(As we all know) Women are not new to gaming.

[Tippy]

Yes sexual harassment will happen and when it does happen it should called out and ridiculed .
To use your example of gun crime , yes gun crime does happen , and do you know what happens to people who commit gun crimes? They go to fucking prison .
If your argument is ? It?s going to happen anyway so why are you making a big deal out it??. then im afraid im going to have to reuse that image

If not then explain you position

Yes, they go to prison.

Do you what happens when one person harasses (sexually, racially, whatever) on the internet or over voice chat? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Again, welcome to the real world.

Criminals go to prison because they an absolute minority, causing havoc on the majority of the of society (and the law) who are all against crime.
Majority wins.

YOU, on the other hand, are an absolute minority fighting an invisible battle against a completely anonymous majority who doesn't respect you. See the difference?
Who will you single out? Who will you ridicule, who will you punish? Most importantly, who is backing you up, where is your support? When someone yells at you "go make me a sandwich", what's going to happen to him?
Do you want his fellow male gamers to suddenly turn on him, ridicule him and effectively become your white knights? As much as female gamers seem to hate the concept of white knights, you certainly seem to be asking for it.

Because your fellow female gamers certainly aren't there for you, nowhere near in the numbers they claim to have - they're too busy avoiding the topic, avoiding the community and hiding themselves. They're too busy letting 0.1% of female gamers desperately try to speak for the remaining 41.9%.
Majority wins.

Also at this point I can see you're just trying to provoke a stronger reaction by using meme images, and this is called "trolling".

Goodbye.

 

[Vault101]

I get what you're saying, but in my opinion most women who play video games are not attractive to me.

unattractive because (generally speaking) they arent the kind to spend all that money/effort on their apearance? or unattractive because theres somthing so off-putting about a girl picking up a controller/keyboard?

[quote/]I get that there are guys out there (we call them "Captains") that will happily be a utility for a woman's company or companionship. Guys like that are more common than I originally thought since I had never encountered Captains until I expanded my peer group. In my original group they were sort of a myth, turns out they're real.[quote/]
whats up with the pic? he's just doing somthing for a girl...because shes attractive that automatically makes him "her *****" and desperate for attention/aproval?

[quote/]To me there is nothing scarier than a Captain. You never know what he'll do just for conversation.[/quote]

I thought you were supposed to be a "man"

 

[Zoe Castillo]

--

 

[lunavixen]

Hey Beat writer...

What do you remember about Final Fantasy? Do you remember Locke, the Phoenix Esper, the scene with his girlfriend, and also how they integrated plot lines by making things like learning life 3 a condition precedent to obtaining the gem box? Do you remember when you're celes and you have to feed your grandpa fish, so that he doesn't die, and the who;le subgame is catching fish? And do you remember antying about VII? DO you agree that VI and VII were the best Final Fantasies? What do you think about Sepiroth? Aeris? Did Sepiroth hold a candle to Kefka? Was the surrealism that was built into VII--any comment on it? Like how cloud split his identity into a bunch of identities and found out that he was a copy of a bunch of other genetic clones or something...which plot lines stand out the most? And did you ever get a golden chocobo and knights of the round? Which airships are the best? And other questions.

I loved the Red XIII music. Was that the wolf's name, Red XII?

Have you ever played the secret of evermore? Did you ever read the secret messages in squaresoft games that said things like "the world is square"?

I am interested in the plot of Mass Effect because I am a L'etoile fan. What was it? What did you like about Mass Effect? Which is better, ME1 or ME2?

To answer your questions in order:

I didn't play FF6 until a few years ago as it's extremely hard to find here, my brother has it, not me (yet)and so I haven't played it all the way through, so I don't remember a lot about the plot.

As for the FFVII questions, Sephiroth is a great villain. It's a shame Aerith had to die. I don't know. Cloud duidn't voluntarily split his identity, he suffered severe Mako poisioning as a result of Hojos experiments in Crisis Core, and it melded his memories with the memories he had of Zack, he could no longer differentiate them from his own, and as such adapted that identity, he was not a genetic clone at all, merely injected with Jenova cells. I liked the plots of all the main FF games except 12. Yes on both counts. My favourite ships are the Ragnarok and the Hilda Garde 3.

Red XIII is just what Hojo named him, his actual name was Nanaki.

Never played it.

I have no idea what L'etoile is. I like how Mass Effect is story driven, you don't see that a lot in video games anymore. It'd be difficult for me to say which is a better game, ME1 has the aspect of being the first in the series, where ME2 can expand the story, I was so glad the Mako was gone (that thing handled worse than my second car), but was sad to see that you couldn't just explore sections of random planets as much. I like Mass Effect as a whole, not just the parts.

 

[RafaelNegrus]

Yes sexual harassment will happen and when it does happen it should called out and ridiculed .
To use your example of gun crime , yes gun crime does happen , and do you know what happens to people who commit gun crimes? They go to fucking prison .
If your argument is ? It?s going to happen anyway so why are you making a big deal out it??. then im afraid im going to have to reuse that image

If not then explain you position

Yes, they go to prison.

Do you what happens when one person harasses (sexually, racially, whatever) on the internet or over voice chat? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Again, welcome to the real world.

Criminals go to prison because they an absolute minority, causing havoc on the majority of the of society (and the law) who are all against crime.
Majority wins.

YOU, on the other hand, are an absolute minority fighting an invisible battle against a completely anonymous majority who doesn't respect you. See the difference?
Who will you single out? Who will you ridicule, who will you punish? Most importantly, who is backing you up, where is your support? When someone yells at you "go make me a sandwich", what's going to happen to him?
Do you want his fellow male gamers to suddenly turn on him, ridicule him and effectively become your white knights? As much as female gamers hate the concept of white knights, you certainly seem to be asking for it.

Because your fellow female gamers certainly aren't there for you, nowhere near in the numbers they claim to have - they're too busy avoiding the topic, avoiding the community and hiding themselves. They're too busy letting 0.1% of female gamers desperately try to speak for the remaining 41.9%.
Majority wins.

Also at this point I can see you're just trying to provoke a stronger reaction by using meme images, and this is called "trolling".

Goodbye.

We weren?t talking about the internet we were talking about the cross assault case so don?t try to change the subject .
Anyway you not really leaving any room for a discussion here since your argument is completely without evidence and is based on imaginary facts . You keep claiming you are the majority yet give no evince to support your claim , you also seem to think being part of a majority makes you right ????. It desnt.
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/poisoning-the-well.html

but no way am i letting you have the last word on this , so here read this .

Spoiler: Sexual harassment is not without consequence

sexual harassment is not without consequence

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/s3_sexual_assault/
http://www.unc.edu/courses/2010spring/law/357c/001/internetharassment/internet-harassment.html
http://www.westerncape.gov.za/eng/pubs/guides/S/63925/5
http://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/statistics/enforcement/sexual_harassment.cfm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_harassment

As for ?Who will you single out?? well for now it?s him

Spoiler

His fuck deserved everything he got and more .


but whatever anyone who ends his argument with ?Majority wins. Goodbye? is clearly grasping at straws =)

EDIT:I like how you are trying to run away from a discussion by crying ?troll ?

He's not arguing what's right or wrong, he's arguing what works versus what doesn't. Basically that as long as the vast majority of girl gamers are okay with leaving their representatives hanging when they get harassed then there is nothing to stop the harassment. I pretty much agree with him. Do you think there would have been a push for racial equality without the Civil Rights movement, largely made up of blacks? Probably not. Is that the way it would be in a completely moral world? No, but we aren't operating in that world.

I think one thing that's going to have to happen to make any motions on this is we need to move past the moral argument. Harassment is wrong, it shouldn't happen, we all know that, but it still does. So what are we going to do about it? That's the discussion that needs to happen.

 

[Zoe Castillo]

--

 

[someonehairy-ish]

One of my female friends can kick my ass in Halo and COD. And I'm not shabby at all at either of them. And several of the top players in my old WoW guild were girls too. And my sister isn't bad at most of my PS3 games. And my ex loved the hell out of God Of War and Prince Of Persia.
Come to think of it, I probably know more female gamers who are actually any good than I do male ones.

Just because men are making games doesn't mean they have to pander to sex obsessed 17 year old boys 24/7

I think most guys actually seem to get over it by the time they're seventeen. You're obsessed for a while; sex is the most important thing in the universe and the entire purpose of your existence, and then you actually get some and think 'well that was fun but not exactly transcendental, I'll get on with my life now.'
Also, you're wrong. Everything is still better with moar gratuitous boobs!!1 Herp

 

[TerribleAssassin]

I've never doubted the women hardcore gamer thing, in fact, that makes the women who do game properly more endearing, not as relationship options, but as people.

[small]And it's one of the reasons why Lights is so damn perfect[/small]
[small][small]I mean come on Lights, marry me?[/small][/small]

 

[RafaelNegrus]

That maybe what he meant but not what he said .
He thinks that most male gamers are misogynistic assholes and that complaining about this stuff is pointless because nice people have somehow become a minority

I hold onto my point that if females want to see better and "equal" representation in gaming, they need to drive themselves forward in large numbers, they need to prove to the community that they exist and can stand on their own.

There, his main point. I very much agree with that. I would also agree that depending on your definition "nice" people are indeed in the minority, if you define nice as going out of your way to empower someone else especially. Men do not have to do anything to continue the status quo, they just have to keep buying and playing games and not raise a fuss like most of us certainly will. They don't have to be misogynists to do that.

He also seems to think that women as a group don't deserve to be defended because he doesn't see enough of them walking around in "im a girl and im proud " t-shirts.

If you look historically, when it comes to issues of civil rights and equality these are taken by the minority and not just given by the majority. Generally, the minority has to raise such a massive stink over it that the majority grants the rights and privileges just to restore peace. If there are only a few women willing to even say they play games, then why should the industry turn itself upside down trying to please them?

He is marginalizing the work people are doing to try and fix the harassment problem by saying those people don't really matter while complaining that not enough work is being done to fix the problem.

Criticism only gets a cause so far. It is a necessary step, but it can really only be successful insofar as it inspires motivation to go out and actually fix the problem. To be fair, if EVERY female gamer put up youtube videos about how she's a gamer and not going to stand for it anymore that would be rather significant. But for a relatively small group of people, couple hundred or so to do the same, it gets lost in the bowels of the internet.

But if it inspires the a generation of female game designers, that is significant. If it brings girl gamers everywhere out of the woodwork that is significant. It hasn't done that yet, so obviously a little something more is needed.

 

[Mouse One]

If there are only a few women willing to even say they play games, then why should the industry turn itself upside down trying to please them?

Market share. A lot of women do play games, but a lot are turned off or just not interested in the themes of mainstream videogames. Games that have more universal appeal are huge (I should know, I lost my wife for a few weeks to Civilization). The point being, the industry shouldn't throw up unnecessary "no gurlz allowed" signs, if for no other reason than it's financially stupid.

 

[JeffBergGold]

Trash talking is part of the game bro! Whenever anything is being played competitively getting a psychological edge on the opponent is a strategy that everyone uses. If the guy got a psychological edge by making kitchen jokes that's simply part of being in a competitive environment. Step onto a basketball court,a soccer field, or a football field and I guarantee you will here nonstop trash talk until the end of the competition.

Please pull your head out of you ass, "brah", people aren't talking about "trash talk", they are talking about actual harassment and abuse.

They may not be talking about trash talking. That is what I'm talking about though.

unattractive because (generally speaking) they arent the kind to spend all that money/effort on their apearance? or unattractive because theres somthing so off-putting about a girl picking up a controller/keyboard?

Yes, because generally they are not appearance conscious. The ones who are it really doesn't make a difference in terms of their attractiveness. I've seen some women who play video games who are attractive but this is extremely rare and a statistical anomaly almost not even worth acknowledging.

Also, the girl gamers I've encountered have always been pseudo-intellectuals, with weird sense of humor, socially awkward, and have a variety of other traits I just don't particularly like.

Sure, there could be one out there that is not weird, socially savvy, physically active, and attractive but that would be an extremely rare person.

Knowing the internet I'm sure there are a few on this very forum!

whats up with the pic? he's just doing somthing for a girl...because shes attractive that automatically makes him "her *****" and desperate for attention/aproval?

Not in all situations like this, but in this particular scenario that is definitely the case. As it is in most situations mirroring these.

I thought you were supposed to be a "man"

All men dislike "Captains" "White Knights" "King Arthurs" whatever they call them in your neighborhood. For very obvious reasons, If you don't dislike Captains there is a strong chance that you are indeed a Captain.

 

[DementedSheep]

I going to be honest here...I am fairly sure the 42% thing is bullshit or at least not made up of the same ratio of hardcore gamer as with men (I?m mean hardcore as in how much gaming is done and how invested a person is rather than the type of game) . But even its not 42% and it?s more like 20% we are still not uncommon and its doesn?t excuse being treated like trash or being accused of being a fake all the time nor does it excuse genuinely sexist crap in games (not talking about a bit of T & A and this doesn?t happen often).

It is ok for male pandering games to exist as well, not everything has to be gender neutral and the vast majority of games are. I don?t care that games like lollipop chainsaw, Dead or Alive or Duke Nukem exist. I don?t mind it most the time but it?s a bit more annoying in Witcher because I actually like that game and if asked or discussing it I will mention the things I don?t like or how I think it can be improved (there are actually a lot of female Witcher fans despite the tits, go figure). This is not demanding, that?s just discussing a game which you would think is what a gaming form is for. Likewise it perfectly fine to discus trends you don?t like in gaming, that you would like more female protagonist (hell I would just like more non white, straight, male with dark haired with a bit of stubble protagonists) , that you would like to actually have a female option when playing a online game. That I think is what most people are doing. Making demands (as in they HAVE to do X) and harassing a devs is not cool. This doesn?t only happen with issue involving women in gaming, this happens with everything. I think a lot of gamers need to learn how to make requests without being an ass about it.

It?s not just women wanting these things either. A lot of guys want better female characters and don?t like the pandering crap. The average age of gamers has gone up and I think a lot of guys don?t appreciate being treated like horny 16 year olds. The idea that these guys are ?white knighting? is stupid. So they are only saying these things to impress girls they will never meet rather than just not being an asshole? Just because your male doesn?t mean you want to T & A all the time (hell I don?t want to see shirtless men all the time either), it?s doesn?t mean you can?t appreciate a female character beyond how much you want fuck them and are incapable of seeing woman beyond a few stereotypes.

Annnnd I don?t think female portrayal in games is actually that bad at the moment. Maybe it?s the sort of games I play but I don?t see many issues. At least not that are issues on their own without bringing trends into it.

 

[RafaelNegrus]

If there are only a few women willing to even say they play games, then why should the industry turn itself upside down trying to please them?

Market share. A lot of women do play games, but a lot are turned off or just not interested in the themes of mainstream videogames. Games that have more universal appeal are huge (I should know, I lost my wife for a few weeks to Civilization). The point being, the industry shouldn't throw up unnecessary "no gurlz allowed" signs, if for no other reason than it's financially stupid.

This made me curious so I looked it up, top ten bestselling games of 2011

1. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 (360, PS3, Wii, PC)
2. Just Dance 3 (Wii, 360, PS3)
3. Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim (360, PS3, PC)
4. Battlefield 3 (360, PS3, PC)
5. Madden NFL 12 (360, PS3, Wii, PSP, PS2)
6. Call of Duty: Black Ops (360, PS3, Wii, NDS, PC)
7. Batman: Arkham City (360, PS3, PC)
8. Gears of War 3 (360)
9. Just Dance 2 (Wii)
10. Assassin's Creed: Revelations (360, PS3, PC)

That's US. UK was very similar, and Japan had a bunch of very different stuff, here's the link: http://www.gamesradar.com/top-10-best-selling-games-2011-worldwide-includes-tons-warfare-and-dancing/

But disregarding Japan, most of these are indeed what I would describe as macho mainstream things, especially the 2 COD games, GoW, Madden, Battlefield 3, and would possibly say AC:R and Batman are more aimed at males also, possibly Skyrim too. The market is saying to make more games like these, not more Civ games. Although I will say that this list is just the best selling games, not necessarily most profitable (I personally think the future of the industry lies in more small games on medium sized budgets that don't have to pull the slot machine of universal appeal attempts.)

You know, I read something awhile back when I was still studying psychology, about how toy companies kept trying to find a toy that both boys and girls would like because they would double their audience and sales very easily. They never really could though, definitely not with any regularity. But that's just a musing, not an actual point.

 

[Easton Dark]

All men dislike "Captains" "White Knights" "King Arthurs" whatever they call them in your neighborhood. For very obvious reasons, If you don't dislike Captains there is a strong chance that you are indeed a Captain.

While that is a generalization about 'all men', I have to agree that those guys (just white knights, thanks. The others sound stupid) are annoying. This is one of the few things you and I agree on. *confetti*

 

[Madfoxinaator]

I don't really have anything to say about this topic. The statistics say they exist, the logic says they exist, and the girl gamers themselves say they exist. What's left to discuss? WHAT?

On an unrelated note I got my little sister into gaming recently and am trying to find easy, but great games for her to play. I've been playing so long that I routinely underestimate her difficulty with some games. Any suggestions?

EDIT: She's already beaten OoT and Luigi's mansion with help from me, but she's really struggling with Super Mario Sunshine (the platform levels). I hesitate to give too much help lest she never gets any better.

Just to put an educational perspective on this. There is no such thing as helping her too much. Just by seeing what the character needs to do she will learn how to play. Also if she is younger her hand dexterity has not fully matured and so she will naturally get better, helping out with the difficult parts will allow her to play the easier parts while gaining the skill and dexterity. It also makes her happier probably and allows some good bonding. Just my 2 cents though.

 

[Madfoxinaator]

If there are only a few women willing to even say they play games, then why should the industry turn itself upside down trying to please them?

Market share. A lot of women do play games, but a lot are turned off or just not interested in the themes of mainstream videogames. Games that have more universal appeal are huge (I should know, I lost my wife for a few weeks to Civilization). The point being, the industry shouldn't throw up unnecessary "no gurlz allowed" signs, if for no other reason than it's financially stupid.

This made me curious so I looked it up, top ten bestselling games of 2011

1. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 (360, PS3, Wii, PC)
2. Just Dance 3 (Wii, 360, PS3)
3. Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim (360, PS3, PC)
4. Battlefield 3 (360, PS3, PC)
5. Madden NFL 12 (360, PS3, Wii, PSP, PS2)
6. Call of Duty: Black Ops (360, PS3, Wii, NDS, PC)
7. Batman: Arkham City (360, PS3, PC)
8. Gears of War 3 (360)
9. Just Dance 2 (Wii)
10. Assassin's Creed: Revelations (360, PS3, PC)

That's US. UK was very similar, and Japan had a bunch of very different stuff, here's the link: http://www.gamesradar.com/top-10-best-selling-games-2011-worldwide-includes-tons-warfare-and-dancing/

But disregarding Japan, most of these are indeed what I would describe as macho mainstream things, especially the 2 COD games, GoW, Madden, Battlefield 3, and would possibly say AC:R and Batman are more aimed at males also, possibly Skyrim too. The market is saying to make more games like these, not more Civ games. Although I will say that this list is just the best selling games, not necessarily most profitable (I personally think the future of the industry lies in more small games on medium sized budgets that don't have to pull the slot machine of universal appeal attempts.)

You know, I read something awhile back when I was still studying psychology, about how toy companies kept trying to find a toy that both boys and girls would like because they would double their audience and sales very easily. They never really could though, definitely not with any regularity. But that's just a musing, not an actual point.

I've never read that study but it makes a lot of sense. As a kid, I was mainly friends with boys and would have hated playing with girls. If girls played neutral lawyer man, I wouldn't have touched that. I also think that games sell best when there is excitement and/or competition. Civ games are great but they pay off in the long term and most guys and girls probably don't want to put in the effort. Also multiplayer civ is a huge time commitment from 2 parties, So yeah. I don't think those games will grow.

 

[Euryalus]

I don't really have anything to say about this topic. The statistics say they exist, the logic says they exist, and the girl gamers themselves say they exist. What's left to discuss? WHAT?

On an unrelated note I got my little sister into gaming recently and am trying to find easy, but great games for her to play. I've been playing so long that I routinely underestimate her difficulty with some games. Any suggestions?

EDIT: She's already beaten OoT and Luigi's mansion with help from me, but she's really struggling with Super Mario Sunshine (the platform levels). I hesitate to give too much help lest she never gets any better.

Just to put an educational perspective on this. There is no such thing as helping her too much. Just by seeing what the character needs to do she will learn how to play. Also if she is younger her hand dexterity has not fully matured and so she will naturally get better, helping out with the difficult parts will allow her to play the easier parts while gaining the skill and dexterity. It also makes her happier probably and allows some good bonding. Just my 2 cents though.

She's actually not all that young (13). I just refer to her that way because she's alot younger than me .
She never really showed any interest in Gaming until now (a friend showed her a level in OoT, so she asked me if she could try it), so I didn't really ever bother with it. It's not that I'm afraid to help her it's that I'm afraid she'll just run to me anytime a level/game gets too hard. Plus anytime she has trouble doing something and then she sees me do it "with ease" she gets discouraged and thinks she'll never be any good. It makes me laugh because She beat Ocarina of Time in like 2-3 months (this was her first game) and it took me like 2-3 years (Granted I could barely read when it first came out, but still).

 

[ms_sunlight]

Hey Beat writer...

What do you remember about Final Fantasy?

*snip*

I've had this conversation more than a few times. You know, where you say you like games to someone, and they ask you what games and then they ask you all sorts of minutae questions about those games, and it's not because they're interested in your answers so much as they're trying to catch you out and prove you a fraud.

"They" in this case being a man, and me being a woman.

What gets me is they seem to think it's some kind of righteous thing, trying to catch out "fake girl gamers", rather than an incredibly rude thing to do to anyone.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

***All men*** dislike "Captains" "White Knights" "King Arthurs" whatever they call them in your neighborhood. For very obvious reasons, If you don't dislike Captains there is a strong chance that you are indeed a Captain.

Sorry man, but I'm not part of this little clique you imagined. First off, I don't think you have a clue of what constitutes being a man other then the dick and balls that tends to be mandatory. Secondly, I'm calling you out on having no clue about what you are talking about:

White Knight is a blanket term used by people with shaky or flimsy reasoning, in an attempt to discredit another without actually formulating an argument of your own. In a sense, you read this somewhere (likely here or somewhere else where a lot people with no clue talk shit ad nauseam) and found it to be a useful tool to sway 12 year olds who talk big.

I'd be surprised if that term ever ended a debate or swayed an argument in your favour, since it carries nothing on its own. I mean, it really means nothing... its just name calling, like calling another kid in a playground stupid or slow. The kid might not be stupid or slow, but by golly it sure feels good to call people you don't like names.

Especially here... you have nothing but a wild guess to base such an accusation on. You have no idea if the person only helps women to get to their knickers, or whether they are just NOT an asshole. You really can't tell. Yet you don't like them, so the name is being called... cause it makes you feel better and, to you, makes your argument appear to have some merit. But it doesn't. Anyone who isn't an impressionable child can see through that ruse. Its a bullshit weightless term that is equivocal to playground verbal jousting. It betrays a low intellect or someone with little experience or is just plain bigoted/ignorant.

Also, "Captains"? Really? Is that the hip and cool word kids use today? It sounds like another siren for insecurities then it is a proper descriptor of an actual stereotype (Note: Stereotypes are pretty damn awful things to use when you are trying to make a point).

I'm pretty sure you feel big when you throw around those buzz words like they mean jack, but I'm afraid the image your projecting is something far less imposing... if not down right wimpy.

I get what you're saying, but in my opinion most women who play video games are not attractive to me.

unattractive because (generally speaking) they arent the kind to spend all that money/effort on their apearance? or unattractive because theres somthing so off-putting about a girl picking up a controller/keyboard?

[quote/]I get that there are guys out there (we call them "Captains") that will happily be a utility for a woman's company or companionship. Guys like that are more common than I originally thought since I had never encountered Captains until I expanded my peer group. In my original group they were sort of a myth, turns out they're real.[quote/]
whats up with the pic? he's just doing somthing for a girl...because shes attractive that automatically makes him "her *****" and desperate for attention/aproval?

[quote/]To me there is nothing scarier than a Captain. You never know what he'll do just for conversation.

I thought you were supposed to be a "man"[/quote]

I already told some "alpha" off earlier on this topic (EDIT: Actually it was that other topic with the retarded "from the kitchen to the gamepad" video) about how fucking moronic and counter productive the use of such terms are, I probably said it more succinctly too. It's literally more telling of them then then it does others. It SCREAMS insecurities.