Bad guys you quickly/later realized weren't actually evil.

djAMPnz

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Just about every Grand Theft Auto game has the opposite of this. Well, most people the protagonist interacts with aren't exactly good, but it always turns out that someone you thought was on your side turns out to be against you.
 

Teh Jammah

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From a pure game-only perspective I would agree with Saren. Taking the expanded universe into consideration though, kinda disqualifies him, as it's made abundantly clear that he intended to overthrow the council and create a turian dominated galaxy (with himself at the head) from the get go, even before he 'found' Sovereign, and that he was just as much of a ruthless bastard then as he was in the game itself.

My personal one was Knight-Commander Meredith from DA2. My first few playthroughs were mostly pro-mage (the first time due to being one, the second due to being a goody two shoes, Merril romancing warrior kinda guy) - and while I did eventually pick the 'side with Templars' ending (just to see what happened), I was mostly atipathetic to her. Then I decided to play as a 'bastard conversation option' rogue in a Fenris romance and went full blown anti-mage and finally found out exactly why she's the anti-mage hardass that she is, and that she wasn't just a ***** with a stick up her ass - she actually had good reason

What with her sister being an apostate who got possessed by a demon and all
 

direkiller

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nuba km said:
3. Talos wasn't a god he was a man who drove the NATIVE elves of skyrim underground in the name of the nords, nearly committing genocide, the native elves were then forced into slavery and blinded by the dwemer turning them into the falmer and now talos is worshiped like a god for it, even though he was just a man.
.
he was accepted as a god by the outer gods

if that dosen't do it oblivion kinda proved he was a god
as you needed the blood of a divine to open a gate to paradise and you used his and i don't think magic rituals to rip open a door to a Dadric lord's summer home work on the wishful thinking of the population.
 

Canadamus Prime

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3 legged goat said:
The Empire in Skyrim. They are made to be the bad guys in the beginning but they are actually trying to do their best to maintain stability. All the bad stuff that the Empire does is because of the Elves. Ulfric Stormcloak is the real bad guy.
I don't know, it seems to me that just about everybody in Skyrim is a total douchebag.
 

hermes

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MiracleOfSound said:
Every single character in Game Of Thrones.
Well, except Joffrey. He's just a complete prick.
I never changed sympathies for the best there... It always worked to the other side: characters that were introduced as good later find out that were kind of awful.
Except for Tyron, he is one of the best characters in any fantasy novel...
-Seraph- said:
Well there is Magus from Chrono Trigger. Ya think he's the biggest issue pertaining to Lavos, but he's really just out to defeat Lavos in his own way. More of an anti-hero than a villain afterwards.
I was about to name him... Also, it helps that Toriyama is involved and Magus was pretty much "the Vegeta" of that game.
 

The Funslinger

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MiracleOfSound said:
Every single character in Game Of Thrones.





Well, except Joffrey. He's just a complete prick.
And all of the Starks. They never even gave the impression of having villainous intentions.
I'm a little worried Arya is descending into darkness.

Petyr "littlefinger" Baelish's motives for his dickery aren't exactly villainous, but they don't really absolve him of being a dick.
 

DkLnBr

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A lot of the examples are from videogames, so im going to be different and use a TV show. Anyone know the French show Wakfu? Well the bad guy from the first season, Nox. He is useing item known as the Eliacube, draining Wakfu from just about everything (Wakfu is sort of your magical power/life force). But he was driven insane by the device (or maybe by his obsession with it) and in his insanity, he believes it to be alive and that it speaks to him, encouraging his goals. He plans to use the cube and all the Wakfu stored in it to go back in time and undo his family's death (which he caused). So he's not a big bad villain trying to takeover/destroy/enslave the world, he just wants to undo what happened to his family (and by extension, everything else he has done trying to get them back)
on a side note this makes him extremely ruthless and wont listen to reason, so he's as bad as any other evil antagonists
 

putowtin

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Azure-Supernova said:
Yeah, Kessler from inFamous really comes to mind:

He screwed up his life hard. It took him to lose everything he had to realise what he needed to become to fight back against The Beast, but it was already too late for him. But what he could do was send himself back in time and shape the past Cole into the hardass he needed to be to fight The Beast.

Right up until the end I hated Kessler, never understood his angle or why he was toying with Cole and twisting his life.
thanks to the pair of you for answering this for me!
back to me beer then
 

x EvilErmine x

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Zayle79 said:
x EvilErmine x said:
Your brother from Fable 3

You find out that he was only driving the people so hard because he needed the money to pay for the army and forces that would stand against the shadows that would kill them all. So yeah he was a right bastard but his intentions were good. That's why I let him go in the end
Yeah, but I'm pretty sure he was still evil. Remember his monologue about how if he couldn't have the kingdom, nobody could, and he'd destroy it before he let it be ruled by somebody else? Although, I suppose it could have been an illusion on the part of Teresa to get you to go through with the revolution--I never trusted her since the ending of Fable 2 (she's way too similar to Kreia from KotOR 2 not to keep a close eye on her). Logan didn't seem half as insane when the revolution actually happened.
I think you have a very good point about Teresa, you have to take everything she says/do's with a pinch of salt. I think that she doesn't show you what is actually happening but more what you need to see to put you on the right track. So she's probably on the side of good but then good and bad really do depend very much on your point of view.
 

IckleMissMayhem

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Rheinmetall said:
Sorceress Edea in Final Fantasy VIII, who was at first presented in the game as the ultimate villain. Not only she wasn't evil, but for a short period you could have her fight along with your party. That happened because she was possessed by some demonic power, and somehow she was freed. I don't quite remember the details.
Yup. She was getting possessed by the big bad Ultimecia, "a sorceress from the future" who's evil scheme was compressing all of time to a single instant, thereby destroying the entire wor..yada yada yada... Edea received the powers of a Sorceress in order to prevent them being passed on to one of her adoptive children, and passed thse same powers on to Rinoa for precisely the same reason.

I think you can count any character introduced at the start of an FF game as a candidate for this thread, as so many of them are just poor misunderstood/misguided puppets...

My vote goes for Caius Ballad from FFXIII-2. Also Riku from Kingdom Hearts.
all they want is to protect Yeul (Caius) or Kairi (Riku)
 

waj9876

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The Wicked Witch of the West. Cracked showed me the truth. By all possession rights known to man, those damn ruby slippers belonged to the witch, not the person who KILLED HER SISTER. And she didn't just straight up kill her sister's murderer and looter. She calmly asked for them back. As calmly as you can be when you're talking to the person who KILLED YOUR SISTER.

Now the Good Witch on the other hand. Looted the body, gave the hot/stolen item away, and planned the murder of the only magical competition in Oz. Dorothy even discovered that the Wizard of Oz was a fraud. Which the Good Witch probably knew. And Dorothy didn't even need to kill the witch. She could have just gone home from the start. But the Good Witch didn't tell her until all her competition was either dead or proven as a fraud. Putting innocent people in danger in the process.

TL;DR: The Wicked Witch in The Wizard of Oz. The Good Witch was more the villain.
 

nuba km

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direkiller said:
nuba km said:
3. Talos wasn't a god he was a man who drove the NATIVE elves of skyrim underground in the name of the nords, nearly committing genocide, the native elves were then forced into slavery and blinded by the dwemer turning them into the falmer and now talos is worshiped like a god for it, even though he was just a man.
.
he was accepted as a god by the outer gods

if that dosen't do it oblivion kinda proved he was a god
as you needed the blood of a divine to open a gate to paradise and you used his and i don't think magic rituals to rip open a door to a Dadric lord's summer home work on the wishful thinking of the population.
but the ritual only worked as he was accepted by the gods as a god, he was still a man who was worshiped as a god, but he was accepted as a god because he was worshiped by so many, and he was worshiped by so many for nearly committing genocide. This could be seen as incredibly offensive to be kind of people he killed, imagine if a person nearly committed genocide and this granted him worship to such an extent it was seen as a religion, wouldn't you find that religion incredibly offensive, wouldn't the people that that person nearly committed genocide on have a right to speak out about this and ask ti to be stopped so a mass murder wouldn't be seen as a god.
 

Xannidel

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Ghost Trick: Yomiel

Pokemon Black/White: N

Phoenix Wright: Miles Edgeworth, Godot

Bioshock: Ryan

FF8: Edea and/or Seifer

Infamous: Kessel
 

sageoftruth

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*SPOILER*
I think Dhaos from Tales of Phantasia sort of counts.
Once you finally defeat him for good, the game really tries to make you feel like a bunch of chumps for preventing him from saving his home planet from destruction. In the end, he was simply a well-intentioned hero with abysmal communication skills, and an extremely low regard for the lives of those outside his home planet.
 

pffh

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nuba km said:
direkiller said:
nuba km said:
3. Talos wasn't a god he was a man who drove the NATIVE elves of skyrim underground in the name of the nords, nearly committing genocide, the native elves were then forced into slavery and blinded by the dwemer turning them into the falmer and now talos is worshiped like a god for it, even though he was just a man.
.
he was accepted as a god by the outer gods

if that dosen't do it oblivion kinda proved he was a god
as you needed the blood of a divine to open a gate to paradise and you used his and i don't think magic rituals to rip open a door to a Dadric lord's summer home work on the wishful thinking of the population.
but the ritual only worked as he was accepted by the gods as a god, he was still a man who was worshiped as a god, but he was accepted as a god because he was worshiped by so many, and he was worshiped by so many for nearly committing genocide. This could be seen as incredibly offensive to be kind of people he killed, imagine if a person nearly committed genocide and this granted him worship to such an extent it was seen as a religion, wouldn't you find that religion incredibly offensive, wouldn't the people that that person nearly committed genocide on have a right to speak out about this and ask ti to be stopped so a mass murder wouldn't be seen as a god.
You are confusing Talos with Ysgramor. Talos, also known as Tiber Septim, is the first emperor of the third and current Empire and united all of Tamriel. Ysgramor drove the snow elves underground.

Also lets not forget that Talos is currently literally holding the universe together and is the most popular god in cyrodil.
 

Matt King

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Dandark said:
Don Savik said:
Any Warhammer or 40k game would have you trust in the God Emperor and the Imperium of Man as its riteous guardians of all that is awesome and good.

Wrong.

Orks is best. If you lot fink uddawize I got a tad bit uh *pulls out shoota* persuasion fer ya.


hurr hurr hurr
There is only one faction in the 40k universe that can be considered good, and it is impossible to argue against them as their methods of persuasion are incredibly effective.

best moment when playing warhammer warhammer 40k in a 500pts game (i'm eldar he's necrons) and i have a wraithlord, when he realises he has nothing that can kill it, sooo funny
 

nuba km

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pffh said:
nuba km said:
direkiller said:
nuba km said:
3. Talos wasn't a god he was a man who drove the NATIVE elves of skyrim underground in the name of the nords, nearly committing genocide, the native elves were then forced into slavery and blinded by the dwemer turning them into the falmer and now talos is worshiped like a god for it, even though he was just a man.
.
he was accepted as a god by the outer gods

if that dosen't do it oblivion kinda proved he was a god
as you needed the blood of a divine to open a gate to paradise and you used his and i don't think magic rituals to rip open a door to a Dadric lord's summer home work on the wishful thinking of the population.
but the ritual only worked as he was accepted by the gods as a god, he was still a man who was worshiped as a god, but he was accepted as a god because he was worshiped by so many, and he was worshiped by so many for nearly committing genocide. This could be seen as incredibly offensive to be kind of people he killed, imagine if a person nearly committed genocide and this granted him worship to such an extent it was seen as a religion, wouldn't you find that religion incredibly offensive, wouldn't the people that that person nearly committed genocide on have a right to speak out about this and ask ti to be stopped so a mass murder wouldn't be seen as a god.
You are confusing Talos with Ysgramor. Talos, also known as Tiber Septim, is the first emperor of the third and current Empire and united all of Tamriel. Ysgramor drove the snow elves underground.

Also lets not forget that Talos is currently literally holding the universe together and is the most popular god in cyrodil.
OK I just read up on it and yes I did get those two mixed up, but I am still siding with the imperials as the reason I was against the storm cloaks is because they are racists, also I don't see the imperials ever stop the worship of talos I mean in their main city in skyrim they have a guy in the city center shouting about the glory of talos and the only thing I have seen was the removal of his shrine in the temple and you are saying that is something it is worth causing a war over.
 

pffh

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nuba km said:
pffh said:
nuba km said:
direkiller said:
nuba km said:
3. Talos wasn't a god he was a man who drove the NATIVE elves of skyrim underground in the name of the nords, nearly committing genocide, the native elves were then forced into slavery and blinded by the dwemer turning them into the falmer and now talos is worshiped like a god for it, even though he was just a man.
.
he was accepted as a god by the outer gods

if that dosen't do it oblivion kinda proved he was a god
as you needed the blood of a divine to open a gate to paradise and you used his and i don't think magic rituals to rip open a door to a Dadric lord's summer home work on the wishful thinking of the population.
but the ritual only worked as he was accepted by the gods as a god, he was still a man who was worshiped as a god, but he was accepted as a god because he was worshiped by so many, and he was worshiped by so many for nearly committing genocide. This could be seen as incredibly offensive to be kind of people he killed, imagine if a person nearly committed genocide and this granted him worship to such an extent it was seen as a religion, wouldn't you find that religion incredibly offensive, wouldn't the people that that person nearly committed genocide on have a right to speak out about this and ask ti to be stopped so a mass murder wouldn't be seen as a god.
You are confusing Talos with Ysgramor. Talos, also known as Tiber Septim, is the first emperor of the third and current Empire and united all of Tamriel. Ysgramor drove the snow elves underground.

Also lets not forget that Talos is currently literally holding the universe together and is the most popular god in cyrodil.
OK I just read up on it and yes I did get those two mixed up, but I am still siding with the imperials as the reason I was against the storm cloaks is because they are racists, also I don't see the imperials ever stop the worship of talos I mean in their main city in skyrim they have a guy in the city center shouting about the glory of talos and the only thing I have seen was the removal of his shrine in the temple and you are saying that is something it is worth causing a war over.
I am? Where did I say that? I'm siding with the imperials since a united empire is the worlds only hope against the Thalmor.
 

Rheinmetall

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IckleMissMayhem said:
Yup. She was getting possessed by the big bad Ultimecia, "a sorceress from the future" who's evil scheme was compressing all of time to a single instant, thereby destroying the entire wor..yada yada yada... Edea received the powers of a Sorceress in order to prevent them being passed on to one of her adoptive children, and passed thse same powers on to Rinoa for precisely the same reason.
Yes Ultimecia, correct! The final boss that stopped me from beating the game. :( That left me with a bitter taste.
 

Tuesday Night Fever

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When I played the original Deus Ex, I realized pretty early-on that the NSF Terrorists in the game weren't actually bad guys. If you sneak around a lot you can hear quite a few little snippets of conversation between various NSF members, and I never really got the impression that they were the evil anarchists and baby killers that UNATCO wanted me and the rest of the world to believe they were.

Did they have a few bad apples? Sure. But it sounded like it was mostly due to the fact that the leaders were desperate for help and were far too trusting of anyone offering their services. I believe there was one NPC that lamented how the NSF leadership was offering guns and uniforms to anyone willing to help them, but didn't really take into consideration how many thugs would just take the guns and go nuts with them.