades of grey where lawyers and their firms mold themselves on their ability to shape that ambiguity to fit their desired narrative, for good or ill, and that often takes an intimate knowledge of law and legal precedents that the average Joe normally doesn?t have.

That?s all I?ll say about that; I sincerely hope this pans out in your favor, and again, my condolences.

 

[mavkiel]

Yeah this probably isn't the best place. But, my Dad basically destroyed my finances before he died. He drained my savings account down to $34 and maxed out my credit card. Oh and he maxed out my mothers and his credit card as well, to the tune of 30k. (Thankfully, collections for that card knocked the cost down to 14k) -- To add even more icing to the cake we found out we owed back taxes of around 10k.

I, just needed to vent a wee bit. Last few years I was working with my dad in his consulting business, and taking care of my mother, who has early onset dementia. So my social life is fairly nonexistent at this point. Oh and cant even talk to the neighbors we lived next to for years, as we had to move out into a rental.

I was joking with my neighbors, when I was packing boxes for the move, that I am just shy one dead dog for an epic country music song.

 

[mavkiel]

So yet another update, it turns out that when the vulture company delayed the second payment and we asked why it wasn't delivered, and gave our banking information, which they already had it would be considering continuing the contract.

In our defense, we didn't realize how badly screwed we were. That they forged signatures in the original contract. The second defense is that we can claim the deal was predatory. 40 cents on the dollar for a 2-8 month loan with zero legal complications strikes me as predatory. However I am not a lawyer. (Also them sending out a second set of forged signatures, clearly forged as my dad was dead when they claimed he signed it)

 

[mavkiel]

Well, had to file a police report. What a joy. Had to argue with the police about a crime being committed. Never mind I had an official copy of my dads death certificate, along with a signed(and notarized) contract the lawyers said my dad signed, a month after he died. So there is forgery of the name, and the notary either doing the forging, or just being corrupt as hell.

Then when they finally acknowledged, that well yes its a crime. Then they started arguing that they might not have jurisdiction. Why? Because they could have committed the forgery where I live, or in another area where their office is. In other words they were trying to weasel out of work. Their next line of trying to get out of doing the work, was that we actually received funds from the law firm, but they haven't gotten access to excess fund account yet. (It'd be like arguing that you haven't robbed a bank yet because the teller hasn't filled up the bag yet.)

 

[Xprimentyl]

It sounds like this is getting even messier. And if police are now begrudgingly involved, I again highly suggest you seek out legal representation ASAP; you?re in dire need of someone who speaks the language of the law fighting on your behalf.

 

[mavkiel]

Case update: On a weird note, the company that is trying to rip me off, canceled their previous claim on the excess foreclosure proceeds. -- But they resubmitted it now as if they have sole ownership of it. (Before they were claiming to be acting on our behalf)

The folks I hired are kind of scratching their heads about the maneuver, as it sort of implies they screwed up the first time around or were just trying to mislead us. This also ignores the whole issue of them not having the required signatures to begin with, which imo should concern them greatly.

Anyhow it will be somewhat amusing if this goes to trial. Can't imagine it'd look good for a lawyer, widowed wife of a Vietnam vet, that is disabled taken advantage by a lawfirm offering a predatory deal and forging signatures.

 

[mavkiel]

Yet another case update:

The company that forged signatures and had their forgery notarized, filed a motion to dismiss my lawyers move to get rid of their claim. From what I understand, that in order for a motion to dismiss to be granted they have to assume everything I asserted was right, but would still have no impact on the case..

So they are saying all of the below shouldn't matter:

Forged signatures - My mother never signed anything with them, and they even submitted one document with my dads signature dated and notarized a month after he died.

The contract signing period. By law they can't sign a person up immediately after a foreclosure, because folks aren't in their right mind. They are supposed to wait 30 days, they waited 14.

Predatory loan - 40 cents on the dollar for my excess proceeds, that had no legal complications and was flat out ours after the waiting period.

Claim shopping - Not sure how to explain this, they first submitted a claim to the court for our money, saying essentially they are working on our behalf. Then they later dropped it saying they have no interest in the claim. Then they refiled with the court, leaving our name out completely, and failing to mention their previous claim.


I am kind of shocked that they think such a motion would be granted. *sighs* On another front, my dad had some retirement benefits that kept getting deposited into my mothers banking account, I figured since the checks kept coming to her it was survivors benefits and whatnot. Today, they just withdrew 5 months worth of checks out of bank account without so much as a peep.. there should be a bloody law about doing that.

 

[mavkiel]

Well finally got to go before a judge. The opposing side, said it wouldn't matter if my mothers name was forged. It doesn't matter that the notary signed a contract fraudulently. (They can't deny that one, because my dad was dead when they forged and dated it). That the judge "shouldn't be concerned about fairness". Oh and the notary? Was fired as well.

Their defense was, that since we got the money from them, we are liable for the contract. (We weren't even aware what the money was for, and all the conversations (that they taped without my knowledge don't even show me talking about why were getting the money). Oh and they never talked to my Mom, whose account they were putting the money in. As for the notary forging things? Their defense was that the head lawyer was in Switzerland, and it slipped through the cracks.

Seriously, I have to restrain myself in language when I think about the guys reasons for why the contract should be upheld. Both my Mother and I were ready to testify, but the judge didn't think it was necessary. He should come back with a ruling in 4 days.

So what do you guys think?

 

[Drathnoxis]

I think you should post all this in Off-Topic if you actually want responses, since not many people look at the Advice Forum. I only check in every couple months when I'm extra bored. I had a thread here at one time telling people not to post threads on this subforum, but when the old, new management came in they deleted it and gave me a warning for bumping it. Some thanks for trying to help people find the advice they are looking for -_-

On the case, I have no idea what's going on. I don't have enough of an understanding of the (American?) housing and legal systems to parse what they are thinking or trying to do.

 

[mavkiel]

Yeah, if I realized how dead this forum was I would have posted in the other forum. Probably second to last update: The judged said we get half of the amount. The judge believed my dad signed at least one of the documents the opposing side gave. (Obviously not the one that was notarized a month after he died). However, the judge didn't believe my mom signed anything.

The lawyers, to be even more assholes are appealing. I am probably going to report them to the bar, because the guys defense to the forged documents was that he was in another country and not overseeing his office. (no matter how you slice it, it sounds skeevy, either the guy hires crooks, or he is a crook as well)

 

[Satinavian]

And again i am negatively surprised by the American law system.

Here such kind of forgery is a crime that the state would get involved and pursue it. And considering it is about a lot of money and done by professionals that would be prison. Even people just trying to use such a forgery knowingly to get money would likely end up in prison.

But in America it remains just a civil case ?

 

[mavkiel]

Yeah just a civil case, still waiting on that appeal. Yeah the only person who seems to have paid any sort of price for this is the notary, who was only fired. Also, I have to be worried about even reporting them to the bar, because the lawyer is a freaking millionaire. He can afford to make my life hell, and he is old enough to not care about getting disbarred.

Honestly, I'd have laughed if the guy had a stroke and died in the courtroom. If that seems harsh, I directly blame that guy for my Dad's suicide. Getting ripped off for that large sum of money put him in a financially bad situation.

*sighs* Still waiting on the judge to deal with the appeal, and now I have to deal with my Grandfathers death, and his lack of a will. I feel like I am one event away from a country music song.

 

[mavkiel]

Well we won the case, then they appealed it. The appeal was denied. Then they appealed yet again. Now I am considering going to all out war with the lawyer. Sue him for lawyer fees, sue him for pain and suffering and every thing else I can do. Oh and I plan on going after the f'ers law license as well. (Has to raise eyebrows that the guy submits forged documents to the court.)

 

[Drathnoxis]

Well we won the case, then they appealed it. The appeal was denied. Then they appealed yet again. Now I am considering going to all out war with the lawyer. Sue him for lawyer fees, sue him for pain and suffering and every thing else I can do. Oh and I plan on going after the f'ers law license as well. (Has to raise eyebrows that the guy submits forged documents to the court.)

Good, I'm happy to see that you got a good outcome from the courts.