Batman: Arkham Origins: An Unfinishable Example of the Worst in Sequels

Alarien

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Feb 9, 2010
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So, I think we've all heard or read the reviews. Sterling and Yahtzee hated it. Now I feel the need to vent.

Let's start:

I hate Batman.

No, really. I am utterly sick and tired of Batman and have been for most of my adult life, which is... somewhat considerable.

That said, I think Arkham Asylum was a fantastic game. It was polished, the story generally made some semblance of sense in the context of a closed Asylum environment, where all your enemies had been locked up. There were a few minor issues. The boss battles were horrifically stupid and repetitive (i.e. wave 1, wave 2, wave 3 + titan... don't fight the actual boss), and the combat didn't quite flow perfectly (enemies interrupting you in what should have been an uninterruptible slow-motion moment, enemies tracking 20 feet to follow you in free flow, etc).

Arkham City, on the other hand, was as stupid as two brain cells having cocaine sex inside a dirty liquor bottle. The story premise was beyond absurd. All the bad guys in the prison and Asylum get locked up in a portion of closed-off Gotham? Really? (Apparently, there are no female prisoners, other than those at the Asylum, of course) However, Arkham City was a serviceable game with a noticeable improvement to the Asylum system. Combat was much improved and, for a city, everything worked in a way that was completely intuitive. If it looked like I should be able to batclaw/grapnel to it, I could. It was what Assassin's Creed games have been, for the most part, trying to do for years, if AssCreed had better combat. Arkham City was a dumb game, but it was a polished game and for all the inherent idiocy of the characters and plot, it played very well.

And... then comes Arkham Origins.

I am not sure I can finish it. Let me qualify this with the obligatory bullshit: I almost never can't finish a game. I spent countless hours banging my head on Tobal No. 1's Infinite Dungeon. I love the Souls games in NG++(and beyond). I take game challenge as a personal test. However, there are only a few games that I cannot finish, and they are all almost horrifically bad examples of poor gameplay compounded by stupid design flaws. GRAW and Splinter Cell: Conviction come to mind.

The problem with Origins is that it takes everything that worked with AC and breaks it. The combat was broken. The city was broken. The intuitive travel/grapnel was broken. The boss fights, which AC improved over AA on, are just horrific QTE's. Let's consider:

Combat: Counter to what some people say, the free flow combat is NOT back. I realize some people have not played AC in a couple years. I skipped AC until recently, as I knew the story was drek, so I just played it recently. The AC combat flows well. If you use a quick-gadget in combat and then follow with a gadget takedown (i.e. batclaw slam) you cannot be interrupted. If you counter an attack and immediately counter one time, you will not be interrupted. If you attack someone and then properly follow with a critical strike/glide, you will continue attacking/combo-ing. In AO, that is all gone. You are returned to the random broken combat of AA. Attacks like the batclaw slam will routinely either not fire at all (oops, random pellet drop!) or will be interrupted by an enemy attack. Countering an enemy will result in another straight up counter attack on your part. Any attempt to go on the offensive, even one time, will potentially result in a combo interrupting unstoppable attack (MANY times now, I've initiated an attack with NO enemy attacking me only to be hit by an enemy and interrupted after I've started my attack and with no chance to counter).

Also, why is it that Batman (in ALL the games) chooses to NOT glide against enemies wielding guns randomly? Sometimes you can hit them on a glide or batclaw slam and sometimes he just randomly swings in their general direction (regardless of his combo multiplier/freeflow), breaking his attack combo? This is despite having the exact same animation for the batclaw pull or any other attack at the same moment. The only difference is that the enemy you intend to attack/glide/slam is wielding a gun? Makes no sense.

Travel: So, as I said, I AA/AC if you think you could climb/grapnel to it, you could. This was consistent almost throughout the games. Yet in Batman: AO, ledges that should be reasonably hit with the claw, you just can't. Why? CNHNLLGE! (sorry, old DAOC joke from Bedevere server). Generally, it works only where intended and, the rest of the time, the devs didn't want you using an intuitive skill, so they just made it not work. It makes the travel/grapnel completely random and the travel becomes tedious.

Boss Fights: Wow were these bad in AA and, wow, were these cleaned up a lot in AC. Not perfect, mind you, but AC was, mostly a big improvement. And then AO comes along and we get "Fight random horde of crap (Copperhead)" or "Predator kill random horde of crap (Deadshot)," that are almost no different from any other encounter in the the normal game. Or, worse, we get a boring QTE event like Slade, or a random buggy junk encounter like the first Joker/Bane, where Bane might hit you or might not with his tracking, almost unavoidable bullshit charge. And let's not discuss the attempts of both AC and AO to recreate the almost perfect Scarecrow encounters of AA using the Mad Hatter. Frankly, a boss fight should be against a boss. If you can't figure out how to make a boss unique and interesting in an encounter, he shouldn't be a boss or mini-boss.

-And that brings me, inevitably, to the story. The most horrifying part of my problem with AO. I actually really like the story. That's the problem. I find the story of AA to be passable and the story of AC to be absurdly stupid, but the story of AO is almost compelling. The characters and development of Batman and Joker are almost engaging. It is a huge leg-up on the previous crap that came before, and that's what makes this game so frustrating. I want to know what happens, but the gameplay itself is such a frustrating step back, that I am not sure I can bother myself to bring the game to its conclusion.

Shame on you, games industry for continuing to push money driven sequels that lessen the experience of previous games and shame on us for buying them. (Note: my game was free with my purchase of a new Nvidia GTX 760, so I didn't, and wouldn't, pay for this crap)

It's time to ask if a game needs and deserves a sequel and, if that's the case, see that it gets into the hands of people who make it worthwhile. If you're in doubt: review the Bioshock series for what makes a bad sequel (2) and what makes a good one (Infinite).
 

RJ 17

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Nov 27, 2011
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Alarien said:
Arkham City, on the other hand, was as stupid as two brain cells having cocaine sex inside a dirty liquor bottle. The story premise was beyond absurd. All the bad guys in the prison and Asylum get locked up in a portion of closed-off Gotham? Really? (Apparently, there are no female prisoners, other than those at the Asylum, of course)
Personally I think that people give AC's story a bit of a bad wrap. I don't know if you read/listened to all the extra story stuff in the BatProfiles for all the characters, but the story makes sense in a comicbooky kind of way. Hugo Strange uses his powers of manipulation and mind control - which were refined and perfected thanks to Mad Hatter's help back at the Asylum - to make the mayor of the city his puppet. With that in hand, and the massive resources of the League of Assassin's behind him, he's able to get the go-ahead to build Arkham City. He then uses his influence over the mayor to basically give himself unlimited jurisdiction and power to do basically whatever the hell he wanted with his Tyger guard mercenaries. Sounds like a comic book plot if you ask me.

The rest of your post, though, I agree with completely...but you forgot some bits to complain about. :p

Like here, you forgot to mention how restrictive the level-up system is. You don't get the Disarm-Destroy special combo until damn near the end of the game...which is just ridiculous seeing as how it's one of the first abilities - and one of the most useful ones - that you can unlock in the previous games. Oh, but it's alright, because you can get the Thermal Canceling Cape as like, your 3rd upgrade...LONG before the Predator room guys are even using thermal goggles.

And speaking of Disarm-Destroy, there's the little issue of targeting priority. This, for me, was one of the most frustrating aspects. In the past, Disarm-Destroy worked on a priority system. You'd point in the direction of the guy you were wanting to use the move on and Batman would go after the weapon with the highest threat in that direction. For instance, if there's a guy with a shield and a guy with a gun to the right, you'll go after the guy with the gun. Not in this game, though, you'll always go after the closest guy with a weapon, regardless of what direction you're pointing. Sure, there's two guys dancing around in the back with guns that they're in the process of loading up, but that guy two feet to the left with a baseball bat CLEARLY has the most dangerous weapon.

And since you liked complaining about the batclaw, I might as well mention that it suffers from targeting priority failure as well. Used to be you'd shoot it at the closest guy in the direction you're pointing, making it a good move to counter someone you see charging up to hit you: you grab'em, pull'em, clothes-line'em. Cancels out their attack. In this game, you always go for the FARTHEST enemy in the direction you're pointing (assuming he actually fires it in the direction you're pointing and doesn't just, you know, fire it at thin air). Meaning that guy charging up to you gets to punch you in the face because your claw went right by him and got the guy dancing around behind him.

Another thing you forgot to mention about the combat is how the game seems to have an absolute fetish with forcing you to fight in obscenely close quarters. One of the things about the Free Flow Combat is that it tends to work better if there's room for the enemies to spread out, allowing you to bounce from one hit to another. Not in this game, though, you'll fight 10 guys on a frickin' postage stamp. After one of the Crimescene Investigation bits, you have to chase down a dirty cop. Turns out he's standing on a tiny sub-roof of a building that - in the real world - couldn't be larger than 8 feet by 10 feet. On that roof with him is a martial artist, an armored enforcer, and another random cop. Yeah, THAT was a fun fight...

To be fair, it sounds like you've stopped playing and this only happens later on in the game, but after a while damn near every roof in the southern areas of the map have snipers on them making navigating them extremely tedious. Seriously, don't use the Fast Travel systems unless you wanna take a sniper bullet in your BatAss.

And yeah, it really is a pain that, for some completely arbitrary reason, they just said "Nope, you're not getting on top of that building. Why? Because we said so" or "Nope, you're not getting up onto that ledge that's 5 feet above your head and clearly should be able to be grapnelled to. Why? Because there's a Riddler box up there and that'd make it too easy to get to."

Boss Fights
Pretty much agree with you here, I'd say you just about covered everything. Especially the Bane fights. The problem is that the camera keeps focused on him, so when you try to Batdodge out of the way of his charge, you can never dodge away in a straight line, you always end up curving TOWARDS him as the camera moves to keep him centered. 9 times out of 10 this results in you getting trampled. The other 1 time out of 10 is when he just up and decides that he wants to make a 90 degree turn and run your ass over even when you do pull off a successful dodge. God forbid they let you Batflip OVER him as he's charging towards you. No, again, that'd make it too fucking easy, wouldn't it? So yeah, fuck Bane and fuck the Bane fights in this game.

As for the Hatter, ehhhhhh, that was actually one of the bits that I enjoyed. I thought it was indeed pretty obvious that they were trying to capture the magic of the Scarecrow bits from Asylum, and personally I thought they did a decent job at it. :p


-And that brings me, inevitably, to the story.
Eh, I found the story to be one of the bigger shortcomings of the game. None of the assassin's have ANY build-up whatsoever. Electrocutioner is literally a joke, Croc is the boss of the tutorial mission, so he's out early. Deathstroke literally shows up out of nowhere, you beat his ass, and he's done. Same with Copperhead and Deadshot, but he doesn't even show up, you've gotta go to him. Bane is the only one that has some buildup and story, but that's because he turns out to be the final boss fight (after you kick his ass twice already). Shiva might as well have not even bothered showing up. And you'd think for a pyromaniac with a jet-pack, Firefly would have been a bit more noticeable in his hunt for Batman...apparently not. Seems he was just waiting his turn the whole night.

Beyond that, it seemed like the story itself was much more about the origins of The Joker rather than the origins of Batman.
 

Alarien

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I haven't gotten disarm-destroy yet and I am utterly furious about it. The level up system, being heavily restricted in Origins as opposed to City is utterly obnoxious.

Also, completely agree with you that the combat all takes place on a postage stamp. Further compounded by the fact that, in that postage stamp, the camera tends to get stuck on a wall, rather than pan around to where you can see anything. City did this very well, for the most part.
 

King Billi

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You honestly don't seem to have a very high opinion for any of these games, even the praise you have for Arkham Asylum and Arkham City seems very strained as though you're annoyed at having to concede that they are good at all.


Anyway "counter" again to what you say I personally consider the combat to be fine, as good as it ever was in fact. I really don't get what the issues people seem to be having with it? I played both Arkham Asylum and Arkham City before this was released and I don't see any noticable difference between the combat in this and Arkham City.

The only issue I have with t is that the quickfire gadgets aren't as good or as useful as they were in City, throwing a batarang is easy and I had no trouble performing the batclaw slam like you seem to but the other gadgets really weren't worth bothering with at all. I actually think using the concussion blast on people in a fight makes them more of a threat when they're thrashing around stunned than they are normally.


I didn't have any trouble with travel and I actually think the larger size of the map in Arkham Origins made continuous gliding easier and much more fun.
Overall I think the map is way better than that in Arkham City, I liked actually seeing the same locations from that game but from an earlier time and I liked the wide open views of the water surrounding each area, really just being in Gotham City proper rather than another prison environment was good enough for me.


The story I think is leagues ahead of the story in Arkham City even though it did start rather aimless and meandering, once the story picked up however and the twists and turns start happening it got very interesting very quickly and eventually I was excited and anxious with how it was all going end.
It was certainly more engaging than Arkham City and I really liked how the sidequests and other missions were better interwoven with the larger story even when they were little more than destroying a set number of items around the city or capturing escaped criminals.


Honestly I was not disappointed by this game at all and I'd almost go so far as to call it superior to Arkham City as it really is in alot of ways. The only thing which keeps me from doing that though are the reports of gamebreaking bugs that I've heard about from other players and reviewers. I played the game on PS3 and didn't encounter any of the problems other people did but the fact that they exist for so many people can't be dismisssed. I feel that if only this game was little more polished it would compare more favourably to the previous two.
I don't consider it cheap though or an undeserving sequel, this was a story and an experience which I thoroughly enjoyed and I'm still interested to see what will come next for this franchise.


Oh and I also LOVE Batman so maybe I can't be trusted to give an unbiased opinion.
 

bug_of_war

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Nov 30, 2012
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Alarien said:
Heh, if you hate Batman so much then why did you even play these games? Like, the way you describe it is as though you are completely livid with everything involving Batman, so why are you playing the games? I hate Gordon Freeman but I never thought, "Yeah, I'mma play Half Life 2 and the other games in the series" so it's just utterly baffling why you even picked up the first Arkham game.

But hey, if you like bashing your head against a wall that's your thing.

For the most part I have no reason to say you are wrong or right, haven't played Origins and wont for a while. Interesting comparison between Assassin's Creed and Arkham's movement systems, not sure if I agree completely but again each their own.