Atari Founder: PC Piracy About to be Eradicated

[Dejawesp]

Actually, that's exactly the reason for all the pirating.

It does'nt matter what the prices are. Some people would still rather steal since tehnicaly it's "free". and market prices can't compete with "free games" as the pirates and users of the pirated games leech off of the market and the honest consumers.

The problem is that it has become too socialy acceptable to pirate games and law enforcement has had trouble responding enough to scare people away from doing it so people are able to convince themselves that it's not immoral and since police have not dragged them off kicking and screaming yet then it does'nt atleast "feel" illegal.

Thankfully there are still enough people buying the games legaly to make it worth while making them but the piracy still comes out of my pocket since the companies that make games have to start factoring in piracy into the cost and so it hurts both the company and the honest consumer.

 

[The Thief]

You could also blame the prices of PC hardware for pirating. I'm sure some people blow all their cash on an expensive rig and cut costs by pirating the games.

That's where the money is in PC gaming; The hardware. You can't pirate hardware. I wonder how much money hardware companies made from games like Crysis. If Crysis came out only on a console I bet it would lose less money to piracy, but that's nothing compared to the money the hardware companies would lose.

I really doubt piracy will ever kill PC gaming. Even if PC gaming died, and games were console exclusive, console piracy would skyrocket. Afterall, consoles are becoming more and more like PC's every generation.

I'm not saying piracy is alright, but I'm not going to be a dick and say it's the scourge of PC gaming. I'll bet DRM is more likely to kill PC gaming than piracy.

 

[Dejawesp]

You could also blame the prices of PC hardware for pirating.

Or you could blame pirating for pirating. Theives have been around since the dawn of time and you blame them for their actions. Not the honest merchants.

I'll bet DRM is more likely to kill PC gaming than piracy.

DRM is feed by pirating Not the other way around. The more games get pirated the greater effort has to be put on fighting it.

You all say that copy protection is the reason pirate. So where did the first copy protection get created as defence against?

The reason you have trouble with DRM is because pirating is forcing the companies to take more drastic actions in fighting it.

First people started pirating out of greed and as a result came the first copy protection. It was'nt invasive. It was simple and just did it's job. The pirates still as greedy as ever and refusing the idea of having to pay for something like honest people attacked and defeated the worlds first copy protection. What did the companies have to do as a result? Make a strong copy protection. Which the pirates then broke and companies where forced to respond again.

You all act like the copy protection system is the agressor but all it's doing is defending against the pirates attacks. Pirates that you now attempt to defend and who's actions you try to justify by saying that the copy protection is too invasive. Well guess what. The reason it has been forced to become so invasive is because your pirate heroes have spent the past decades attacking it and now you wonder why the discs are built like tiny software fortresses.

This is another huge problem with this debate: the world is not divided into "pirates" and "honest consumers."

There are some people who will steal all that they can.

There are some people who will never steal.

The vast majority of people are somewhere in the middle. This whole discussion is moot until we start acknowledging that.

So we have people who steal and people who don't steal. Who is the 3rd group?

People who almost steal?
Only steal a little bit?
Kind of steal?
Steal but feel bad about it?
Steal but do it from big companies so it's cool?

 

[Nugoo]

First people started pirating out of greed and as a result came the first copy protection. It was'nt invasive. It was simple and just did it's job. The pirates still as greedy as ever and refusing the idea of having to pay for something like honest people attacked and defeated the worlds first copy protection. What did the companies have to do as a result? Make a strong copy protection. Which the pirates then broke and companies where forced to respond again.

That's an interesting point. The DRM hasn't been addressing the problem at all. Pirates don't pirate games because it's easy, they pirate games because they don't want to pay for them, or because they want to try them out first, or because they want to get around the DRM. Making the DRM more intrusive and making the games more expensive aren't going to make pirates more likely to want to pay for the game, but they are going to make paying customers less likely to want to pay for the game. I understand that raising prices can increase revenue, provided you don't drive away too many customers, but I find it very hard to believe that more obnoxious DRM is beneficial for anyone.

 

[The Thief]

DRM will always be cracked. It's a LOST CAUSE. Once you and the companies wrap your head around that they can actually start solving the problem. The arms race they are doing with pirates is benefiting nobody, it only inconveniences their honest customers.

I've never seen somebody jump to defend something so dearly while the company you defend treats you like the rest of the criminals.

Piracy is wrong, we all know that. Nobody is trying to justify piracy. All we are saying is that piracy exists for a reason, and that reason isn't as simple as "I want free stuff."

You could also blame the prices of PC hardware for pirating.

Or you could blame pirating for pirating. Theives have been around since the dawn of time and you blame them for their actions. Not the honest merchants.

That makes no sense at all. If a PC was free, I'm sure games would seem less expensive. I'm not saying it's the sole cause for piracy, nor that it's the companies' fault, so don't jump to that conclusion.

 

[Dejawesp]

Because it does'nt only exist to bug people. They do stop a awhole lot of people from pirating. Enough to make it worth keeping up the effort. Just because police can't stop all crime does'nt mean the police force needs to be shut down. All that matters is that they stop enough to make a real difference. And copy protection efforts do just that. Sadly as an unfortunate side effect some honest consumers are hurt in the crossfire but not because the developers of the copy protection wants them to get hurt. The developers do everything they can to prevent that honest people are effected but it's a tough fight and some collateral damage is unavoidable because of the pirates tenacity and dedication to their illegal profession combined with these people who worship them for it.

Meanwhile where is my medal for coining the phrase "tiny software fortresses"?

DRM will always be cracked. It's a LOST CAUSE.

Would you tell the police the same thing? You cant prevent *all* crime so you should just stop trying? The point is that they prevent enough of it to justify their existance.

I've never seen somebody jump to defend something so dearly while the company you defend treats you like the rest of the criminals.

I'm not defending the companies because I have any particular love for them. But I also don't feel that their legal behavior makes them valid targets for illegal action. We are'nt being treated like criminals by the companies. We are like travelers going through the metal detector at an airport. The very fact that we have to pass the detector does not mean that we are accused of being criminals. It just means that they don't know what we are but that they would like to know. Here is my ID officer. Honest customer Dejawesp. Not offended.

All we are saying is that piracy exists for a reason, and that reason isn't as simple as "I want free stuff."

Correct but "I want free stuff" is a fuel powerful enough to drive the pirates effort wherever they want to go and at the same time it hs a biproduct of their creations. As much as I would like to bellive that there are pirates that only crack games for the sake of supplying honest customers with games that free of any DRM problems. That is a pipe dream. Pirates don't exist for that purpose and when they do create something it gets swallowed by the "I want free stuff." crowd and so no matter what the pirate in question has for intensions. His work is harmfull.


If anyone or anything needs to be blamed for the existance of piracy then it is the people who perform piracy. No one else.

 

[The Thief]

DRM will always be cracked. It's a LOST CAUSE.

Would you tell the police the same thing? You cant prevent *all* crime so you should just stop trying? The point is that they prevent enough of it to justify their existance.

Ummm, I'm pretty sure anybody who wants a pirated copy of a game and has internet can get one. That's not stopping anyone.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

DRM will always be cracked. It's a LOST CAUSE.

Would you tell the police the same thing? You cant prevent *all* crime so you should just stop trying? The point is that they prevent enough of it to justify their existance.

Yeh, but putting carlocks on cars just leads to more money for the carlock manufacturer. A simple case of vigilance and public support is the best anti-piracy measure. Or certain OS manufacturers blocking illegal copies. Or someone dealing with P2P sharing.

 

[The Thief]

The PC industry, when it comes to DRM, is destroying the villages to save them.

Now that's medal worthy.

If anyone or anything needs to be blamed for the existance of piracy then it is the people who perform piracy. No one else.

Just because what you're doing isn't illegal it doesn't mean you're clear from blame.

 

[Dejawesp]

Seriously, maybe you need to reign in the ego a little bit if you're asking for people to start giving you kudos for using a rather pedestrian metaphor. Maybe something is lost in the translation because your English skills are not what you think they are, but the phrase "tiny software fortresses" really isn't all that special.

And so the conversation degrades even further. If my english is so terrible hard for you to understand. Then your english reading comprehension must be alot more limited than my english writing.

Pardon for trying to lighten the conversation up a little with the fortress joke.

Ummm, I'm pretty sure anybody who wants a pirated copy of a game and has internet can get one. That's not stopping anyone.

You would think so but that is very far from the truth. Some are easier to find when you know where to look but the majority either does'nt know where to look or they can't be bothered to start searching from scratch.

 

[The Thief]

Ummm, I'm pretty sure anybody who wants a pirated copy of a game and has internet can get one. That's not stopping anyone.

You would think so but that is very far from the truth. Some are easier to find when you know where to look but the majority either does'nt know where to look or they can't be bothered to start searching from scratch.

If they don't know where to look or can't be bothered then not having DRM would make no difference.

 

[Dejawesp]

Of course I am. I'm the consumer. I have a vested interest to get as much bang for my buck as possible.

And the companies interest is to get as much buck for their bang as possible. When something is not sold for the price that you like. That does'nt mean that the price is somehow wrong and you are well within your rights to say that you don't like the price but when you wholeheartedly make the accusation that the price is faulty then you are speaking from opinion and rejecting reason.

You are coming across more and more as a corporate tool.

So would I be any less of a tool if I rejected my own views for fear of someone like you comparing me to a corporate drone?

Yeah I'm going to take advice on debating from someone who starts a sentence with the word dude.

This post did'nt quite feel right when I wrote it and it does'nt feel any better now. You did'nt deserve that and I apologize for saying it.

Ever heard of the Pirate Bay? Even my mum uses it, and she's freakin' useless when it comes to the internet.

The pirate bay is a sinking ship. Slowly sinking with each lawsuit and using the page is ill adviced as one day they will be subpoenaed for users ip adresses and they will go down with their users. The pirate bay is far too public for it's own activities.

If they don't know where to look or can't be bothered then not having DRM would make no difference.

Ofcourse it does. If there was no DRM then the cd burner that comes with each computer would be more than enough and people would be passing around cds for fun like in the old days.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

Y'know, when the rape, murder, armed robbery, mugging, assault, GBH and all the other violent crime rates drop to minimal, then law enforcement can waste their time on protecting publishers loss of .5% of their profit margins. .