Batman: The Killing Joke Animated Film Adaptation Announced

[WonkyWarmaiden]

DC really does have a massive boner for The Killing Joke, don't they.

It's one of the most highly regarded stories in their history.

Plus Marvel already beat them to the punch, again, in caving to the SJW crowd, so while DC Super Hero Girls is still a thing that's happening, they might just as well try scoring some points with the long-time fans.

What? How did Marvel cave? By having female characters featured more prominently in their comics and movies? Dear God, surely the world shall end because there are more women in a comic than men! Not like the opposite has been true for the last 80 years or anything.

Please relax, it's perfectly fine for people to be annoyed at obvious tokenism and pandering.

Just because someone is cynical about why Marvel is introducing Generic Gender-Bent or Diversity Flag Carrier Super Hero #200230 this month doesn't mean they are afraid of getting girl cooties in their comic books, it just means that they believe Marvel as a business is being cynical themselves. After all, if they were truly invested in diversity, they'd hire more diverse comic book creators instead of just gender/race swapping existing heroes. I don't know about you, but I was actually offended when they "promoted" Falcon to Captain America. It felt to me like Marvel was sending the message that the only way they could have a black character headline a book was if the white character got out of the way for them and it was in my perception a very cynical move on their part.

It's a really convenient straw man to pretend that people are actually upset about the make-up/gender/race of comic book characters when clearly that's not the issue that people have. We are simply taking umbrage with the bald faced cynicism and pandering on behalf of the companies that are producing tripe like She-Thor instead of say, putting Valkyrie in her own book. That's what annoys people - when Marvel ignores characters that are fully developed like X-23, and then put her in Wolverines costume and call her the "All New-Wolverine" simply because they believe people won't buy a book titled "X-23: Totally derivative of wolverine, but has boobs."

So, while some people may want to applaud these moves for the sake of "diversity" all I see is creative bankruptcy, pandering, and changes that will get ret-conned whenever the next fad takes hold. Extrapolating that into "OMG STOP BEING AFRAID OF GURLS" is just intellectually dishonest. No one is afraid of girls in their comic books, they just don't have any respect for the way it's being done.

Sorry sorry, my default tone is sarcastic asshole. I get what you mean. It does suck that women and other under represented groups have to be shoved into pre-made roles and can't have their own comics, while also getting rid of the characters that people enjoy just for the sake of diversity. Of course sometimes that's the only way to get other genders or races into comics.

It's all a big case of overcompensation and creators not realizing there are untapped audiences out there and hopefully it will eventually even out. Then everyone will be happy,right? Eh, probably not.

 

[Jeyl]

I'd hate to be on the opposite side of everyone looking forward to this, but I'm getting a little impatient with DC animation not doing anything for their female characters. The fact that their next one is the story that cripples Barbara Gordon (Batgirl) just so they can glorify how awesomely committed Batman and Gordon are to their jobs just comes off as bad taste.

This the event that lead to her becoming Oracle, it's arguably the important event in Barbara Gordon's life. Though her reaction and recovery are not in the story, so that does take away a bit.

And Oracle > Batgirl in every way. Oracle defeats far more bad guys with just her mind, than she ever does as Batgirl.

As others have said I hope they play down the Gordon part. They did get pretty adult with Quinn in Assault on Arkham.

Problem with these movies animated movies is that they all tend to be made as stand alone pieces with no connection to previous works outside of the brand. So no matter how much you may be jumping for joy about the idea of Barbara becoming the Orcale, we will most likely never see that because Bruce Timm will be moving on to his other project that has nothing to do with this one.

Story in short... Batman and Gordon remain head strong at the expense of Barbara. Well done.

 

[FPLOON]

So, what, more Joker stuff?

They seriously need to make batman get like, a 2 year joker-break or something...guy is wayyyy overused

They tried to do that with Beware the Batman, by focusing on lesser known villains like Anarky and Professor Pyg.

Of course, people didn't approve, and so they started to bring in more established villains like Ra's al Ghul and Killer Croc into the show. Joker never appeared in the cartoon, but my point is, some tried to use other villains, and in the end they failed.

Wait... I thought the failings of Beware The Batman were, in part, because of "executive meddling" for the DC Nation block... which caused the rest of the episodes after Episode 10(?)[footnote]Where more well-known villains other than the most common ones were getting, at least, one episode in the spotlight...[/footnote], I think, to not get aired on CN of North America until Toonami got a hold of them... Then again, Toonami couldn't continue to show it one episode at a time because they were loosing the right to air it in general, so they marathoned the rest of the episodes back when they had a bigger timeblock to do so...

Then again, this could just be the general "blame Teen Titans Go!" reason in some way, shape, or form...

OT: If this doesn't end up with a R-rating or even a director's cut, since there's probably going to be a few changes somehow, I'm going to be raising a few eyebrows...

Other than that, Mark Hamill better, at least, be in it as the Joker himself...

 

[TheDoctor455]

Hmm... sounds promising. Hopefully this "prologue" will mostly be previous battles between Batman and the Joker... with these battles getting progressively bloodier as the Joker becomes more violent and psychotic... both to reflect how he changed over time in the comics... and to hammer home just how monstrous the Joker can really be...

to serve as a reminder and contrast to certain key events in this story.

Also... for those criticizing this adaptation for what it does to Barbara Gordon... they didn't just use this to "show how committed Batman and Gordon" are... they used it to really turn her character around. For years prior to this event, she was just another throwaway sidekick for the most part, almost completely interchangeable with any of the Robins... except, ya know... she's a girl and was there at least partly to keep the homophobes from busting a gut.

After this event... her recovery and overall reaction to what happened here was nothing short of inspiring... and in fact... she became instrumental in taking down a number of villains (sometimes on her own) with just her mind and whatever resources she could manage to get a hold of.

And then there was the No Man's Land event... where she was arguably more important that Batman himself in Gotham's recovery.

 

[mecegirl]

Hmm... sounds promising. Hopefully this "prologue" will mostly be previous battles between Batman and the Joker... with these battles getting progressively bloodier as the Joker becomes more violent and psychotic... both to reflect how he changed over time in the comics... and to hammer home just how monstrous the Joker can really be...

to serve as a reminder and contrast to certain key events in this story.

Also... for those criticizing this adaptation for what it does to Barbara Gordon... they didn't just use this to "show how committed Batman and Gordon" are... they used it to really turn her character around. For years prior to this event, she was just another throwaway sidekick for the most part, almost completely interchangeable with any of the Robins... except, ya know... she's a girl and was there at least partly to keep the homophobes from busting a gut.

After this event... her recovery and overall reaction to what happened here was nothing short of inspiring... and in fact... she became instrumental in taking down a number of villains (sometimes on her own) with just her mind and whatever resources she could manage to get a hold of.

And then there was the No Man's Land event... where she was arguably more important that Batman himself in Gotham's recovery.

Actually that was a happy accident. If not for John Ostrander and Kim Yale she would have never gotten a second shot. They weren't planning on using her in the Batman books anymore after the Killing Joke and only reincorporated her into the Batman books after she was used well in the Suicide Squad Books. So don't say they, DC proper did nothing but take credit afterwards.

 

[TravelerSF]

For those excited about this project, I can HIGHLY recommend this 3D animated Joker's monologue as an appetizer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC16orUje4M

As for the movie itself, I've been waiting this for a long time. It's one of the best Batman stories out there and can be perfectly adapted into a single movie.

For those complaining about Barbara Gordon, I'd want to say this: This story is not about Batman. It's about the Joker. Alan Moore wrote one of the most horrible, despicable versions of him by making him do just disgusting things to Barbara. If feel bad about that, good, you should, that's the point. That's what scary about this story, the idea that everyone can become something that horrible just after one bad day.

 

[EternallyBored]

For those excited about this project, I can HIGHLY recommend this 3D animated Joker's monologue as an appetizer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC16orUje4M

As for the movie itself, I've been waiting this for a long time. It's one of the best Batman stories out there and can be perfectly adapted into a single movie.

For those complaining about Barbara Gordon, I'd want to say this: This story is not about Batman. It's about the Joker. Alan Moore wrote one of the most horrible, despicable versions of him by making him do just disgusting things to Barbara. If feel bad about that, good, you should, that's the point. That's what scary about this story, the idea that everyone can become something that horrible just after one bad day.

Wait what? Killing Joke is not about how anyone can become like the joker after one bad day, he was wrong in the end, Commissioner Gordon didn't break and maintained his sanity and moral code, barring some fan theories about the comic as a stand alone where Batman kills the Joker at the end, Batman didn't go crazy(ier) either. The end showed that Joker and Batman were their own breed of screwed up, Batman got the joke but didn't break from his one bad day (his parents death) the same way the Joker did, but a normal person like Gordon couldn't be broken by the Joker in the end.

That, and it kind of requires historical context, because at this point, Joker in the Killing Joke is pretty mild compared to a lot of his portrayals in the 90's and 2000's, it was a shockingly dark portrayal in the 80's, but nowadays would be considered downright lighthearted compared to the Joker from the last 15 years or so.

Even Moore admits that he regrets the way he wrote Barbara in the comic, not that she got hurt, or even that she shouldn't have been shot, but that a hero with her own history and fans basically got gunned down by authorial fiat with no real fanfare or reason in the greater canon, it was a cheap copout scene that he's admitted he could've written better. That we got Oracle out of the aftermath is a plus, but it was a weak spot, especially for Batgirl fans, which admittedly there weren't a ton of, in an otherwise great story.

Killing Joke is a good story about the Joker failing to break Commissioner Gordon and looking into his own twisted psyche, somewhat lessened by time as the shock isn't nearly as effective as it was when it was originally written. It deserves the majority of the praise it gets, but it is not a story without flaws.

 

[Grahav]

Well, it already started;

The Batman cover wasn't redone out of censorship by SJWs, but simply because the art team though it could be done better.


Assault on Arkham was a pretty brutal film, so I'm not worried about DC toning down content.

I don't believe neither in DC or in Jim. It is easier to change a cover to pander than to change a whole production.

What? How did Marvel cave? By having female characters featured more prominently in their comics and movies? Dear God, surely the world shall end because there are more women in a comic than men! Not like the opposite has been true for the last 80 years or anything.

First. So what? You don't see men demanding representation on romance novels or rom-coms. People are different, why all the shit has always to be 50/50?

Second. There are a lot of female characters, yaoi and such in mangas, and their fandom doesn't ***** about it. Why? Because artists don't need to parasite the popularity of established characters by turning them female or male to pander. They create their own. Notice also that the female consumers buy mangas with genres and art distinctly different from males.

Besides, all this diversity stunt? Done already and the feminists still don't care about reading comics. They care about complaining and having their demands obliged.

 

[Gorrath]

Yay, more Batman, the least interesting superhero around.

I feel safe in disagreeing. Wolverine is a thousand times less interesting than Batman. They are both equally over-exposed though.

It's not like there's this whole League of other characters each of whom could have their own movie or anything. Double yay for the story Moore thought went too far until he was told to cripple the ***** forever and ever while every other character got to move on with their lives because DC just has this inherent hate for Batgirl in all its iterations.

Some, myself included, see Oracle as by far the best iteration of her character. I'm not sure what you mean by "every other character got to move on with their lives." Barbara moved on too by dealing with her condition and continuing the good fight. Not only did she become more "powerful" by becoming Oracle, she also gave people with similar injuries a hero they could look up to. For people who enjoy diversity in comic book characters, Oracle > Batgirl any day of the week. Her getting shot was the best thing to ever happen to the character.

Also some whining about how Marvel decided that instead of replacing some of their heroes with another white man, they thought about having some black people and women be superheroes. Because it's fine if a character retires and passes on his title to someone else, but only if they have the same skin tone and genitals.

Whining of that kind is irksome, I agree.

 

[Gorrath]

I feel safe in disagreeing. Wolverine is a thousand times less interesting than Batman. They are both equally over-exposed though.

To be fair, I for some reason never really consider the X-Men when superheroes come up, which I guess fits the Marvel universe considering how the standard citizen generally has no problem with superheroes... unless they got their powers from mutations, then they're monsters and we need to be bigots. That said, you're right, Wolverine is a thousand times less interesting now that I consider him, it's just incredible overexposure and the constant treatment of him as the greatest thing ever.

On that you and I can agree. The over-exposure of Batman really does beat you over the head after a while. IN that way, Batman is the Wolverine of the DC universe. I tend to like him more when they do something novel with him like "The Brave and the Bold." So far, I've rather liked him in the new Justice League animated movies, probably because we don't spend all our time watching him brood. He's way more interesting when he's not just punching the bad guys and has to play on a team. That's just one man's opinion though.

Some, myself included, see Oracle as by far the best iteration of her character. I'm not sure what you mean by "every other character got to move on with their lives." Barbara moved on too by dealing with her condition and continuing the good fight. Not only did she become more "powerful" by becoming Oracle, she also gave people with similar injuries a hero they could look up to. For people who enjoy diversity in comic book characters, Oracle > Batgirl any day of the week. Her getting shot was the best thing to ever happen to the character.

While I can't speak to what is the best iteration of her character, I do have to ask how many other characters of DC or Marvel who are injured stay permanently injured forever? While in a world filled with magic and advanced technology that could probably fix her instantly if Batman in his infinite wealth and connections bothered to ask someone to?

Not many, to be sure, but that's what makes her more interesting. The story really WOULD have been crap if they just fixed her and she went back to being girl-batman. Since she does stay injured, we instead get to see her deal with her new disability, overcome it, continue to be a hero and a more effective one at that and she gets to be an icon that shows just because you don't have use of your legs or arms or other faculty doesn't mean you too can't be heroic. I would think having a disabled hero would be something people who like diversity in their characters would find appealing. Can you honestly say that the character would be more interesting if she just got fixed right back up with magic or super-science and went back to being part of the Bat-family? If you do think so, I'm genuinely curious as to why. Even if cannon says it should have been possible, I don't see how it would have been good or fun or interesting to do it.

 

[Gorrath]

Not many, to be sure, but that's what makes her more interesting. The story really WOULD have been crap if they just fixed her and she went back to being girl-batman. Since she does stay injured, we instead get to see her deal with her new disability, overcome it, continue to be a hero and a more effective one at that and she gets to be an icon that shows just because you don't have use of your legs or arms or other faculty doesn't mean you too can't be heroic. I would think having a disabled hero would be something people who like diversity in their characters would find appealing. Can you honestly say that the character would be more interesting if she just got fixed right back up with magic or super-science and went back to being part of the Bat-family? If you do think so, I'm genuinely curious as to why. Even if cannon says it should have been possible, I don't see how it would have been good or fun or interesting to do it.

I'm all for diversity, and I'll believe you when it comes to the comparison between hypothetical Batgirl and Oracle in terms of quality (though the new iteration seems to be doing well enough), because I'm not familiar enough with it to comment personally. Oracle might be the greatest thing ever on all counts, it's just a bit weird and iffy (and it will always be weird and iffy) to note that for all the other miraculous things, for Batman getting his back broken only to be fine later, for Jason Todd being brought back as the Red Hood, for this or that universe reboot or alternate dimension or any other thing that comics do, Barbara is always crippled.

That it happened as a sudden ambush and not even as part of her own story but as a part of Gordon and Batman's, as opposed to having a fight with Bane or as part of some big event like Todd's death, doesn't help.

I admit it's strange within the universe since it seems like there should be a dozen ways to fix it but I suspend disbelief because of the good it does/did for the character and story. The only other DC hero I can think of off the top of my head with a disability that doesn't go away is Dr. Mid-Nite who's blind if I recall correctly. I'm not overly concerned with how Barbara's disability came along; The Killing Joke is good all on its own and the subsequent characterization and struggle of Barbara after the fact is good so I don't see any issue with it, the motivations/attitudes of the DC staff toward her notwithstanding.

It's interesting to note that Marvel appears to have a better track record on this sort of thing though. Daredevil's blind, Hawkeye's partially deaf, Xavier's is Xavier, Puck with dwarfism caused by I think achondroplasty (I ignore that stupid demon thing they did). I'm sure there's lots more, that's just what I could think of off the top of my head. Barbara's one of the few who does not have powers that simply make her disability a non-issue and so in that way I find her even more admirable and interesting. I can see why some might take issue with how or why it happened but it doesn't bother me at all; the story was good and good things came from it. To each their own I suppose.

 

[TheDoctor455]

Hmm... sounds promising. Hopefully this "prologue" will mostly be previous battles between Batman and the Joker... with these battles getting progressively bloodier as the Joker becomes more violent and psychotic... both to reflect how he changed over time in the comics... and to hammer home just how monstrous the Joker can really be...

to serve as a reminder and contrast to certain key events in this story.

Also... for those criticizing this adaptation for what it does to Barbara Gordon... they didn't just use this to "show how committed Batman and Gordon" are... they used it to really turn her character around. For years prior to this event, she was just another throwaway sidekick for the most part, almost completely interchangeable with any of the Robins... except, ya know... she's a girl and was there at least partly to keep the homophobes from busting a gut.

After this event... her recovery and overall reaction to what happened here was nothing short of inspiring... and in fact... she became instrumental in taking down a number of villains (sometimes on her own) with just her mind and whatever resources she could manage to get a hold of.

And then there was the No Man's Land event... where she was arguably more important that Batman himself in Gotham's recovery.

Actually that was a happy accident. If not for John Ostrander and Kim Yale she would have never gotten a second shot. They weren't planning on using her in the Batman books anymore after the Killing Joke and only reincorporated her into the Batman books after she was used well in the Suicide Squad Books. So don't say they, DC proper did nothing but take credit afterwards.

Fair enough.

Though there is another point worth considering... (and this is for people not liking this development for Barbara Gordon in general, not just you)
according to Alan Moore... she wasn't raped.

And this isn't him caving to pressure and back-pedaling on something either... because A) its Alan Moore and he doesn't care about controversy or losing money (he deliberately lost out on millions just to make a point), and B) he said that while Barbara's scene shouldn't be seen as her being raped... he did say that the bit where Gordon was shown being stripped naked... was ALSO him being raped.

So there's that.

Still a dicey subject... but this was some of Alan Moore's best work... and he never does anything lightly. (hell read some of his comic scripts and he basically leaves no room for the artist to interpret anything... every detail is described exactly as it appears in the panel)

Though again... isn't it better that DC let them go that direction with Barbara after Killing Joke was over? They could've said no, shut them down... or made it purely a one-issue deal... even after it proved to be a popular decision (DC and Marvel both have a history of doing stupid things with their characters, even when fans really, really wish they wouldn't.)

Yes, the scene where this happens is unpleasant, and hard to deal with... but that's kind of the point. It isn't meant to be pleasant, it isn't meant to be taken lightly, and even in the story it happens in... it isn't a throw-away scene. The story really does not work as well without it.

And again... Oracle happened as a result.

And for those complaining that they aren't doing any female character focused animated movies... umm... take a look at what else they have lined up for next year.

There's an original story called Batman: Bad Blood which will introduce Batwoman (a lesbian) into the animated DCU, which while it is a shame that she doesn't get the whole thing to herself... its still a positive step in the right direction.

And there's Justice League vs. the Teen Titans... both super teams feature prominent, heroic female characters... some of which were arguably better at being superheroes than some of the guys are a lot of the time (even Batman and Superman).

Again... not entirely focused on the female characters, but both are steps in the right direction if nothing else. And while it wasn't a good movie... DC did greenlight the Catwoman movie... female character focused movie very, very loosely based on an actual character... and of course... Catwoman done right was one of the few good things about The Dark Knight Rises.

So again... not quite what people may be hoping for... but steps in the right direction.

Which is more than can be said of Marvel... who have yet to even announce a movie focused on a female character, let alone already have on released. Seriously... they're reaching as far down the barrel as friggin' ANT-MAN long before they make a Black Widow or She-Hulk movie.