Ask a detective/undercover cop

[BlindChance]

It's a horrible thing to ask yet one more TV show question, but have you seen The Wire? If so, what do you think of it? Since it's earned its acclaim by being allegedly incredibly accurate, I'd love to know your thoughts.

Here's another one, though: How hard is it to deal with citizens whose crimes you know are highly likely to go unsolved? I have to imagine most burglaries do.

 

[effilctar]

OK, so I'm planning on doing a chemistry degree but recently have found a certain passion for detective work, particularly on the forensic side of crime investigation. The uni's I am most interested in do have optional modules concerning forensic chemistry. So how easy do you think it would be to get into the forensic investigation career with an MChem?

EDIT: 2nd question. There are often many stories here in England about burglars who have pressed charges against people for being injured on their property. So I was wondering whether you knew to what extent I can "protect myself" against someone who trespasses on my property with malicious intentions.

 

[maninahat]

Have you ever had to work against any large crime syndicates? What is the largest gang/mafia/criminal organisation you have ever had to take down?

Also, that image of the chick you posted a few posts back...are people actually permitted to dress like that on the job?

 

[ace_of_something]

Interesting thread. Inspires me to start my own: "ask an accountant" thread. oh the controversy.
Anyhoo, what would job would you do if you had to choose something outside of the whole law enforcement area?

When I started college I actually began in pursuit of a teaching degree (high school social studies/history/humanities).

When you worked undercover, did someone actually ask if you were a cop, thinking you'd be forced to say the truth if you were?

i didnt bother to check if this has been asked all ready, but if some asks you are u an undercover cop three times do u really have to tell them?

No, not at all. That's a complete myth. But it works in our favor for people to think that so we let hollywood go ahead and use it. I have actually had a few people ask me that while undercover. Usually the only people that do are crackheads or prostitutes. Most dealers have been arrested enough times to know that isn't true.

Hi, long time lurker, first time poster.
EDIT: Answered first question already.
Second, what part of your job would you eliminate if you could? (i.e. what part of being the fuzz grinds your gears the most?)

Welcome to the escapist!
Hrm... I wish more than anything i could just make the 'us vs. them' mentality that some people (and some police have) go away. If people realized the cops were trying to HELP them and the community not just arrest them for the lulz. It would make things a lot easier. That or having to wear a suit all the time.

 

[ace_of_something]

How many cases or investigations do you normally do in a week? Do you normally average about one a week, or more than that?

I wish it was that low. I work the evening shift so my case load is a bit lower. I can expect about 1-4 cases a day. Many like muggings are just this side of unsolvable so not much time is spent on them. We go thru the motions of wandering around the area asking if anyone knows anything. Checking to see if any places have cameras outside (Like in their parking lots) and ask if the victim knew the assailant. That's about all we can do in a many cases. Sad to say. This process usually takes about an hour followed by 30 minutes of paperwork which notates what was done and anything unusual.
Burglaries take a bit more time but are largely the same. Items taken are important in all cases because the day shift checks all the local pawn shops pretty much every day at least twice. We at night check the fuck out of craigslist and similar sites.
Robberies however, always require a great deal of time. And because they are often red balls (meaning the local news is all over it) we are allowed enough time to actually do a proper investigation.
Now, when I say I do that many cases a day that means as a 'lead detective' which means my name goes on all the paperwork and I do most of the actual work as well. When I am a 'secondary' which is mostly being another set of eyes, ears, and thoughts... I don't know could be anywhere from none to 25 a week.
Keep in mind there are 7 other detectives on my shift with about equal caseloads. The morning guys tend to have more cases but they have less 'big' cases like robberies.

 

[ace_of_something]

As a cop you are expected to act professional in your job at all times and I was just wondering have you ever made any mistakes, serious mistakes that put a great risk on yourself, or your fellow officers or citizens?

Also as a follow up question, how forgiving are your superiors towards mistakes, even the smallest ones?

Yes we are. But most higher ups know we're human and are put under a great deal of stress. Most of the mistakes I make are of the boneheaded variety. Like say, putting the cuffs on someone upside down which makes it harder to double lock them as the guy is thrashing about or not remembering where I put some paperwork and having to waste 30 minutes looking around my desk or retracing my steps to find it. Nothing I can think of off the top of my head that was too serious. Most supervisors were once line officers and low ranking detectives too and are forgiving... to a point. Though they still will 'write you up' if they have no choice. Especially when a mistake is noticeable.

Have you ever had to work against any large crime syndicates? What is the largest gang/mafia/criminal organisation you have ever had to take down?
Also, that image of the chick you posted a few posts back...are people actually permitted to dress like that on the job?

Detective Benson would be dressed inappropriately for detective work. Not for showing too much skin but because that's not, technically speaking, a suit.

I wish I could say I took down a whole organization but drug cartels are massive thousand man armies hidden from the public eye and like a hydra when we cut off one head three more grow where it was. However, I have butted heads with [a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mara_Salvatrucha]MS-13[/a]on more than a few occasions. They were, and to my knowledge still are, the largest suppliers of crack and cocaine in this region. One memorable instance where we worked with the FBI and ATF lead to 31 arrests. That was 6 years ago. I just went to the last trial for any of those guys (He was a bad mother fucker looking at 250 years of jail time just from his NON-VIOLENT OFFENSES) in august. Shows you how difficult it is to get some of these massive operations moving. They ended up getting [a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corrupt_Organizations_Act]RiCO[/a] charges thrown at them, which lets us try them all at once in some instances. (You might recognize RiCO from 'the Dark Knight')

 

[AWAR]

Describe (if you haven't already) your average day at work.

Are you of Norwegian ancestry?

 

[Daveman]

Best way to learn about British policing is to watch Hot Fuzz. It's actually a documentary.

 

[jimduckie]

gee the show csi is a tv show ,not reality ... some of it is real but most of it is pretend
i could go into detail but it has been done already , this solving the crime too quickly and only work on one or two at a time is bullshit , and most of the technology is too expensive for most police departments , and would be sent to a independent lab

and the show also gives away too much info making criminals smarter

 

[ShatteredBlack]

1) When working undercover, how far are you permitted to go to maintain your cover? That is, are you permitted you commit 'lesser' crime in order to apprehend your target(s)?

2) What is the policy for eating on-shift?

I ask because my cousin, who works uniform in the South Australian Police, is often forced to eat junky take-away food while on shift and even then, only when in the patrol car.

3) Does each shift of detectives retire to the designated police bar at the end of the day, or have we been decived by crime shows (yet again!)?

 

[Ganthrinor]

As with the ask a cop. Keep it civil and you will get as straight an answer as I can offer. Try to keep your questions in the realm of detectivery and under cover coppery.

How do police detectives feel about Private Investigators in general? Can they be a hinderance or a help to the "average" police detective?

Also, in what ways, if any, are PI's related to the police?

 

[Isalan]

Awesome thread, keep up the good work and so on.

Ok, kind of strange question. Whats your favourite police based film/movie? Oh, and if you haven't watched Hot Fuzz, go watch that before you answer

 

[ace_of_something]

Know anything about your forensics team? Im looking into a career for forensics and if your actually from a detective agency i was hoping you could give me a bit of info. Ive heard the competition for these jobs as a forensics scientist is very high and only a few are needed, demand is low. I was wondering what kinds of things you send there way, is it all analysing blood and stuff, any field work, or is it a thing where you can choose. Is it all lab work? Do they work hard with long shifts? Do you always send a lot of stuff their way frome very scene you investigate? IS there any veriety in their work?

We do not have a ?forensics team? per say. Most forensic scientists are independent companies that we send things too. This is actually more typical We are on a good sized department (The city proper has 500,000 people not counting surrounding communities) and other than a ballistics lab and fingerprint analysis we don?t have anyone on staff. Only the largest departments (los Angeles, new york, cook county, FBI) tend to have an actual team of sciency types.

The ballistics and fingerprint are senior officers who are specially trained by the FBI. They put in for the training just like you would a promotion. They then take classes.
You are absolutely right though. Even before CSI (Hey I started this gig in 2000) it was a very competitive market which not that many people are needed. Usually a forensic scientist will have just one area of study. Blood is typically sent to hospitals that have specialists (I think they?re called hematologist or geneticist?) as far as splatter patterns we are taught these things in special academy and plug it into a computer or they use little sticks to figure out trajectory.
A lot of what you see on TV is only pulled out for big cases as a last resort when good ol? fashioned detective work doesn?t work out.
Usually the only thing I send their way is fingerprints, which rarely come back with anything useful and even if they do it might be enough to find someone (if they?ve already have a criminal history) but not to be admissible in court. I also have from time to time used ballistics lab in robbery cases. Thing is though very few robbers actually FIRE their weapon.
I think I actually use the Audio Visual guys more than I use either of those. They look through surveillance tapes, track IP addresses and such? ya know tech geeks.
The easiest way to break in to the kind of stuff you see on TV is to be a [a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coroner] a Coroner[/a] because that?s who ends up doing these things. Different states/cities/counties have different ways of appointing Coroners. Ours are assigned by the county board.

 

[ace_of_something]

I suppose my two questions would have to be:

1. How often is it found that other officers are being bribed. On TV this seems to happen once an episode of any given show, and I was wondering if it really was a common problem, or if it's a rare lapse. (Given that you worked Vice Squad, which is usually portrayed as the most corrupt). If you can't tell me don't worry.

2. Exactly which part of the process is the detective involved with? As mentioned above, shows like CSI, Silent Witness in the UK, Law and Order, tend to show forensic investigators doing all of the work from being assigned the case to presenting the evidence in court. What is the actual process for a standard crime (any really), who does the time tracking down leads, who makes the arrest, who corroborates evidence, who presents, who gives evidence in court, etc. What's the process and where does the detective fit in.

I?m sure it happens. I personally haven?t seen this happen. I do know that in the 60?s and 70?s it was a much larger problem though. Ya know the people who study this sort of thing figured out though? If they pay cops really well they don?t take bribes. That?s really all there is to it. The last 25 years or so the pay of your average police officer has gone up something outrageous like 100% (inflation included) most good sized departments start at about $32,000 a year not counting overtime and (the usually good) benefits. Thanks to, ironically, unions. Bribing has gone down a crotchton. (Though I?m sure it still happens)

A detective does all the hard work, okay so I?m biased. When the crime occurs the detective reports to the scene and gathers any available physical evidence, if the situation had a lot of witnesses they can send trusted uniform officers or choose themselves to canvass the area for witnesses. When I say canvas I mean just ?ask people if they saw anything? if they say yes the detective takes them somewhere else (People don?t like being seen talking to the police) and interviews them to the best of their ability to get as much information as needed. In smaller departments the detective usually takes pictures of the scene as well. In olden days they used to have to sketch the scene. Many still do just as a good habit for keeping notes (In my dept someone takes pictures for me!)
Any evidence of a science bent is sent away to one of the many different forensics specialists. If there is something on scene the appropriate specialist is called. After this is done you usually wait on this side of motherfucking FOREVER for them to show up. The detective then seeks out a suspect based on witness statements and any evidence found. When and if a suspect is found they interrogate the suspect often times to try for a confession, to catch them in a lie, or get enough of there story to determine if they actually did it. (You?re be surprised how often we have 20 people say John Doe did it only to find out he was at work the whole time, it?s important to check these alibis) In court often times we will testify on the procedure of the investigation how things were found and to explain the conclusions made. Hard science, if it?s used at all, is often left to those experts.

 

[ace_of_something]

OK, so I'm planning on doing a chemistry degree but recently have found a certain passion for detective work, particularly on the forensic side of crime investigation. The uni's I am most interested in do have optional modules concerning forensic chemistry. So how easy do you think it would be to get into the forensic investigation career with an MChem?

EDIT: 2nd question. There are often many stories here in England about burglars who have pressed charges against people for being injured on their property. So I was wondering whether you knew to what extent I can "protect myself" against someone who trespasses on my property with malicious intentions.

Chemistry is an excellent choice for getting in to forensics especially if you want to work with vice squads. Chemists are needed to test purity and in some cases, if it?s even a drug. (I had one memorable instance where a dude was selling baking soda, he?s lucky no one killed him) In the US this usually means you work for the FBI. Which is where much of this stuff is sent.

Most of those stories are complete fabrications. People just want to believe those urban myths about our litigious societies. Around here if someone breaks in to your house it?s assumed they mean to do you harm, even if they are unarmed, so you can use lethal force if needed (But don?t expect to get free and clear easily if you plug a burglar). One thing I feel I need to make clear here though is that, if someone has committed a crime and is now RUNNING AWAY FROM YOU, you cannot hurt them anymore, because you?re no longer in danger.
About 3 months ago I had two guys that tried to mug one guy with knives. The guy handed over his wallet. As the two suspects turned around he picked up a brick and wailed on both of them. Nobody died. The guy who got mugged had to be given assault charges (Though he plead guilty and they dropped to almost nothing, the DA understood where the guy was coming from)
The best thing you can do is install a burglar alarm, I am a huge advocate of these things. It scares many of them off. And honestly costs a lot less than dogs and guns in the long run as once most of them are installed the require very little to maintain. I have one on my house. (Plus a VERY VISABLE camera on the back of my house)

 

[ace_of_something]

It's a horrible thing to ask yet one more TV show question, but have you seen The Wire? If so, what do you think of it? Since it's earned its acclaim by being allegedly incredibly accurate, I'd love to know your thoughts.

Here's another one, though: How hard is it to deal with citizens whose crimes you know are highly likely to go unsolved? I have to imagine most burglaries do.

I'm curious if You've ever seen the HBO series "The Wire". If so, exactly how realistic/authentic is it?

I have no seen the show, though I know it?s based on one of my favorite books [a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homicide:_A_Year_on_the_Killing_Streets]Homicide[/a] highly recommend it. Many of the terms used in the book (red ball, dunker, and ?in the black?) we use just as much.

It is very frustrating to have a crime not be able to be solved. Actually burglaries tend to get solved it just takes a long time. Because if you catch a guy there?s a damn good chance you can link him back to 6 or 7 other burglaries. Usually we catch them when they try to sell their ill gotten gains. The hardest one to solve is muggings. They are usually random and with few/no witnesses. It sucks because when a crime goes unsolved that victim loses that much more faith in the police and who knows when we might need that citizen to provide important information later down the road.

 

[ace_of_something]

Have you ever pirated music/listened to disclaimer less music on youtube?

I was in college at the height of the napster era. So yep. However, once that went down I pretty much stopped. I haven?t done it since. Never did with movies or games.
I hadn?t even thought about the youtube thing. I suppose you?ve got me there as well.

Describe (if you haven't already) your average day at work.

Are you of Norwegian ancestry?

Well, I?m on nights:
Basically, I wait by the phone if I don?t have any cases to do any active investigation on (all dead ends, done everything I can) while doing this I catch up on paperwork and scan craigslist and similar sites checking serial numbers If possible to see if anything is for sale. Since, I work nights this is my responsibility. The day guys go and check pawnshops Sometime in there either I or my partner will go do the brief paperwork to check out a vehicle. We like to do this BEFORE we need it so we can go quickly.
. If a call is had. I do what is described in post 136 of this thread (I can?t get the damn link to work). Sometimes especially with robberies I describe the non-specific details that are needed for our media liaison to give to the local news outlets.
Hmmm? When I describe it like that it sounds kind of boring?

My grandfather immigrated here from Norway he lived in a village about ?a day?s ride east of Bergen. He came to the USA when he was like 19 with his two younger sisters. This was done because both of his older brothers got pulled in to WWII. So my great uncles? kids and their grandkids and such still live in Norway.
Irony?
My grandfather was drafted in the USA army after living in the US as a legal citizen for about 3 months.

 

[Phoenixlight]

Are any weapons legal in the U.K. for home use only to defend yourself against burgalars?

 

[Katana314]

I'm something of a fan of the Ace Attorney games (a lawyer game that is all too often very detective-related) and a lot of the cases there seem to follow some trends. There are about 6 or 7 people "involved" with a given incident and any one of them could be a suspect; then most of the time is spent on what, specifically, actually happened (the body was brought over HERE and then they planted THAT person's fingerprints on the gun...) and a lot less on motive than is on TV.

So to the actual question: What are normally the stronger factors to tracking down a killer? Evidence in the circumstances of the crime scene? Witness testimony of someone willing to speak up? Or, just motive and then connecting items in their apartment?

Also, any amusingly 'unrealistic' cases you've seen that seem like they might have happened on TV? (The butler did it!)