Atari Founder: PC Piracy About to be Eradicated

Samirat

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Software pirates do have a tendency to view themselves as victimized freedom fighters, championing some noble cause or other.

Free games seems like a great idea, except for one little problem: Games aren't free.

Sure, you might weakly attempt to rationalize it by arguing that you're not directly hurting the developers, but instead the big publishing companies. Ultimately, however, you're hurting the entire industry that you're a beneficiary of. All money that flows into and out of the gaming industry comes from sales, in one way or another. Hurting the publishers, however big their company, however deep their pockets, will eventually hurt the developers and the consumers too.

That being said, you're free to pirate to your hearts content. But, except in very select circumstances, where you have some concern other than saving money, it's fairly simple. Piracy is a crime.

Go ahead, steal, but please don't lie to yourself about it, justify your crimes with arguments, or hide behind your illusions and "verbosity." Except in very specific cases, if you are pirating software, what you are doing is fairly clearly wrong. You are a criminal, and you are a scumbag. And being a self-righteous scumbag is even worse.

My conscience is not entirely clean. But I'll have to live with that.
 

bkd69

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Dejawesp said:
Saying that making a game so cheap that it's not worth stealing does'nt make much sense because that would still be far bellow the costs required to develope and distribute them and it's right up there with "If Ford started selling their new cars for $10 each then people would'nt be stealing them so it's fords fault that people steal cars"
Wow. Son, why I do believe you've done brought a croquet mallet to a badminton match.

See, the issue is, that's it's exceedingly hard to see the game companies as victims here. Say CoD1-4 sold, on average, 250k units +- 18%. Now, if the development costs and related business plan require selling 400k units for CoD5, that's not any pirate's fault. If, otoh, the business plan only requires selling 250k units, like any reasonable plan would, and the DRM is only inflicted on paying customers in an effort to convert estimated Imaginary Pirate Revenue into real money, then again, I'm finding it real difficult to feel the sympathy here.

Brad Wardell's point was that exactly. You spend as much as you expect to recoup from sales. Imaginary Pirate Revenue can't be entered into the balance sheet, so you give priority to those users that are actually giving you money, and when they say DRM is hurting them, you drop it.

After all, nobody pirates Bejeweled, do they?
 

ElArabDeMagnifico

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Alright, time to kill the piracy debate.

Piracy & PC Gaming
By Draginol Posted March 10, 2008 20:48:46

Recently there has been a lot of talk about how piracy affects PC gaming. And if you listen to game developers, it apparently is a foregone conclusion - if a high quality PC game doesn't sell as many copies as it should, it must be because of piracy.

Now, I don't like piracy at all. It really bugs me when I see my game up on some torrent site just on the principle of the matter. And piracy certainly does cost sales. But arguing that piracy is the primary factor in lower sales of well made games? I don't think so. People who never buy software aren't lost sales.
Is it about business or glory?

Most people who know of Stardock in the gaming world think of it as a tiny indie shop. And we certainly are tiny in terms of game development. But in the desktop enhancement market, Stardock owns that market and it's a market with many millions of users. According to CNET, 6 of the top 10 most popular desktop enhancements are developed by Stardock. Our most popular desktop enhancement, WindowBlinds, has almost 14 million downloads just on Download.com. We have over a million registered users.

If you want to talk about piracy, talk about desktop enhancements. The piracy on that is huge. But the question isn't about piracy. It's about sales.

So here is the deal: When you develop for a market, you don't go by the user base. You go by the potential customer base. That's what most software companies do. They base what they want to create on the size of the market they're developing for. But not PC game developers.

PC game developers seem to focus more on the "cool" factor. What game can they make that will get them glory with the game magazines and gaming websites and hard core gamers? These days, it seems like game developers want to be like rock stars more than businessmen. I've never considered myself a real game developer. I'm a gamer who happens to know how to code and also happens to be reasonably good at business.

So when I make a game, I focus on making games that I think will be the most profitable. As a gamer, I like most games. I love Bioshock. I think the Orange Box is one of the best gaming deals ever. I love Company of Heroes and Oblivion was captivating. My two favorite games of all time are Civilization (I, II, III, and IV) and Total Annihilation. And I won't even get into the hours lost in WoW. Heck, I even like The Sims.

So when it comes time to make a game, I don't have a hard time thinking of a game I'd like to play. The hard part is coming up with a game that we can actually make that will be profitable. And that means looking at the market as a business not about trying to be "cool".
Making games for customers versus making games for users

So even though Galactic Civilizations II sold 300,000 copies making 8 digits in revenue on a budget of less than $1 million, it's still largely off the radar. I practically have to agree to mow editors lawns to get coverage. And you should see Jeff Green's (Games for Windows) yard. I still can't find my hedge trimmers.

Another game that has been off the radar until recently was Sins of a Solar Empire. With a small budget, it has already sold about 200,000 copies in the first month of release. It's the highest rated PC game of 2008 and probably the best selling 2008 PC title. Neither of these titles have CD copy protection.

And yet we don't get nearly the attention of other PC games. Lack of marketing on our part? We bang on the doors for coverage as next as the next shop. Lack of advertising? Open up your favorite PC game publication for the past few months and take note of all the 2 page spreads for Sins of a Solar Empire. So we certainly try.

But we still don't get the editorial buzz that some of the big name titles do because our genre isn't considered as "cool" as other genres. Imagine what our sales would be if our games had gotten game magazine covers and just massive editorial coverage like some of the big name games get. I don't want to suggest we get treated poorly by game magazine and web sites (not just because I fear them -- which I do), we got good preview coverage on Sins, just not the same level as one of the "mega" titles would get. Hard core gamers have different tastes in games than the mainstream PC gaming market of game buyers. Remember Roller Coaster Tycoon? Heck, how much buzz does The Sims get in terms of editorial when compared to its popularity. Those things just aren't that cool to the hard core gaming crowd that everything seems geared toward despite the fact that they're not the ones buying most of the games.

I won't even mention some of the big name PC titles that GalCiv and Sins have outsold. There's plenty of PC games that have gotten dedicated covers that haven't sold as well. So why is that?

Our games sell well for three reasons. First, they're good games which is a pre-requisite. But there's lots of great games that don't sell well.

The other two reasons are:

* Our games work on a very wide variety of hardware configurations.
* Our games target genres with the largest customer bases per cost to produce for.


We also don't make games targeting the Chinese market

When you make a game for a target market, you have to look at how many people will actually buy your game combined with how much it will cost to make a game for that target market. What good is a large number of users if they're not going to buy your game? And what good is a market where the minimal commitment to make a game for it is $10 million if the target audience isn't likely to pay for the game?

If the target demographic for your game is full of pirates who won't buy your game, then why support them? That's one of the things I have a hard time understanding. It's irrelevant how many people will play your game (if you're in the business of selling games that is). It's only relevant how many people are likely to buy your game.

Stardock doesn't make games targeting the Chinese market. If we spent $10 million on a PC game explicitly for the Chinese market and we lost our shirts, would you really feel that much sympathy for us? Or would you think "Duh."


You need a machine how fast?

Anyone who keeps track of how many PCs the "Gamer PC" vendors sell each year could tell you that it's insane to develop a game explicitly for hard core gamers. Insane. I think people would be shocked to find out how few hard core gamers there really are out there. This data is available. The number of high end graphics cards sold each year isn't a trade secret (in some cases you may have to get an NDA but if you're a partner you can find out). So why are companies making games that require them to sell to 15% of a given market to be profitable? In what other market do companies do that? In other software markets, getting 1% of the target market is considered good. If you need to sell 500,000 of your game to break even and your game requires Pixel Shader 3 to not look like crap or play like crap, do you you really think that there are 50 MILLION PC users with Pixel Shader 3 capable machines who a) play games and b) will actually buy your game if a pirated version is available?

In our case, we make games that target the widest possible audience as long as as we can still deliver the gaming experience we set out to. Anyone who's looked at the graphics in Sins of a Solar Empire would, I think, agree that the graphics are pretty phenomenal (particularly space battles). But could they be even fancier? Sure. But only if we degraded the gaming experience for the largest chunk of people who buy games.


The problem with blaming piracy

I don't want anyone to walk away from this article thinking I am poo-pooing the effect of piracy. I'm not. I definitely feel for game developers who want to make kick ass PC games who see their efforts diminished by a bunch of greedy pirates. I just don't count pirates in the first place. If you're a pirate, you don't get a vote on what gets made -- or you shouldn't if the company in question is trying to make a profit.

The reason why we don't put CD copy protection on our games isn't because we're nice guys. We do it because the people who actually buy games don't like to mess with it. Our customers make the rules, not the pirates. Pirates don't count. We know our customers could pirate our games if they want but choose to support our efforts. So we return the favor - we make the games they want and deliver them how they want it. This is also known as operating like every other industry outside the PC game industry.

One of the jokes I've seen in the desktop enhancement market is how "ugly" WindowBlinds skins are (though there are plenty of awesome ones too). But the thing is, the people who buy WindowBlinds tend to like a different style of skin than the people who would never buy it in the first place. Natural selection, so to speak, over many years has created a number of styles that seem to be unique to people who actually buy WindowBlinds. That's the problem with piracy. What gets made targets people who buy it, not the people who would never buy it in the first place. When someone complains about "fat borders" on some popular WindowBlinds skin my question is always "Would you buy WindowBlinds even if there was a perfect skin for you?" and the answer is inevitably "Probably not". That's how it works in every market -- the people who buy stuff call the shots. Only in the PC game market are the people who pirate stuff still getting the overwhelming percentage of development resources and editorial support.

When you blame piracy for disappointing sales, you tend to tar the entire market with a broad brush. Piracy isn't evenly distributed in the PC gaming market. And there are far more effective ways of getting people who might buy your product to buy it without inconveniencing them.

Blaming piracy is easy. But it hides other underlying causes. When Sins popped up as the #1 best selling game at retail a couple weeks ago, a game that has no copy protect whatsoever, that should tell you that piracy is not the primary issue.

In the end, the pirates hurt themselves. PC game developers will either slowly migrate to making games that cater to the people who buy PC games or they'll move to platforms where people are more inclined to buy games.

In the meantime, if you want to make profitable PC games, I'd recommend focusing more effort on satisfying the people willing to spend money on your product and less effort on making what others perceive as hot. But then again, I don't romanticize PC game development. I just want to play cool games and make a profit on games that I work on.

source: SoaSE website [http://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/post.aspx?postid=303512]

----
This chip won't stop me from being able to use Steam right? Also, I noticed that if they kill piracy with this, then console piracy will also come to a halt, because you need a PC to get those files.
 

Andy Chalk

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Fondant said:
In my current situation, I have no option but tor esort to piracy
More fallacious arguments. You do have an option - live without. Stealing a loaf of bread to feed your starving family is "I have no option." Stealing a game because you happen to be short on cash or there isn't a conveniently-nearby GameStop is something else entirely.

I'm going to bow out of this, because I've said all I have to say and I've heard all the excuses before. I'm a little short and surly with people who pirate games not only because of the negative impact it has on the industry, but because I'm sick of hearing the same tired, lazy and intellectually dishonest justifications for it, over and over again. Claiming some kind of moral high-ground stand against The Man, or casting yourself as a latter-day online Jean Valjean, changes absolutely nothing about the bottom-line truth of piracy: You're either cheap, dishonest or so monumentally ignorant that you actually believe it doesn't affect the industry, all the way down to individual gamers. There's really nothing more I could possibly add, and certainly nothing that I need to defend.

And for the record, I'm not a moderator so I can't actually have any of you killed ban anyone, but I would ask everyone to keep it civil. You know how we roll around here.
 

Nugoo

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Pirates are not victims, this much is obvious. The victims here are the people who buy the game. They are being punished for something they didn't do. It isn't fair because A) They aren't responsible for the actions of pirates, and B) The anti-piracy measures don't work anyway. The reason pirates come off as portraying themselves as victims is that they were victims. Back when they bought the games. Now they don't, so now they aren't victims.
 

Soulfein

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Fondant said:
In my current situation, I have no option but tor esort to piracy- especially if I want games like Fallout 2
So, its ok to steal if your too lazy to go on Ebay and buy it? I got Fallout 1, 2 and Tactics from ebay for about $15. These other games you mention could probably be procured in a similar manner. You cannot justify piracy by saying that it is impossible to get these things, because you CAN get them.
 

Bridgetbracer

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People have found ways around piracy protection before the game even hits retailer shelves. People will most likely find a way around this before it even hits shelves by studying its archetecutre, and even if they keep it super-secret, when it hits the public the more endeverous pirates will be going at it with a fine tooth comb asap.

As long as companies like EA continue to put privacy protection so awful that pirated versions are more likely to install and run than the original (this has happened to several people i know), the pirate is still going to be sailing the high seas.

Countries that per-capita make alot less money than the developed countries do have to pay alot more for the same games? This sounds more like bad business strategy than a problem with piracy.
 

Dejawesp

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Pirates are'nt around because people need them to get their legitimate games to work. They are around because people want free illegitimate games.

If anything you should blame the pirates for causing so much trouble that companies are forced to resort to extreme anti copy software and hardware. Not praise the pirates for half arsed fixing a situation they caused in the first place.

And who are all these people unable to run legit games because of the copy protection? I buy tons of games from all manor of developers and I have never had any copy protection get in the way of my gaming. Most likely all or most of them are people trying to run illegitimate games and then use the excuse that it in fact is legitimate to moraly defend asking for pirate software to get it working.
 

Incandescence

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Malygris said:
I'm going to bow out of this, because I've said all I have to say...
Before I follow suit, I wanted to throw a final short summation out there in the same vein as Malygris'.

Malygris, if anything, you've convinced me fairly soundly that pirating games is not morally justifiable. I agree that when pirates try to stand on their own moral ground, they start to sound pretty silly. I know anyone who reads my posts might be tempted to paraphrase them and lump them into that group of wannabe internet revolutionaries, but I kindly ask that any reader instead shy away from such generalizations and instead see that I've gone to significant lengths to avoid any moral justification in my argument--except when Root specifically asked for one. I don't think that pirates, or companies, or consumers are the victims in the relationship. I don't think that there is a victim to speak of--rather, they are all participants. I do believe that there are always going to be companies that make and sell games, consumers that buy them, and pirates that steal them.

When it comes down to it, my biggest problem with anti-piracy measures is not that they're keeping anyone "down" or that they befuddle honest consumers. To me, the biggest problem with anti-piracy measures is that they cost so much time, money, and intellectual capacity that could be put towards making better games. I know that--with the way piracy is now--companies will be less willing to put the effort into making a great game they know is just going to get stolen, but I'm a gamer and what I care about first and foremost is that I get to play games. Yes, it's an infantile and self-absorbed primary concern, but it's an infantile and self-absorbed industry. Piracy costs everybody in the chain of consumption, to some extent, and in a Western capitalist society a company faced with piracy has every right to implement anti-piracy measures in an attempt to stymie their losses. I don't think the question that follows is as simple as "what's a bigger profit leak, piracy or anti-piracy?" because that won't give us an implementable solution, just a better idea of who to blame. When it comes down to it, we've all got to share the blame for piracy and if we want to treat it like a serious problem, it's better that we all work together and realize what solutions aren't working. DRM and things like this TPM chip are ineffective, and legal action is too hard to pursue in an effective manner. It's time to look for another solution. In the meantime, I imagine the "scumbags" will keep on scumming, the consumers will keep on consuming, and the developers, publishers, and retailers will keep on developing, publishing, and retailing--an uneasy peace, all in all.
 

Bridgetbracer

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game companies don't lose near as much profit as they've led many people to believe. Its one of their scapegoats for when one of their products tank. If i where to download all 80 of The Sims 2 expansion packs, EA wouldn't feel the hurt.

I don't pirate, because the PC gaming scene is in a pretty low position as it is without another person contributing to game companies 'lets make it harder for them to steal our shitty software, instead of putting the money to making the games quality stuff that people won't be scared that they wasted their 50 bucks on something they'll never be able to sell back' mentality, but pretty much every companies stance towards this is complete bullshit, some people steal, so they use it to justify hiking costs across the board while at the same time insulting their users.

Plenty of pirates buy games, since alot of people pirate so they don't end up wasting their money like i did on games like Time Shift, Smash Brothers Brawl, and few others that i can't think of the name of because i let my friend borrow them.
 

Dejawesp

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A "little stealing" is still stealing. And if companies were to compleatly stop working on counter measures against piracy then they would not have more money to make better games. They would all be losing millions in missing sales because we would be back in 1995 and copying a game would only take a cd burner and the software it came with. They have to fight the pirates in order to stay in business. They dont have to have games that are compleatly impossible to copy. All they need to do is make it enough work to copy and use one that most people will still buy games.

The logic that they would save money by not spending any at all on copy protection is up there with banks saving money by not puting any into security.
 

The Thief

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The people who can't afford or are too cheap to buy the games are the ones who pirate them. The companies aren't going to gain any money from locking these people out, since they aren't willing to buy it anyways. That being the case, they aren't losing any money from them copying either.
 

Nugoo

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Dejawesp said:
A "little stealing" is still stealing. And if companies were to compleatly stop working on counter measures against piracy then they would not have more money to make better games. They would all be losing millions in missing sales because we would be back in 1995 and copying a game would only take a cd burner and the software it came with. They have to fight the pirates in order to stay in business. They dont have to have games that are compleatly impossible to copy. All they need to do is make it enough work to copy and use one that most people will still buy games.
But all it takes now is having the Internet. Do you really think that there are that many people who don't download games, but would copy their friends' CD's?
 

Dejawesp

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Simon_TR said:
The people who can't afford or are too cheap to buy the games are the ones who pirate them. The companies aren't going to gain any money from locking these people out, since they aren't willing to buy it anyways. That being the case, they aren't losing any money from them copying either.
Do you honestly bellive that there is'nt a major group of people who pirate it instead of buying it because they would rather have them for free?

Nugoo said:
But all it takes now is having the Internet. Do you really think that there are that many people who don't download games, but would copy their friends' CD's?
In todays society they would do both but games would come in the form of zip files found on megagames. They would be like roms you download for old snes emulators and very few people would actualy pay for them. No cd keys. All available auto updates and online play

The current system means you need to spend the better part of a day sifting through torrent pages and fileshare networks. Trying out multiple broken game downloads. Then you need to hunt down new cracks for each update and as for online play in most cases you can forget about it. Or go look for pirate servers where you can spend your time in the company of people as corrupted as you. Like you would deserve.

Geting games illegaly today and using them is a hassle. But had there not been effort made against pirating then it would have been like my first paragraph. Google the game name then one zip download later you would have a full game and the game industry would suffer greatly.

Although the anti-pirating effort will allways be weaker party. They have been keeping up the pace quite nicely as with every new generation it gets harder to get illegal games and more unfuriating to operate them
 

Bridgetbracer

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if companies 'had to fight to stay in business' then they would already all be bankrupt and dead except for the console exclusive game companies, EA, and Microsoft.

The truth is the amount of money they lose to piracy is greatly overblown, and considering the sheer amount of money they pull in from things like downloadable content, ie 'make a game, cut 20% of it off and then sell it back to them.', its not hard to see why people do it.

A good example of this is Need for Speed: Prostreet. I forget if it was touted as downloadable content or an expansion, but there was something for it you pay money to get some extra cars in the game....except anyone with about 3 minutes doing something in the game you could make them available without paying the money for whatever it was, it wasn't actual downloadable content, it was in the game all along, they wanted you to pay 10 bucks or something to get what was already included in the game from the get go.
 
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Markness said:
Edit: I feel traumatised, I need a cookie.
Have a whole box. I've a great deal of respect for those people who can admit mistakes. Especially here.

By the way though, that wasn't an insult. That was an indication of how blinkered Incandescence appears (by relating himself to Black Mage, of his own volition), whether he is or not. Legalese doesn't obscure basic dishonesty.

I have found that people like Incandescence do not want to be dissuaded but simply to learn what arguments are put against them, so there is no point in continuing to debase myself.
 

Girlysprite

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The problem with 'I can't afford the game' is that it implicitly says 'I have the right to play this game'. And that is not true; you don't have the right to play the game. You only have it when you pay for it. And now I have been thinking (hey, this thread made me change a thought!) steep prices aren't much of an excuse either; there is always ebay and amazon to serve you.

Maybe that is worth looking into; why do people think they have this right to play, no matter what?
 

Dejawesp

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Bridgetbracer said:
if companies 'had to fight to stay in business' then they would already all be bankrupt
All companies in the world have to fight to stay in business. Frequently and constantly. Even developers of first class games like Troika, 3DO and Cavedog went under.

To even start a company is a huge gamble. You start off with nothing but an idea and huge loans. Then when the idea blossoms you dont just ride on cloud nine for the rest. You have to fight more against competitors and an even bigger market as your company grows. Then one day you're on the top. You spend 13 hours a day in a board room disgusing how one of the latest titles did'nt sell well and some people need to be laid off.

The company still is good but it's allways an uneasy calm because some loss of creativity or a failing investment could bring your company down. After the 13 hour work day you go home to your mansion and think about what will happen to those 200.000 people you employ and how you might have to fire 20% of them next year. Or mayby 50% if the company has a bad year. You take a few minutes at the computer that you get in between working and sleeping and taking care of the family. And you read on an internet forum about some twit who thinks it's perfectly fine to steal from you because you have so much money anyway.

That's business.
 

Incandescence

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The_root_of_all_evil said:
I have found that people like Incandescence do not want to be dissuaded but simply to learn what arguments are put against them...
You've got me there. Though, I'm always open to convincing arguments--I just have firm beliefs.
 

The Thief

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Dejawesp said:
Simon_TR said:
The people who can't afford or are too cheap to buy the games are the ones who pirate them. The companies aren't going to gain any money from locking these people out, since they aren't willing to buy it anyways. That being the case, they aren't losing any money from them copying either.
Do you honestly bellive that there is'nt a major group of people who pirate it instead of buying it because they would rather have them for free?
No I don't. I'm sure there are some, but I doubt a major group. I think the large group of pirates are unwilling to buy the game even if there is no chance of a pirate copy.

PC piracy is blown way out of proportion. The truth is the companies have no idea how much money they are losing to piracy because there is no way of telling. I doubt what kind of anti-piracy a game has has more to do with sales than how good a game is. Just read the article posted by ElArabDeMagnifico.