Overusedname said:
You've been in an endless loop for like...3 pages bro.
"I've never met female gamers which means they barely exist and the dozens of statistics are lying, it's hopeless anyway, they're anonymous so why bother calling it out, I have no problem with whats happening cause I'm a guy, so it's all up to women."
To be perfectly blunt: I don't think you've been exposed to discrimination. On any personal level whatsoever. Now, that's a good thing, it's nice that less people are exposed to it. Now I'm a white, straight male, but I've seen my friends get shit for being born wrong all the time.
And THAT'S how it affects me. That pisses me off, and I can't believe it doesn't piss you off.
If I got pissed off everytime something discriminatory happened in the world, I would probably die on the spot from permanently-pissed-off-syndrome
But you are, in fact, speaking as a male gamer who thinks they understand precisely everything about what's it's like to be a grown women who can't go into a server without being accused of ulterior motives. This is why discrimination is annoying: It adds profound discomfort to even the tiniest little event. Gay people can't just go into a cake shop and be guaranteed they can buy a wedding cake without getting thrown out or harassed. Black people are still likely to be singled out based solely on race by law enforcement. And women to this day are generalized and have dozens of pseudo scientists with no degrees in what they claim to be studying saying things like 'women have less personality diversity by far' and 'are genetically programmed to overreact emotionally.' None of these statements have ever been confirmed by actual trained, credible psychologists.
And yet this discrimination exists. And yet gays and blacks are out there, showing their faces, proud to be who they are, moving in huge groups and showing the word their strength and existence, leading huge marches, physically making a move because they were the minority against a majority.
Guess what female gamers have done so far? Made a website or two. Made a couple of videos. Yelled at some developers for making a sexist game, tried to feed them to the media. Thrown a female or two into an event populated almost entirely by males, with no other females to support them.
They have done exactly what nobody cares about, they have done exactly the opposite of making a huge physical, noticeable move, they are still hiding. Men have been doing it for years. I could show you endless evidence of large numbers of male gamers enjoying gaming together, but I can find little or no evidence of females doing the same thing.
Men control culture because they always have. That's how it's always been. It's not because we earned it, it's because we can't shake our prehistoric notions of patriarchy. Several studies from the last hundred years confirm it time and time again. Men hire men based on credibility for the work, men hire women based on appearance.
That is not a good thing for women, and idiots who happen to be attractive happen to keep representing women in the work place, thus women are generalized and labeled as less competent, and the cycle somehow 'justifies' itself in the subconscious mind. Unless you know anything about why women REALLY don't have as many job or college opportunities, I suggest you stop speaking as if you do. It's a large part of the reason no one but self-described alpha's have agreed with you on this thread thus far.
But that still doesn't answer WHY men controlled culture and continue to do so in many aspects of life (or regions of the world).
You're right, we didn't earn it. But we proved we could do it. We showed it. Do you understand that? Probably not, so let me spell it out:
If women were 100% equal to men,
the world would have almost never seen any period of male dominance.
In the last 5000+ years, women would've fought back and proved they were
equally as inventive,
equally as productive,
equally as strong (body and mind),
equally as capable, etc etc etc. Women would've always had an equal say in society, always been able to vote, always had equal privileges. But that did NOT happen. Men stayed in power, and continue to stay in power in many aspects of life. WHY? Please, do answer (and a decent answer, not "because men are jerks").
Eventually you will have to say it, I'm not going to say it. You started this, you brought it up, so now answer it. Also, keep in mind that this is a dangerous and somewhat irrelevant topic to bring up in terms of video gaming. I don't condone it.
Gender determines next to nothing of someone's actual identity. I can tell you I've met quite a few people who act nothing like their gender, or see themselves as utterly genderless, or don't let the stereotypes define them at all. And no, they aren't transgender. A lot of marketing, cultural and psychological research suggests that gender identity is something society teaches us. That's the point: There isn't a difference. That's why it's stupid that only women should help women. They are not an invisible ghost that exists in an alternate reality that doesn't effect us in anyway whatsoever. They. Are. Us. Drop the segregation, or at least tone it down. You claim to see the benefit of female perspective in the industry, but fail to see that if men don't change their behavior, it will NEVER happen. Because men currently control this industry, which is how 'old-boys' clubs work.
I admit it's both a combination of men's behavior and women's reluctance to drive themselves forward. I put more pressure on the latter because it's a more realistic approach, it's more likely to happen
if women truly make up a whopping 42% of gamers. You tell me why it hasn't happened yet, you tell me why it didn't happen 10 years ago if this thread truly implies that "women are not new to gaming, 42%, etc".
Here's the cycle of a million industries: Men start an industry because they make more money and are more likely to be accepted at colleges regardless of how many women were just as qualified, then the men proceed to hire more men with the same credentials for the same reasons, the cycle continues and then men blame women for not trying.
You know that bolded part? That's utterly wrong. You're basically saying "Thomas Edison invented the light bulb because he made more money". What garbage, he invented the light bulb SO WE COULD HAVE LIGHT BULBS. Men invented and popularized gaming SO WE COULD HAVE GAMING. Are you seriously convinced that all inventions and innovations are brought in because their inventors get PAID better? Since when did salaries translate to ideas, concepts and innovation?
Are you saying Bill Gates invented Windows because women weren't getting paid enough to come up with the IDEA of Windows? What nonsense.
Today's developed countries see an equal amount of opportunity given to males and females in most universities. You make it sound as if women are basically kicked out of Oxford and told "sorry, we want men. Next!".
They do. And they're actively discouraged on both small and grand scales. From the sexist in every server to the I.T. professor who won't accept A or B student for not being pretty or charming enough, to the simple fact that society encourages men to be the ones in tech and math because it's 'normal'.
It's "normal" because men have
shown more of an interest in tech/ math than women. Men have
shown more of an interest in gaming than women. Nobody is stopping women from crossing the border, some women already have. But more women aren't following suit, and if they are it's at a very slow pace OR they keep hiding.
And with all due respect you repeatedly deny facts confirmed by several surveys including one by the ECA, the most trusted and influential Electronic technology news and media association in America. And they update the survey once every one or two years and the female percentage is at 47% at the moment. They have, again, confirmed that while this statistic includes 'casual games', most of those women play mainstream games. The ones you and I do. And MEN PLAY CASUAL GAMES TOO. That factors into our percentage as well.
And here's the thing about ECA: It's an army of hundreds of people whose career is to track demographics and news in electronic entertainment. And with all due respect, you're a guy on a forum who happens plays games. Why are you trying to make yourself out to be the more credible one?
I'm not. I'm just 1 guy asking for some visual proof I can see/feel, is it too much to ask if the statistics are true? So far nobody, and I mean nobody in this thread has brought up anything other than the same ECA stastistic. 42% this, 42% that. And then I bombard them with videos/photos/experiences, I even WELCOME them to find whatever they can and show me some visible proof. And then they either quiet down, or try to dodge the question (like you just did), saying "umm..err...that's irrelevant" or "because men are sexist jerks" or "but ECA said it's 42%, it's official!"
I'm bored of this statistic that nobody can back up, nobody can see, nobody can feel, nobody can experience. It leaves nothing for discussion and all I can say is "alright fine, 42% it is, whatever" and walk away shaking my head.
Obviously women need to pull their weight: and many are! And most would be fully willing to if there were more guys who go out of their way to smack some sense into every sexist they come across.
No. If you were walking in the mall and you saw a man saying "dammit woman, stop being an idiot" to a woman (you don't know either of them), are you going to barge in and yell "hey that's sexist! She has a name, don't call her "woman"!. Going to smack some sense into that sexist now, are we? Why should guys go
out of their way to shield women from sexist mocks? Can't they hold their own? And when we do shield them, why do they get offended saying "I don't need defending, hero, buzz off".
If you hear a random woman say "bah, I swear all men are stupid" to her friend, do you expect another nearby woman come up to her, call her a sexist and smack some sense into her? What the hell?
The majority needs to go out of their way to accept the minority. That's how progress in civil rights and equality has worked since the dawn of time. Again, Black people could have complained for years, they could've protested as hard as they could, but if there was never a white person to stand along side them, the progress never would have happened. Without violence anyway.
But black people made a MOVE en-masse. They were seen EVERYWHERE. They got themselves NOTICED. They got their PRESENCE FELT. They showed what they were CAPABLE OF.
Female gamers so far have done none of that. They refuse to be seen anywhere. They hide their numbers. They don't their presence felt in society, letting a tiny group of females do all the talking for them. They refuse to enter game development,
their interests lie elsewhere.
I said this before, I can't help defend someone who barely even exists. Female gamers can't be defended if such a tiny amount of them are representing them. They can't be defended if they are almost never heard on voice chat, or seen in gaming events. Their "preference" doesn't matter, like I said, ratios and percentages. 42% is a fucking huge percentage, they shoud be seen everywhere for goodness sake.
By the way, welcome to BlizzCon: