Bad games of gaming's past. Are they still bad now?

[Samtemdo8]

Been watching videos of Matt McMuscles "Wha Happun" and some of these games that are bad I played first hand recently and it got me thinking.

Are they still "bad" now?

I recall playing Duke Nukem Forever long after it came out in 2011. My honest experience is that while it has its blemishes, its not really that bad of game ultimately. Its playable, it has moments that were cool and such.

Same with Doom 3 a game that is seen as retroactively bad because of a bunch of factors, 1. its not a sprawling Boomer Shooter, its trying to be diet Half Life 1, and 2. Half Life 2 (and Halo 2) overshadowed it hard. But Doom 3 isn't the worse thing ever, Its playable, its competent a shooter, and yes the graphics were cutting edge at the time, the lighting still holds up so much so that its engine was put to good use in the Thief fan game called the Dark Mod.

So yeah I'm just thinking about this and wondering what games that are popular conceived as bad are actually ok by today's standards or still hold up as being bad?

The latter in my case of course applies to games like Superman N64 and such.

 

[Worgen]

Duke Nukem Forever is still crap. The best levels are oddly enough, the ones that were taken from the older builds.

Doom 3 can't really be judged in this way, its not a bad game at all, its quite good, but its not what people were hoping for from a Doom game. So it really gets hate for not living up to the expectations people had.

You will have attitudes to bad games soften as time goes on, but with how many sequels we get, a bad game doesn't stay in the public consciousness long enough to be proved not bad since there is always the next game.

 

[BrawlMan]

Are they still "bad" now?

Depends on the game in question. God Hand got mixed reception, but is a great game misunderstood by those who can't play for shit or hate brawlers. IGN's infamous "3.0/10 review" didn't help, along with Capcom advertising the game with little to no fanfare.

Killer is Dead is considered a bad game by professionals, but most fans and gaming audiences that played the game consider it between decent and good. This happens a lot with most of Grasshopper's titles.

I recall playing Duke Nukem Forever long after it came out in 2011. My honest experience is that while it has its blemishes, its not really that bad of game ultimately. Its playable, it has moments that were cool and such.

The game is bad, but even worse on 360 and PS3. The PC version is not so bad only because of fan mods and patches (something neither consoles got), and The Doctor Who Cloned Me Expansion. Seen as better and slight improvement over the base game. DNF didn't help itsellf with making the same mistakes as modern shooters, yet having the gall to mock them for it. Especially when it did most of things so much worse.

Same with Doom 3 a game that is seen as retroactively bad because of a bunch of factors, 1. its not a sprawling Boomer Shooter, its trying to be diet Half Life 1, and 2. Half Life 2 (and Halo 2) overshadowed it hard. But Doom 3 isn't the worse thing ever, Its playable, its competent a shooter, and yes the graphics were cutting edge at the time, the lighting still holds up so much so that its engine was put to good use in the Thief fan game called the Dark Mod.

Doom 3 was always love it or hate it territory. Feelings only softened up due to the Resurrection of Evil expansion, and vindication, because of the abundance of COD/Modern Military clones in the early to mid 2010s. The hatred is nowhere as strong as it used to be in the mid to late 2000s. I like and respect Doom 3, but Doom 64 has always been the true "Doom 3" to me. It's been canon since 2016, so it only validated me and other fans of the game further.

So yeah I'm just thinking about this and wondering what games that are popular conceived as bad are actually ok by today's standards or still hold up as being bad?

• Gungrave - Though most people liked it over what the critics said. The sequels are so much worse. First game is still the best in the franchise
• God Hand - I already explained.
• Oneechanbara: Bikini Zombie Slayers - Decent, but not something I would pay $30 at the start. It's a budget title, but something you should pay for $15 or less. I got it for $5. The critics hate this franchise in general, but the newer games have been doing well enough in both regions to stick around.
• Double Dragon IV - Decent game, but everyone was still on the Double Dragon Neon high. It's a fine game and is completely fun, despite some bad platforming. It's the best and most accessible of the NES style Double Dragon games, and has the best replay value. Even beating out Neon in this regard. You have a versus mode, survival mode (you unlock even more characters the further you get), unlockable characters, and even can play as an enemy or a boss in the main story mode. As long as you're getting the digital version, which usually goes on sale any way, then you're good. I got the physical version on Switch from Best Buy, because I liked it so much on PS4.
• Kill La Kill IF - The best anime arena fighter as far as I am concerned. While lacking in characters, makes up for unique combat and a few extra challenge modes. Too bad the online has been dead for years. I like the game because they brought back all of the English voice actors from the anime reprising their roles. You can't say the same for a majority of licensed anime games in general, where they'll just keep it in Japanese to save money. When they're not even losing much by dubbing.

 

[CriticalGaming]

I gotta be honest. Duke Nukem Forever is legit good imo. Think of the environment in which it released when every game was a drab boring war shooter. DNF came out and while it wasnt revolutionary at all, had level deversity, had gameplay gimmicks that broke up the shooting, it tried to be funny, and it had boobs.

Honestly i really enjoyed it and thought it was one of the best shooters of the era because the other shooters were bland repetitive trash. Of course that just means Duke was king of the trash pile but that has to account for something right?

 

[BrawlMan]

DNF came out and while it wasnt revolutionary at all, had level deversity, had gameplay gimmicks that broke up the shooting, it tried to be funny, and it had boobs.

The problem is diversity in level design was the only thing it had going for it. Most of the gimmicks were annoying or not fun, and only existed for padding. It had regenerating health (that could be upgraded) and the two-weapon limit you would see in military shooters (something DNF actually mocks in-game and treats itself as it's leading the pack). Sure, the PC version added proper updates, patches, and mods, but most gamers are shit out of luck on consoles.

Of course that just means Duke was king of the trash pile but that has to account for something right?

No. All it means is that game sat for over 10 years doing nothing, because the creators and development couldn't sit on a single idea just release the game when it was supposed to prior. Too many other games, genres, and franchises either innovated, brought something new to the table, or added on a better gaming experience. Like I said before, Bulletstorm is better modern Duke Nukem game than DNF. Hell, Serious Sam accomplished that since The First Encounter. Ironic, because Sam himself started off as Duke expy before re-designing him in The Second Encounter and the XBOX port of both games. There already better shooters that were out immediately afterward or just before. Too bad most of them were on Steam at the time, and not on consoles until the 8th generation. Hard Reset being one of them. Lo Wang ,from Shadow Warrior, was once known as Asian Duke Nukem back in the 90s. Yet the modern reboot games are better than DNF, with or without comparison. Though I never cared for Shadow Warrior 2, and I am waiting for Shadow Warrior 3 to on sale for $20-$25.

 

[Samtemdo8]

I gotta be honest. Duke Nukem Forever is legit good imo. Think of the environment in which it released when every game was a drab boring war shooter. DNF came out and while it wasnt revolutionary at all, had level deversity, had gameplay gimmicks that broke up the shooting, it tried to be funny, and it had boobs.

Honestly i really enjoyed it and thought it was one of the best shooters of the era because the other shooters were bland repetitive trash. Of course that just means Duke was king of the trash pile but that has to account for something right?

Part of me hoped you would say Final Fantasy 2, 8, or the 13 Trilogy

 

[Samtemdo8]

The problem is diversity in level design was the only thing it had going for it. Most of the gimmicks were annoying or not fun, and only existed for padding. It had regenerating health (that could be upgraded) and the two-weapon limit you would see in military shooters (something DNF actually mocks in-game and treats itself as it's leading the pack). Sure, the PC version added proper updates, patches, and mods, but most gamers are shit out of luck on consoles.


No. All it means is that game sat for over 10 years doing nothing, because the creators and development couldn't sit on a single idea just release the game when it was supposed to prior. Too many other games, genres, and franchises either innovated, brought something new to the table, or added on a better gaming experience. Like I said before, Bulletstorm is better modern Duke Nukem game than DNF. Hell, Serious Sam accomplished that since The First Encounter. Ironic, because Sam himself started off as Duke expy before re-designing him in The Second Encounter and the XBOX port of both games. There already better shooters that were out immediately afterward or just before. Too bad most of them were on Steam at the time, and not on consoles until the 8th generation. Hard Reset being one of them. Lo Wang ,from Shadow Warrior, was once known as Asian Duke Nukem back in the 90s. Yet the modern reboot games are better than DNF, with or without comparison. Though I never cared for Shadow Warrior 2, and I am waiting for Shadow Warrior 3 to on sale for $20-$25.

Still looking forward to the the Restoration Project of the 2001 Build of DNF coming to completion

 

[Worgen]

Though I never cared for Shadow Warrior 2, and I am waiting for Shadow Warrior 3 to on sale for $20-$25.

 

[BrawlMan]

On PSN.

Shadow Warrior 3: Definitive Edition | PS4 & PS5

Bring a Katana to a Gunfight

store.playstation.com

My laptop can't run those type of games. I appreciate the effort though. Good news is that Prodeus is on sale for Switch, and I'm going to pick up that.

 

[Worgen]

On PSN.

Shadow Warrior 3: Definitive Edition | PS4 & PS5

Bring a Katana to a Gunfight

store.playstation.com

I still can't see fps games outside of Halo working with a controller. I mean, I know they do ever since Halo showed devs how to make them work, but it still seems foreign and weird to me.

 

[Worgen]

My laptop can't run those type of games. I appreciate the effort though. Good news is that Prodeus is on sale on switch, and I'm going to pick up that.

Prodeus is pretty damn good, the early access was kinda disappointing since it was in early access forever and it doesn't seem like they added too much new stuff in all that time from the original launch. Like they added maybe as many new levels as were in early access and like 4 or 5 new guns in about 2 years of early access, doesn't seem like much.

 

[BrawlMan]

I still can't see fps games outside of Halo working with a controller. I mean, I know they do ever since Halo showed devs how to make them work, but it still seems foreign and weird to me.

Most of good or decent fps games work fine for me. I know mouse and keyboard are better, but it doesn't matter so long as the auto aim is generous and not overbearing. I usually turn it off a majority of the time, so I am used to either.

Prodeus is pretty damn good, the early access was kinda disappointing since it was in early access forever and it doesn't seem like they added too much new stuff in all that time from the original launch. Like they added maybe as many new levels as were in early access and like 4 or 5 new guns in about 2 years of early access, doesn't seem like much.

Good thing for me, I never bothered with the Early Access.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

DNF came out and while it wasnt revolutionary at all, had level deversity, had gameplay gimmicks that broke up the shooting, it tried to be funny, and it had boobs.

If the chef takes a shit on my steak tartare, that's "something new", but I'm not leaving a tip. And the robots having sex in NieR: Automata was more erotic than the glassy-eyed, plasticine "women" that appeared in DNF. Personally, I wanted the aliens to win and kill all the humans.

 

[Worgen]

Good thing for me, I never bothered with the Early Access.

Its still a quite good fps game, just was expecting them to do much more with their lengthy early access, plus it still feels like that was only episode 1.

 

[Samtemdo8]

This thread devolved into something else.

 

[FakeSympathy]

Hmm, I remember Batman Arkham Knight getting some horrible receptions due to pc launch disaster and bat-tank shtick. But I honestly thought the story, the gotham city, and the combat were really awesome.

Battlefront 2 (by EA) was quite shit, but they tried to make the game better by getting rid of lootboxes and bringing content updates. Too bad they stopped support for this game for BF2042.

I heard Megaman Zero 4 was disappointing to many, but I thought it was a decent conclusion of Zero's story

David Cage games have always been mocked for gameplay being rather simple. While I agree, I think these opinions ignore the amazing storytelling and philosophical messages delivered in the plots.

 

[BrawlMan]

I heard Megaman Zero 4 was disappointing to many, but I thought it was a decent conclusion of Zero's story

Zero 4's reception was fine overall, and many liked the ending, but you had the hardcore fans complaining the game is "too easy". The game is still challenging, but not crushing your genital area to get the point across, Most people I've seen or talked to who played the game like the conclusion, and prefer it to over the crap that happens after Mega Man X5.

 

[BrawlMan]

While I agree, I think these opinions ignore the amazing storytelling and philosophical messages delivered in the plots.

I heavily disagree. All of his plots are shit or the game's don't explore enough and use the shallowest parts without having message to stick by or drop it later on out of convivence. Too bad Telltale (at one point) and the Until Dawn developers do a better job than whatever Cage could muster. Even his "best game", Detroit: Become Human, he was mostly hands off with the writing, so some better parts could slip in. It still does not change the fact that the game's "racism is bad" message is tone deaf, barely explored, and uses little understanding of the Civil Rights Movement and America's racism. Let alone the racism Detroit actually had in the past. So the weird and bad Cagism still gets in through the cracks.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

...

Yes.

 

[Hawki]

So, in other words, games that were regarded as being bad at release, but have been re-evaluated since then?

Well, combination of personal and general stuff, I guess I can nominate:

-Assassin's Creed: Unity (this seems to have been re-evaluated favourably, could be wrong)
-Diablo III (always liked it myself, but it seems that more people are favourable now than it was when it released)
-Doom 3 (as above)
-Dragon Age II (seems to be more favourably regarded these days)
-The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (people detested the graphics at launch, more popular now, became my favourite LoZ game)
-Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty (dunno if this was ever regarded as "bad," but seems to be better regarded now than when it first came out)
-Sonic Unleashed (mostly crashed and burned when it came out, these days, it seems to be regarded more fondly - true for myself as well)
-World of Warcraft: Mists of Pandaria (can't comment with much authority, but people seemed to detest it when it came out, these days, people seem to like it more, especially in light of Dragonflight)